Is this unreasonable? (livery related)

No it is not ideal, but neither are the weather conditions!

I think it is all about compromise, and at the price you are paying there will have to be one somewhere. You could move to a yard with better hacking, but then may not be allowed to turn out if wet......
 
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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I wouldnt want to be on your livery yard.
 
OP, do you think the hay is free to your YO?

Tbh a lot of people pay what you pay for just a field and stable so I think if you like this place then maybe try to look at it differently, in that you get some extras in with the price that you'd not get elsewhere. The weather is bothering a lot of horse people worldwide; my arena is not usable for the first time ever, we have way too much snow on top of layers of ice so it's just not safe and with temperatures set to remain at around -20c for the next few weeks there's just no chance of clearing it or making it usable. It's just one of those things I'm afraid. Mind you none of my clients would want to ride in these silly temperatures anyway so it doesn't bother anyone. We don't have mud of course so horses are all 24/7 out as normal.
 
Billy the kid said:
I wouldnt want to be on your livery yard.
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People that have stayed have become very good friends and understand, I actually have people ask to come after they have left so Grass is definately not always greener! Once people leave they don't come back either, it is my yard and I have who I like on it, I am very cheap for my area closest on livery fees is £15 a week more with just a stable, no turnout at all and no grazing! And for yard with school you would be looking at £25 a week more. I don't make any profit from yard and do it because I enjoy horses and like company to ride with so I don't want others upsetting my hobby!
 
Polos Mum said:
£200 a month is £50 a week
Turn out at £2 a go for five days is £10, same for bringing in so another £10
Straw - say 2 bales a week is £4
Hay - in 24/7 or extra in field would be say 5 bales a week at £4 each thats £20

So from your £50 your paying £20 for their time, £24 for hay and straw which leaves £6 a week for insurance, water, rates, electric for school, facilities and maintenance

Not much of a supprise that the facilities are rubbish - you get what you pay for.
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I personally don't agree that she should expect bad facilities for that. I pay £175 PCM, yo turns out every day and feeds Ben before she does. I get daytime turnout in winter, nighttime turnout in summer, this includes adlib hay/haylage. We have a xc field, a school, lovely jumps, use of all their yard tools (if we don't have our own which I do). I pay for my own straw which she orders in but this is only £23 for a big bale every 10 weeks.

I absolutely wouldn't stand for not being able to use the school if I couldn't turn Ben out.
 
Spring Feather said:
The weather is bothering a lot of horse people worldwide; my arena is not usable for the first time ever, we have way too much snow on top of layers of ice so it's just not safe and with temperatures set to remain at around -20c for the next few weeks there's just no chance of clearing it or making it usable. It's just one of those things I'm afraid.

We don't have mud of course so horses are all 24/7 out as normal.
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SF, How do yours cope with the ice? In my experience, it is ok to turn out on fresh powder snow, but when it becomes compacted and icy, it becomes dangerous, and then I bring mine in.

I doubt that any outdoor arena would be useable in the weather that you have at the mo!
 
Queenbee - you are lucky, I just can't work out how anyone could make that work, clearly they do - perhaps they inherited the property so no rent/ mortgage or are happy to work for very little income as they have income from another source just to have company on the yard - who knows.

I used to pay £100 a week livery 10 years ago and now (incurring all the costs of a yard myself) that the lovely people who ran that yard did so 356 days a year for far less than minimum wage.
 
Tiddlypom said:
SF, How do yours cope with the ice? In my experience, it is ok to turn out on fresh powder snow, but when it becomes compacted and icy, it becomes dangerous, and then I bring mine in.

I doubt that any outdoor arena would be useable in the weather that you have at the mo!
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It's a bit infuriating actually as we've never had to close our arena in all the years I've lived here. I really want to get in there as I have sales videos to do but it's just not safe to take little ones in there right now.

The basic problem this year is that we had a little bit of snow and then the temps went mild and the snow melted to ice when the overnight temps plummeted to minus silly temperatures. It was then mild through the days so the ice started to begin melting, then temps plummeted again. Then it snowed again and left a layer of snow above the ice, then it started to melt again and then we had more snow inbetween plummeting temperatures. So this year we have two very thick layers of ice under the snow which we can't eradicate. Even the driveways which are always clear and down to roadway are ice covered so we're driving on ice roads. They aren't slippery but there is inches of ice packed down. The fields seem to be fine however and the horses get around easily. Some herds though haven't left their paddocks/corrals in months (all my big fields have smaller paddocks attached where their barns, hay and water are). The other smaller fields, the horses have made walkways to all their needs and they stick to those paths, never leaving them lol. They do well tbh, one year we had to have the gritter trucks into the fields to make walkways for them as that year we had no snow at all but got freezing rain on top of the grass and everywhere was like a giant icerink. Weird weather this year though and I'm so looking forward to spring so we can all get out and about.
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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Yours would not be a yard I would choose due to turn out restrictions,(traffic does not bother me) you unlike many YO/YM are being honest from the outset.

