Is this ragwort?
- Thread starter AWinter
- Start date
meleeka
Well-Known Member
It looks like it to me. Iād bin the hay. Itās not worth the risk imo.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Thanks, would you expect compensation from the farmer? I have 4 big bales of this only been feeding it two weeks.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Get him to refund and take it back.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Google images says it's Smooth Hawksbeard but I have no idea!
Lady Jane
Well-Known Member
I don't think its ragwort but would consult an expert to be sure
Petalpoos
Well-Known Member
I donāt think itās ragwort. Looks l like a hawks beard or similar, as above. I wouldnāt be going round complaining to the farmer and I would keep feeding it.
holeymoley
Well-Known Member
It's certainly very similar. Are there any leafs on the stem?
AWinter
Well-Known Member
So interesting thanks everyone, Iāve joined one of those plant identification expert groups on Facebook, what a great idea.
I just messaged the farmer politely with the photo and asked if he was able to identify it as I was worried it might be rag. I have been so panicked
Iāve been struggling to find suitable hay for months
I just messaged the farmer politely with the photo and asked if he was able to identify it as I was worried it might be rag. I have been so panicked
Iāve been struggling to find suitable hay for monthsLucky Snowball
Well-Known Member
Difficult from a photo but Iād say not ragwort.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know where I can find a plant expert? The Facebook group just seems to be general people and Iāve just got a ālooks like ragā answer, which may be totally valid but I want to be sure.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
another photo if it helps
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
I opened this thread certain Iād know the answer but itās actually quite hard to tell isnāt it!
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Ok I have more opinions to add to the mix, my dad thinks itās too small for ragwort, if you open the first photo you can see my hand for scale, thoughts?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I donāt think it is but caution is best because itās hard tell from a photo.
I would be checking it carefully .
I would be checking it carefully .
Midlifecrisis
Well-Known Member
I donāt think it is because the flowers in your photo have a soft silky seed material and ragwort flowers tend to be flatter and open with smaller individual petals around a daisy like centre..if any of that makes sense.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Thank you I will be checking it very carefully, Iād already filled and soaked 8 nets tonight and I tipped them all out and went through it. Iām not sure what to do at this point as I have Ā£200 worth of big bale hay sat there, I donāt want to throw it away when itās not even rag.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
My dad is convinced it isnāt heās been researching all evening bless him, he says itās too small and the seeds sit in a cup or something? Whereas rag seeds are like a globe
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
It doesn't look like ragwort to me either I also think it looks too small.
Don't throw it get on to the farmer and speak to him about it.
My hay supplier will change or refund for any of his hay.
Don't throw it get on to the farmer and speak to him about it.
My hay supplier will change or refund for any of his hay.
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
Dead definitely ragwort for comparison
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
and the stems - ridged and a purple colour
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this my dad is now convinced this isnāt rag, weāre sat here with the plant in our hands comparing the seed heads
Leafcutter
Active Member
Just be aware that there is also Marsh Ragwort, which is a smaller plant with slightly larger, less clustered flowers, but with finer stems and a looser habit than normal ragwort. We have it where I am, itās just as poisonous as the common type.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
I use this group for identifying plants. They're very good.
www.facebook.com
ETA: No idea why it's Chinese on here!
ē»å½ Facebook
ē»å½ Facebookļ¼äø儽åć家äŗŗå认čÆēäŗŗåäŗ«åå»ŗē«čē³»ć
www.facebook.com
ETA: No idea why it's Chinese on here!
meleeka
Well-Known Member
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Hawkbeard flowers have a curved stem to each flower, whereas ragwort have a definite V-shaped stemming pattern. But this could be hard to id in a dried old plant stored in hay and has been mangled by the hay tedding and baling process.
The ribbed nature of your stems concern me, and the reddish-purpleish tinge- that is a common feature of most ragworts, although fresher ragwort dried will still retain more green ribbed stems. More mature ragwort stems tends to colour purple.
The underneath of the flowers has that spiked blackened flower shape - ragwort definitely has that featured when its fully dried and old stored in hay.
The best identifier is if you can find any of those flower heads of weeds with some leaves at the top just below the flower heads. Ragwort has some single crinkle-edged leaves growing up there, whereas hawksbeard generally doesnt, unless its very mature. The leaf shapes are different.
Hawksbeard doesnt have so many tight clusters of flowers as ragwort does. The first pic you posted shows your finger tips for size comparison, and going by that, iād say that small stem head has a lot of flowers on it for hawksbeard, and am leaning to identify it as ragwort.
Ragwort has ācupsā the seeds all sit in when mature and dried.
If you dampen the weed and crush it vigorously with gloved hands, does it pong, like almost a urine smellā¦an unpleasant acrid smell?
Ragwort absolutely stinks when fresh and crushedā¦.if you soak it to soften it in warm water, then remove from water and and really crush the cr*p out of it!ā¦ then get close and smell, if its really off-putting, its ragwort.
The trouble with accurate i.d is that both weeds considered in your case are both very changeable in appearance depending on age. 1 year old ragwort and hawksbeard are much slenderer than older root systems. If your hay is from a field infested with old root systems of either, but mowed every year - youāll get small but stocky examples of both flower stems.
The only real way to fully tell them apart (aside from smell) would be if you could find some stems with some kind of leaf attached. The multi-lobed, sharp edged ragwort leaves are unmistakable.
The leaves when very dry and prone to crushing and breaking-off - but if you really search the bale slowly peeling off the hay, to slowly pull out one flower head, and search for evidence of leaves in that spot - we have a chance of 100% sure i.d.
