Is this silly

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Dyllymoo

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J definitely doesn't enjoy the school. I don't think he has done much in there, and what he did with the children he was with before me probably wasn't too much (there are pictures of him doing poles on the ground etc.) and I know he went to pony club camp.

He is unbalanced and very green and wobbly. So we mostly hack (once a week with a friend, once a week with my OH on foot which he likes and the rest solo). We do go in the school but he really really hates it.

My OH wants to do something this weekend, he said maybe take him in the box somewhere, like a local country park with a horse route. I'm dubious. My anxiety does tend to kick in and I do tend to talk myself out of things with the bad things that could go wrong.

I don't know if its such a good idea with him being so young and green.

I must admit I get frustrated that I'm having to rely on other people and their horses (due to work etc. it means we hack out once a week with someone else, if that). We have had a couple of solo hacks but he is so worried and we get round but he doesn't enjoy it. Its sad.

I'm just not sure what to do to help him enjoy ridden work. He seems to just get worried most of the time :(

I do think I have possibly bitten off more than I can chew with such a baby horse.
 
I don't really buy into the idea that horses - especially young horses who really shouldn't be sour - don't like arenas. I tend to presume they have one of two issues: a physical issue which means that the small size / turns, or the surface, make it hard for them to work in the arena, or that their rider doesn't enjoy working in an arena and doesn't make it fun for the horse. Arena work doesn't have to be trotting circles - you can do in hand work, teach lateral work (on the ground or on board), do poles, small jumps, trec obstacles, mounted games - all sorts things to make it interesting and engaging for the horse.

I also think that you're projecting your own anxiety onto your horse. It's normal for green ponies to be a bit wobbly and lacking confidence out hacking - it's up to the rider to give them the courage to get over it. I sympathise - my best pony, in my avatar, was borderline hysterical to hack alone when he was younger - because of a few serious incidents on early hacks, his personality, my lack of experience with babies - a perfect storm. It takes time, but it also takes repetition, and putting yourself in that situation over and over again until it seems normal and safe for both of you. Obviously you don't want to throw him in the deep end or put yourself in situations you can't handle - you need to set him up to succeed with small, easy goals, and repeat ad infinitum. It does get easier and it does work, but it takes time and patience, and a lot of balls from the rider.

Incidentally, some horses are better hacking away from home. I'd go out with your OH and see how he is. You can always jump off and lead him if he's stressed, and you have your OH to help too. Bloody lucky there, I'd say ;)
 
Most can learn and enjoy schooling you just need to get inside their head and find out what works for the individual, horses don't hate things, they tend to not understand so become defensive or worried which we then think it them hating something, if he is worried that is the first thing to address, ensure all his tack fits, is genuinely comfortable and that he has no underlying physical issues, spend time just walking in hand doing some basic moves, he can do pole work in hand, make them interesting by putting out different patterns, raising some, walking and trotting over them and encourage him to enjoy it with the use of your voice.
Long reining would also be good, in the school, out and about, use your imagination, I have messed about with some of mine by doing a real variety even walking in and out of the hay barn can add interest, anything you do on long reins can also be tried ridden, schooling does not have to be going round in circles trying to perfect everything it can involve a bit of fun for you both.
 
It sounds like your anxiety is making him anxious from what you've written. The only way to get young horses acclimatised to the Big Wide World is to take them out, show them scary things, and teach them they won't die! You need to do this as much as possible.

How old is he and what makes you think he doesn't like school work?
 
Thanks all.

I probably haven't really explained the above well, I tend to just splurge what I'm thinking!

All of his tack fits (he has a new fitted saddle, new bridle and bit that were fitted by a fit bit consultant), he has been the same from the moment I got him in the school. He is behind the leg, and just generally feels like he doesn't want to be there. I've done months of in hand stuff in there, agility/ trec, poles, long reining and he is the same whenever we go in there. I keep the sessions short so that its not laboured but genuinely he really doesn't get enthusiastic. My RI also noted he is anxious under saddle (when she rode). He did eventually settle, and he noticeably is more settled when I ride him. He has no idea about poles. Even long reining he just bashes them, or stands on them, or spooks at them. He is like a different horse out hacking and seems to "enjoy" being out, but then just gets anxious.

Its odd as he gets more worried about things on our way home (usually the home straight). He is fantastic with traffic but not so much in open fields so I generally only take him solo around the village.

Don't get me wrong, we have come on so much in just the passed couple of months and I do feel like he has a bit more trust in me so when I say "come on its not scary lets go" he goes "ok then", rather than just getting upset. I definitely feel braver.

I think the repetition re: hacking is interesting. I think with the awful weather his ridden work has been intermittent, but the past 2 weeks we have been solo hacking 5 times a week and he has been slowly getting better. He did throw a spanner in the works Monday, but he is a baby and I just kind of got through the situation and laughed about it afterwards.

I'm probably just thinking too much into it all really. I just want him to enjoy being ridden, as much as I enjoy riding him. He is such a sweet boy, I want us both to have fun.