Personally turn out is far more important to me than grass, I like to manage my own field and when allowed to do so I feed hay and grass all year round-that has gone a bit boobs up with my daughters horse but will be back on track fairly soon.

It is nothing to do with spending a week in YO/YM shoes (have done the latter on more than one occasion), it is more to do with the yard being honest from the outset how much turn out will/may be restricted if the weather is dire.

I like the up front honest approach and do agree if you don't like the options on a yard and cannot put yourself out to stay there then leave
 
twiggy2 said:
Yours would not be a yard I would choose due to turn out restrictions,(traffic does not bother me) you unlike many YO/YM are being honest from the outset.

Personally turn out is far more important to me than grass, I like to manage my own field and when allowed to do so I feed hay and grass all year round-that has gone a bit boobs up with my daughters horse but will be back on track fairly soon.

It is nothing to do with spending a week in YO/YM shoes (have done the latter on more than one occasion), it is more to do with the yard being honest from the outset how much turn out will/may be restricted if the weather is dire.

I like the up front honest approach and do agree if you don't like the options on a yard and cannot put yourself out to stay there then leave
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I am always honest when people view my yard, its very rare people moves yards during the winter as its too awkward moving quanities of feed and bedding etc and most will often postpone until whether improves, bedding etc runs out. People general will come and view spring/summer when I always have loads of grass and its dry and they disbelieve what I tell them thinking can't be that muddy and that I exagerate, then come winter and gets muddy they start moaning! I related 1 winter many years ago and used grazing up over winter and then in spring when took longer to recover they left anyway as no grazing so now I am very direct and blunt and to be honest it has made me and my liveries alot happier. We are a very happy and content yard and have no livery changes in 2+ years.
By being in YM shoes I don't think many people understand how much hardwork goes into making sure basic things run smoothly.
 
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Well I pay £50 a week, hay, 1bale of shavings, basic feed and morning turnout included.
At the moment we can only turn out whilst we muck out if it is light (so 30 mins 3 times a week for my lad) but we can lunge or ride in the school at all times.
There is always way too much grass in spring/summer because the grazing is well managed.

I would NOT be happy if we could not use the school at all whilst there was no turn out! It is not healthy for the horse to be stuck still for that length of time.

TBH I think a lot of blame lies with some YO's, they often price themselves very low and then try to cram in more horses than the land can support. This then gives ther livery client a false expectation of what prices should be. I'd rather livery yard owners put thier prices up a bit but had less horses on the yard.

I do know of 1 yard where they have 20 horses, 3 acres of grazing total, the horses never have grass, rarely go out and practically every horse on the yard has stable vices!
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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Not sure why my post has made you angry? I posted to say how lovely my yard & YO is & how I hate to complain as it's such a fab yard, however deterioration on the school means I'm not able to ride much. I wondered if other yards/liveries are in the same boat. The cost has increased slightly over time (naturally, due to inflation) but the services we once had are declining. I certainly never 'moaned'.

I appreciate your suggestions and I'm glad they work for you but unfortunately we don't all commence work at 9am & the yard is not open at the time of the morning you mentioned. Walking around a soggy car park for 45 min draining my car battery for my headlights is not a practical situation for myself but as I said before, if it works for you that's great.

Just to reiterate we are in Scotland. Around £200 per month is average livery fees for a yard with school etc where I live. If my job etc allowed me to go DIY I would as could get that for around £120 a month or less.
 
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Just to add: If being a YO is your chosen career, that's up to you. There's no use in stereotyping all who keep horses on livery as 'complainers'. If that's the case, maybe your in the wrong job. I don't expect my YO to 'walk a day in my shoes'!......I work a difficult job & I provide a service to the public. If my service wasn't up to scratch I would get complaints, regardless of what my wage is!
 
horsefeed said:
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
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I think OP said that she was in Scotland - it won't be light by 7.10am - it will still be completely pitch black. It isn't light up here until about 8.15am at the moment. I don't think advising her to hack out in the pitch black is a particularly clever suggestion, high viz or not.
 
I couldn't put up with no turnout and no school. I know quite a few yards which will limit turnout when the weather is as wet as it has been but not heard of many who limit use of the school. Maybe it's time for you to look for another yard? £200 does seem very expensive for pure DIY - do you get hay and bedding included with that?
 
I pay £63 a week for assisted DIY. Feed in on a morning, turned out and brought in, unlimited haylage and straw. Theres a huge indoor school, a 20 x 40 indoor school, a huge outdoor and a 20 x 40 outdoor, and a lunge pen. Mine doesnt get grass turnout in the winter as he busts through the electric fencing, but he does get to go out twice a day in all weather turnout paddock/round pen. Theres also a lot of off road hacking round the farm. And I'm in Milton Keynes, so it doesnt seem ridiculously cheap to me! I also get first class service from them! I put him on full livery this week with less than a days notice and they've posted pics on Facebook for me so I can see how he is. No qualms at all that hes getting first class care :)

Not really what you asked, but just wanted to point out, its really not that cheap!
 
