Is this the right thing to do? (Charlie and Ulcer related) *piccys*

3Beasties

3Beasties

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The vet thinks Charlie has almost certainly got Gastric ulcers, he has given me two options

1. Have him scoped and then go from there (stressful for C and very expensive as he will no doubt need treatment afterwords)

or

2. Don't have him scoped, put him on GastroGuard (at £250 per week
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) for at least 4 week and then see how he is looking.


I'm thinking of going with Option 3, treat him myself for a month and if no improvement then go with option 1.

I have an action Plan -

* Change his diet
*Feed him Aloe Vera and Manuka Honey
*Get an Ulcer supplement
*Up his hay to ad lib
*and give him a small feed before any exercise

I am planning to keep a kind of log book on how he is doing and take regular picture to compare for improvement/deterioration. If there's any deterioration I would obviously call the vet immediately.

Obviously I will suggest Option 3 to my vet when I talk to him next week but just want to know if I am way of the mark with what I want to do!

So what do you think, would I be doing the right thing to treat him myself for a month to see if he improves?


Pictures from Day 1 (Yesterday) - Looking like a bag of Sh!te
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This was him at the end of September last year
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and the beginning of November
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Not a good before and after is it
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I want to do (and WILL do) the best for my boy but don't want to bankrupt me in the process
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I think it is spottedcat whose horse has had awful trouble with ulcers.
Maybe PM her for some advice ..... I think she's probably close to writing a book on her long saga
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.
Alternatively, have a look at some of past posts in veterinary.
 
Might be worth PMing H's Mum on here - coligone lady! She always seems very knowledgable.
Poor boy hope he comes right for you.
 
As someone whose horse has had grade 4 ulcers, both splash and glandular, I have to say I think you'd be bonkers to do anything except scope him.

1. Scoping is cheap. It costs about £200 and is the only reliable method of diagnosis.
2. There isn't a single supplement on the market which will cure ulcers. You may reduce the clinical signs etc, but you need gastrogard (a proton pump inhibitor) to cure them - and gg is far too expensive to use unless you know you need it.
3. If he has ulcers, gg alone may not cure them. My horse (and littlepinkpiggies and a whole host of others besides) needed antibiotics to cure the ones at the base of his stomach. So for my horse, gg cured the splash ones, but had no effect on the glandular ones and no effect on his performance. So if you don't scope you don't know what you are dealing with.
4. If the scope doesn't show ulcers, then you need to investigate what is actually causing your horse to drop weight etc - and if you don't scope and it is something serious, you may be out of time.
5. If your horse has ulcers and improves on the supplements etc, then you may think he's ok - but you have no idea what type of damage has been done/is going on....and you run the risk of more serious problems down the line if you improve them but don't cure them.

I don't see what the point is in 'suspecting' your horse has a problem then treating it without a proper diagnosis.

But make sure your insurance is really very good!!

Feel free to PM me, it's taken over a year to get my horse 100% again, so I know an unhealthy amount about ulcers, treatments, supplements, management etc.
 
Agree totally with spotted cat. Get him scoped even if it is just so that you can rule it out and know there is another problem. Good luck with it all though.
 
No experience of this so I will leave it to those more knowledgeable.. but just wanted to say ((((vibes)))))) for a speedy recovery and you not being left bankrupt in the process!! x
 
i have had 2 horses scoped (for different things) and i can give you a break down of the cost of both

for strangles (gutteral pouch scope)

call out - £44.96
scope - £89.85
sedation - £29.15

total £163.96

for lump in throat

call out - £44.96
scope (single) - £54.98
stuff to knock the git out - £40.90

total £140.84
 
If it was me, I wouldnt try and treat myself, as his condition could deteriorate even further, and that could lead to complications. I would get it sorted by scoping now, definitely.
hope he has speedy recovery, poor boy.
 
One of my previous horse had ulcers and my advice would be to get him scoped, its not stressful for them as they can be sedated. It's all covered under insurance.

I would rather know what i was dealing with and get it sorted and ditto what Spottedcat said above - you can not beat Gastrogard, its brilliant stuff and certainly does the trick!!!

I would go for it and get him sorted sooner rather than later - good luck and wishing him a speedy recovery
 
agree with spotted cat, you need to know the grade of the ulcars really. if you are insured you can claim for the scope AND the gastrogaurd! gastrogaurd is the only thing that will treat them and then you can go on to prevent them. one thing i will say, i have a tb and since the day iv had him, everytime i have fully clipped him he has looked like yours. i just dont think they cope unless they are stabled most of the time and lots of rugs (which is why most competition horses look good, they are wrapped in cotton wool) next year i would just give him a bib clip and youl prob see a huge difference in his weight, mine has a bib and lots of rugs and feed and this is his best winter yet. i know how frustrating it is coz they look so good in the summer then hat racks in the winter. i spend a fortune feeding him and am only just seeing the results. typical tb's hey! def up his hay to adlib as that will help him generate heat and keep warm!!
 
getting him scoped is the only way of knowing what you are dealing with and having just been through the whole proccess with toby i say get him scoped and hewill be sedated so won't know whats going on
 
Am presuming that you have you had a full blood run up?

TBH for him to drop off that quickly I would be looking at other things before ulcers. Yes, it could be, but what has happened for him to suddenly develop them (i.e. husbandry changes, a serious up in the performance questions you have been asking, etc). Does he usually drop off during the winter? Have you managed to keep his exercise up during Jan when we had all of the bad weather as he has lost a lot of muscle?

If he was mine there is no way I would be waiting, I would be getting a full blood check up and a scope if you are still worried.

Good luck.
 
Weezy - Bloods were done last week and came back clear. He has dropped weight since Xmas time, he's not been in as much work since xmas due to the weather. He need lots of feeding over winter to maintain his weight but this year it hasn't worked/helped.

He is on a different yard this year which is higher up and in the middle of nowhere, it's usually colder and wetter up there then it is at home, he hasn't been as pampered as he would usually be but I still don't think he should loose this much weight.


Miss Buffy - He's been hunter clipped for the last 3 years and has never come out of winter looking like this so don't think that is the problem, he is well rugged (some would say over rugged).
 
Has he been in a lot more than usual? This is what could have triggered it, if he was stressing from being in. Shame the bloods were clear, would be so much easier if something had showed, however small! How old is he?
 
Nope, he's not been stabled at all, has been shut in a big (communal) barn at night and out during the day. I couldn't get to him during the worse of the weather so I can only think that he wasn't given enough hay, this would fit with dates etc.

I had the bloods done as I though his virus had come back as they are similar symptoms (he had a couple of months off due to a bad one last summer) blood didn't show it though.

Over the last 2 weeks he has been wormed, had his back done, teeth done and vet has been out. Both the Back man and vet said he was a classic case of a horse with ulcers.

He's 15 this year
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i would get him scoped then, he looks worse than he is really, yes hes underweight (ribby) but he doesnt have any muscle which makes it look worse than it is as muscle fills up alot of gaps. but for peace of mind see whats going on inside him, if it shows nothing and he doesnt put weight on by spring and with work then you know its more than just a harsh winter.

good luck and keep us posted!!
 
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