But as its (potentially) ragwort, and considering the damage that does to livers - permanent damage, i definitely lean towards being more cautious.
Unfortunately horses will eat dried ragwort but most of them wont eat fresh - the fresh smell is just yuck, dissipating when dreid and old in hay. So we cant rely on them eating it dried in hay to give us any indication if its safe.
If you are finding 1 small stem like picture 1 in 2 turns of a round bale, iād simply pull out and any surrounding hay, and soak/feed the rest. But if youāre finding stems every foot of hay, dotted everywhere, hold-off from feeding until 100% accurate i.d can be established.
Leaf shape will secure a good i.d.
Sorry its an ambiguous answer, ive been where you are and know the anguish..and have thrown tonnes of toxic hay out. My very first bought batch of hay was absolutely full each flake of cats ear!
If this is the only hay you have and need feed now, then all you can do is to search through it all pulling away the weed with surrounding hay, and feed whats āweed freeā. Its a tedious job i know, but if today you need food and cant get anything else until the next day, its best to play it safe.
The ribbed nature of your stems concern me, and the reddish-purpleish tinge- that is a common feature of most ragworts, although fresher ragwort dried will still retain more green ribbed stems. More mature ragwort stems tends to colour purple.
The underneath of the flowers has that spiked blackened flower shape - ragwort definitely has that featured when its fully dried and old stored in hay.
The best identifier is if you can find any of those flower heads of weeds with some leaves at the top just below the flower heads. Ragwort has some single crinkle-edged leaves growing up there, whereas hawksbeard generally doesnt, unless its very mature. The leaf shapes are different.
Hawksbeard doesnt have so many tight clusters of flowers as ragwort does. The first pic you posted shows your finger tips for size comparison, and going by that, iād say that small stem head has a lot of flowers on it for hawksbeard, and am leaning to identify it as ragwort.
Ragwort has ācupsā the seeds all sit in when mature and dried.
If you dampen the weed and crush it vigorously with gloved hands, does it pong, like almost a urine smellā¦an unpleasant acrid smell?
Ragwort absolutely stinks when fresh and crushedā¦.if you soak it to soften it in warm water, then remove from water and and really crush the cr*p out of it!ā¦ then get close and smell, if its really off-putting, its ragwort.
The trouble with accurate i.d is that both weeds considered in your case are both very changeable in appearance depending on age. 1 year old ragwort and hawksbeard are much slenderer than older root systems. If your hay is from a field infested with old root systems of either, but mowed every year - youāll get small but stocky examples of both flower stems.
The only real way to fully tell them apart (aside from smell) would be if you could find some stems with some kind of leaf attached. The multi-lobed, sharp edged ragwort leaves are unmistakable.
The leaves when very dry and prone to crushing and breaking-off - but if you really search the bale slowly peeling off the hay, to slowly pull out one flower head, and search for evidence of leaves in that spot - we have a chance of 100% sure i.d.
But as its (potentially) ragwort, and considering the damage that does to livers - permanent damage, i definitely lean towards being more cautious.
Unfortunately horses will eat dried ragwort but most of them wont eat fresh - the fresh smell is just yuck, dissipating when dreid and old in hay. So we cant rely on them eating it dried in hay to give us any indication if its safe.
If you are finding 1 small stem like picture 1 in 2 turns of a round bale, iād simply pull out and any surrounding hay, and soak/feed the rest. But if youāre finding stems every foot of hay, dotted everywhere, hold-off from feeding until 100% accurate i.d can be established.
Leaf shape will secure a good i.d.
Sorry its an ambiguous answer, ive been where you are and know the anguish..and have thrown tonnes of toxic hay out. My very first bought batch of hay was absolutely full each flake of cats ear!
If this is the only hay you have and need feed now, then all you can do is to search through it all pulling away the weed with surrounding hay, and feed whats āweed freeā. Its a tedious job i know, but if today you need food and cant get anything else until the next day, its best to play it safe.
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AWinter
Well-Known Member
Thanks weāve just looked at that and heās still convinced the seed heads are different, also would that grow on a hay field?
PurBee
Well-Known Member
For reference, hereās smooth hawsbeard seed head and seed:
And hereās ragwort seedhead and seed:
Not all flower heads of both plants will be pollinated and full of seeds - but they are both very similar and striatedā¦striped. However, the ragwort seed is more ābanana shapedā than the hawks beard.
And hereās ragwort seedhead and seed:
Not all flower heads of both plants will be pollinated and full of seeds - but they are both very similar and striatedā¦striped. However, the ragwort seed is more ābanana shapedā than the hawks beard.
AWinter
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for your detailed responses, I really appreciate it. Iām not going to feed any more of the hay itās not worth the risk
farmer has ignored my messages so I highly doubt heās going to offer to take it back. Itās actually got plants in I donāt recognise and now I feel really stupid, people always say Iām too anxious and I know a yard has been feeding this hay for a few months with no issues, but now I wish Iād trusted my gut. I really hope the horses havenāt ingested anything harmful.Lois Lame
Well-Known Member
Name That Plant! - GardenWeb
This gallery forum allows users to upload images of plants that they are trying to identify so that others may be able to help them come up with a name. Make sure you read the instructions on uploading as certain restrictions apply.
Try this site. It's very good. Usually, of course, people post photos of living specimens but that's impossible for something found in hay. Perhaps explain the situation first, I found this in my hay, blah blah, and supply the pic. I think pictures aren't able to be posted in the first post, from what i understand, so post it in a second post.