IMHO no turnout and nowhere to ride makes a welfare issue. I wouldn't put up with that and would move asap. I would expect the YO to sort out the drainage in the school or be less strict about their field management and maybe have a winter "sacrifice" field which gets summer to recover or a year off every so often, or rotated with cattle.

I'm in an expensive part of Scotland and you can get DIY livery including all hay and straw in winter for £100 a month, with a basic school. Some places include Monday-Friday turnout in that. £200 for that plus a reasonable school is considered expensive but you might do it if you got exceptionally good facilities, such as a good indoor school, good surfaced and large outdoor school, morning turnout, good washbay facilties, maybe a horsewalker.

On complete DIY livery, I pay £100 a month but I do all my own turnout and bring in, and hay costs me £25 a month for a big bale plus £15 for a big bale of straw.

I think your yard sounds awful. If you can't get any turnout or anywhere to ride, and your horse has to stand in a box all day, you would almost be better keeping him in a stable in your own garden!
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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How on earth do you manage with 12 horses on one acre?! I have a half acre paddock in front of my house, with a field shelter, and what sounds like a similarly busy road outside, plus my neighbour lets me ride in his small former school (moved his horses because of said busy road) and I couldn't conceive keeping even 2 horses there except as an alternative to stabling for a show close by for a few days!
 
horsefeed said:
I am always honest when people view my yard, its very rare people moves yards during the winter as its too awkward moving quanities of feed and bedding etc and most will often postpone until whether improves, bedding etc runs out. People general will come and view spring/summer when I always have loads of grass and its dry and they disbelieve what I tell them thinking can't be that muddy and that I exagerate, then come winter and gets muddy they start moaning! I related 1 winter many years ago and used grazing up over winter and then in spring when took longer to recover they left anyway as no grazing so now I am very direct and blunt and to be honest it has made me and my liveries alot happier. We are a very happy and content yard and have no livery changes in 2+ years.
By being in YM shoes I don't think many people understand how much hardwork goes into making sure basic things run smoothly.
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Agree with this basically....... I've been both poacher and gamekeeper as did keep mine in a place where there was virtually NO turnout from November through to March - which was dealable as the horse was on working livery and had enough exercise etc, so that wasn't a problem.

I'm currently a YO; and I leave my (DIY) livery to manage "her" own part of the field basically. So whether she turns out or not is up to her. I arrange the basic stuff like rolling & harrowing.

Think OP, TBH, IF you are totally 100% happy with your current yard in every other respect, think you may just need to sit it out till the weather gets better and things dry up a little (em, if that ever DOES happen:). I can understand where the YO is coming from in not wanting the school to be used if its wet as this will entail a lot of repairs to sort it again. If the school is flooding then using it when its like that could cause a lot of damage to the drainage etc., so maybe this is why they're saying it cannot be used. A lot of YO's are tearing their hair out at the moment as they're very aware that putting restrictions on people only ruffles feathers, but these weather conditions are exceptional and its very hard to please everyone all of the time.

But....... you have got to do something with your horse, and currently the one thing you'd counted on being able to use, is currently out of bounds for the foreseeable future. So, as someone else has suggested, you may have to deck out in hi-viz and get out exercising early!!! If you're anxious about doing this on your own, get some other liveries to go out with you!!!

Does anyone on the yard have a lorry or other transport? Could you travel out to some open land anywhere nearby and have a good hoon???? Just an idea, don't know if its a practical suggestion or not though.

But personally, if you don't want the 45 minute drive to another (better?) yard every time, then think you're just going to have to sweat it out where you are I'm afraid. And pray for sunshine. And/or move...........
 
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Holly Hocks said:
I think OP said that she was in Scotland - it won't be light by 7.10am - it will still be completely pitch black. It isn't light up here until about 8.15am at the moment. I don't think advising her to hack out in the pitch black is a particularly clever suggestion, high viz or not.
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This is correct- a few weeks ago I was tacked up & ready to hack but has to wait until about 8:45 when visibility was good. it can be quite foggy too in the morn.
 
el_Snowflakes said:
This is correct- a few weeks ago I was tacked up & ready to hack but has to wait until about 8:45 when visibility was good. it can be quite foggy too in the morn.
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I know - I'm hoping to get out at 8.15am tomorrow, but I'll probably still need some flashing lights on the high viz! Roll on Spring!
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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Whoa there... Your 6 horses ain't your liveries fault.

If you're struggling it isn't because of of your liveries, its down to your business management skills which to me you have none of.
 
Personally i wouldnt find this acceptable for me or my horses, i would be looking to move, it rains every other day up here, nowhere to ride no turnout and no school to work in would = no chance of staying there for me
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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Bloomin heck less than ONE acre for 12 horses?!!!! :-O
 
horsefeed said:
Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.
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Between your attitude to your livery clients and the the obvious lack of grazing for amount of horses on your land, i am astonished anyone chooses to place there horses in your yard.
Not a place id even consider for mine
 
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