My OH is a good egg that's for sure x
 
Maybe try some ground work in the menage and reward him with lots of praise and a treat afterwards rather than actual work with gadgets or poles etc and concentrate on your breathing to be really relaxed and see how he reacts? Then you can copy this behaviour when you ride in the menage afterwards.
But this sort of thing takes time and some times a long time. Horses really feed off a rider/handler so doing some exercises to relax yourself when working with him either on the ground or on his back I think will help you.
 
Is he the same if you box out and hire a different arena? To be honest, I don't really accept "behind the leg" or "doesn't want to be there" when it comes to arena work - it's a part of life for almost all horses and is essential future proofing in my opinion. If the surface is good and the horse is sound and capable, I expect them to buckle down and get on with it. In return, I give them fun and interesting things to do in the arena, and give them the opportunity to learn skills which don't come naturally. Lots of babies are clumsy with poles, but they do learn.
 
I've not taken him anywhere else as the weather has been awful and didn't think it fair to not work him one week but drag him somewhere new. I was thinking of hiring somewhere but I would need like a clinic or lesson to get us both focussed I think.

I'm not accepting "behind the leg" its something I am genuinely trying to change with him, he has got better, but its still not where I want it but again with everything things will come. I haven't found anything that seems to make him perk up in the school i.e. my old mare would see poles and immediately become more forward and LOVED polework (we would do all sorts of crazy combinations).

I am very relaxed now when I ride. 100 times more so than I was, which is why we are able to go out solo, I concentrate on my breathing, I chat to him, I only praise forward now (I did catch myself stroking his neck when he was worried, which I then realised was saying its good to be worried!). I know its not an overnight thing where he will come out and be all chilled with whatever the world will throw at him, I think I just wondered if taking him somewhere he doesn't know on his own (albeit with good egg OH on foot) would be too much for him. Maybe I underestimate him at times.
 
Have to agree with the above, I have never had a horse that wasn't happy to do arena work provided it was fit and well. I think riders get hung up about school work being boring but horses generally don't, by definition by human terms a horse's life is deadly boring but that's what they are designed for (eat, sleep, wander about, eat, sleep etc). They don't live for excessive stimulation.

He's a young horse learning the ropes and has had intermittent work, and you've had some battles with your nerves, I don't think it's unusual therefore that he's a bit behind the leg and I would not read any more into it than that at this stage.
He also might just be one of life's more steady characters and never really fire up with poles etc.

It's a good idea to try him elsewhere and see how it goes. One of mine is a shocking hack at home but lovely to ride if we box off somewhere. I also find it useful to ride them in different arenas and usually have a better ride away from home.
 
Dyllymoo said:
I've not taken him anywhere else as the weather has been awful and didn't think it fair to not work him one week but drag him somewhere new.

I'm not accepting "behind the leg" its something I am genuinely trying to change with him, he has got better, but its still not where I want it but again with everything things will come.

(I did catch myself stroking his neck when he was worried, which I then realised was saying its good to be worried!).
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I've redacted that so I can reply to specific points.

Firstly, don't worry about dragging him out somewhere new if he's not been ridden much at home. You just moderate how much work you do and your expectations. Currently I can't canter one of mine out and about (ground, no arena at home) so we only do canter work if I arena hire which is a bit sporadic. I still take her, I just make sure I remember she's not done so much recently and try to get the important stuff worked out early on before she's cooked.

When I said about accepting the behind the leg thing, I didn't mean you weren't working through it. I don't mind behind the leg in a baby at all - I mean that I don't accept it as a reason not to do arena work. I presumed from your OP that you aren't currently doing much arena work because he doesn't enjoy it, and when you go in, you expect him to be bored - I would persist with arena work and try to work through his boredom / anxiety / laziness (delete as appropriate!) until he becomes more workable in the arena. It's a good place for you to get work on him on days where the weather isn't great or you don't have company / don't want to hack, so don't write it off - show him how much fun it can be (and, like hacking, this can take a while and a lot of persistence).

Finally, I really wouldn't worry about rubbing the neck of a tense horse. You won't reinforce the tension by rubbing the neck - that's not really how it works, but it's one of these weird things you see people saying regardless.
 
JFTDWS said:
I've redacted that so I can reply to specific points.

Firstly, don't worry about dragging him out somewhere new if he's not been ridden much at home. You just moderate how much work you do and your expectations. Currently I can't canter one of mine out and about (ground, no arena at home) so we only do canter work if I arena hire which is a bit sporadic. I still take her, I just make sure I remember she's not done so much recently and try to get the important stuff worked out early on before she's cooked.

When I said about accepting the behind the leg thing, I didn't mean you weren't working through it. I don't mind behind the leg in a baby at all - I mean that I don't accept it as a reason not to do arena work. I presumed from your OP that you aren't currently doing much arena work because he doesn't enjoy it, and when you go in, you expect him to be bored - I would persist with arena work and try to work through his boredom / anxiety / laziness (delete as appropriate!) until he becomes more workable in the arena. It's a good place for you to get work on him on days where the weather isn't great or you don't have company / don't want to hack, so don't write it off - show him how much fun it can be (and, like hacking, this can take a while and a lot of persistence).

Finally, I really wouldn't worry about rubbing the neck of a tense horse. You won't reinforce the tension by rubbing the neck - that's not really how it works, but it's one of these weird things you see people saying regardless.
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Ah I probably didn't word my post properly about the behind the leg thingy and the arena work. We definitely go in at least once a week and sometimes twice and I tend to work out a goal for the session beforehand. Maybe this morning I shouldn't of ridden as I was so tired and late getting on, I didn't really do as much as I wanted, and didn't set myself a goal to achieve. He didn't do anything wrong at all. I literally have no idea how to show him its fun though, I've tried things and he just seems to go through the motions like he is switched off. I think that's what I mean when I say he doesn't seem to enjoy it, he is switched off. Does that make more sense?

I've been told that so often that I feel like its been drilled in to me. TBF if I was anxious and someone stroked my leg it might move my worries from the other issue to that (hahahaha!)
 
Dyllymoo said:
Ah I probably didn't word my post properly about the behind the leg thingy and the arena work. We definitely go in at least once a week and sometimes twice and I tend to work out a goal for the session beforehand. Maybe this morning I shouldn't of ridden as I was so tired and late getting on, I didn't really do as much as I wanted, and didn't set myself a goal to achieve. He didn't do anything wrong at all. I literally have no idea how to show him its fun though, I've tried things and he just seems to go through the motions like he is switched off. I think that's what I mean when I say he doesn't seem to enjoy it, he is switched off. Does that make more sense?

I've been told that so often that I feel like its been drilled in to me. TBF if I was anxious and someone stroked my leg it might move my worries from the other issue to that (hahahaha!)
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Yes I understand that - I've had a few like that. Sometimes you need to push them through it, sometimes you just need to persist, sometimes they just need to learn to relax and learn they're allowed to take a gamble and they won't be punished for it. It's a trial and error thing - you don't know what will work until you try. I'd just keep going in there and focus on relaxation and on forward - which may sound counter-intuitive, but one of the most pacifying behaviours for a horse is movement, and by shutting down horses deprive themselves of that unwittingly. I used to do things like aim to get from one end of the arena to the other as fast as possible and play silly games like that until the horse gets the idea that they're allowed to go forward and switch on a bit. With my current mare, I did it all with a polocrosse racquet in hand so we had a ball the chase, but you can do all sorts of variations. The key is to get them moving and then let them stop really quickly so they get a reward / return to safety quickly early on, and then to build up how long you get them going. This makes sense in my head but I'm not sure I've expressed it very well!

If someone stroked my thigh when stressed they would certainly cure my stress. I'd be so busy lamping them, I'd have entirely forgotten about whatever was stressing me out in the first place ;)
 
Right, stop being worried about him being worried. Stop being worried about him not having fun! Stop being worried about him not liking the school! Stop being worried about taking him out somewhere! Please, stop being worried!!! I'm afraid that it doesn't sound as though you are best match together, you are anxious and he appears not be a bold active type. So if you want to make this work I think you need a plan. Have a good think about where you want to get to with him. He is young and green, what do you want to make him into? How are you going to get there? Break it down into stages and work through them systematically. You many need an instructor to help you with this, both the planning and the execution of the plan. This will give you something positive to work for and think about. I agree with the comments above. The only horses I know which are described as not liking schoolwork are ridden by people who don't like schoolwork! Or are uncomfortable in some way. Horses are obliging beasts generally and usually get on pretty well with whatever job they have providing they are treated kindly, confidently and with purpose. Expectations of them need to be clear - you need to set young horses up to succeed, and praise them when they do. Give him a job to do, give him consistent work to get him there, build up his fitness, his muscles and his education and then I think he will transform into the horse you want him to be. You will enjoy the journey and, once he is confident in his work, he will too. Some horses are rather phlegmatic - he sounds a bit like Eeyore! Maybe he just is not demonstrative, and prefers to bumble through life in his own quiet way. When you've shown him what his job is and he is equipped with the skills to do it, I bet he will be a different horse. Try to expect good things from him, you just seem to expect everything to go wrong currently. If he was child, would you expect his his teacher to be so negative in their expectations?
 
Yes keep going! I think we often underestimate how long it takes young greenies to fully understand what we are asking in terms of schooling. Hacking is different - far less structured with plenty of distractions. Try to keep work in the school short and positive - 10 minutes of good work is preferable to 30 minutes of feeling like you are trying to push water up hill. Schooling is hard work for young horses, both mentally and physically. My young horse was the same as yours and I worried that he hated working in the school and would never ‘enjoy’ it. A year on it’s like the handbrake has been released. He’s on the aids and feels like a different horse. All that’s changed is he has matured, strengthened and fully understands what I want. As long as I keep it interesting and vary the work he is happy ?
 
Get round - again and again and again. Keep moving forwards, keep going, run off any excess energy by keeping moving. In time they realise nothing hurt them and relax. So long as you don’t lose your nerve that is. If you think you might, you need someone else to train him to hack solo confidently.

The right saddle makes all the difference too - I feel very secure in mine, they both have nice knee rolls and a suede seat. Keeps me stuck when we suddenly leap 10ft sideways, or shoot 20m forwards!
 
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