Is this unreasonable? (livery related)

[jeeve]

The turnout thing would upset me - the school arena probably gets damaged if used when wet - when agisting we could never use the arena when wet

 

[myponywilliam]

I am kind of in the same boat as you.
The lane we have to go on to go hacking is flooded so we cannot hack out and we don't have a real school but a flat field to ride in and we can't go in that field because she said it needs resting for the summer. so there is no riding at all.
I now haven't riden in over a month and my pony is definetly getting on the fat side!
we are now looking for a new yard even thought the yard set up is great.

 

[DragonSlayer]

If I had a yard that was pretty decent and liveries didn't clean up after themselves in the school, I wouldn't close it, I'd just be in there daily skipping it out and just tell everyone the prices would be rising because of this. I wouldn't moan, I'd just get on with it. No-one likes it?

There's the gate.....

 

[tallyho!]

If I had a yard that was pretty decent and liveries didn't clean up after themselves in the school, I wouldn't close it, I'd just be in there daily skipping it out and just tell everyone the prices would be rising because of this. I wouldn't moan, I'd just get on with it. No-one likes it?

There's the gate.....

Exactly. You are providing a service after all and services cost money. I'd be expecting a tip too!! Lol!!

 

[Gingersmum]

Why do people need to close the school ? I understand if it's flooded it would be unusable but a surface of sand / rubber is not going to get damaged by being wet and having horses ridden on it ?

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think OP is right to be dissatisfied with the facilities but since the resolution (extensive work on the manège or fields on drainage) will cost more £££ than she or the other liveries are ever going to bring in then it is not something the YO is likely to have he power to change. Which means either the liveries agree to pay quite a bit more (I can't see the profit in what's being charged, going rate for the area or not, I could see it being realistic for DIY and bringing in/turning out but not with a school and def not with hay etc included, I think there's a time lag where YOs haven't reflected increased costs as other YOs haven't but there's going it have to be a big jump up sometime)....or the YO closes the yard.

OP either needs to find somewhere where the facilities are weatherproof or sit it out. It's not ok for her horse, but YO can't magic a solution to climate change and their stipulation is prob unavoidable given current weather conditions.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Hard being a livery yard owner. I rent stables with land. Every winter my fields get trashed. Spring comes round and I'm able to roll, harrow, seaweed, and spray. The grass grows again and then I spend all my time managing grass intake. I absolutely can't deal with my horses not being out. Be it them competing or just the happy hacker. It's not fair to the horses. Yes it's money and work to get things sorted in spring but that's what you do when you have horses.

However, a livery yard is trying to please everyone. Not an easy task. They do have to worry about more than I do. That said no way would I put my horse in a place where TO and work were non existent when we get normal crap winter weather. I've been on these shores near 13 years now. Other than the snowy winter it has always been the same. Endless muck and rain.

Terri

 

[Cortez]

That said no way would I put my horse in a place where TO and work were non existent when we get normal crap winter weather. I've been on these shores near 13 years now. Other than the snowy winter it has always been the same. Endless muck and rain.

Terri

Yup; you'd think people would have strategy in place by now, wouldn't you?

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

It's surprising to me alright.

Terri

 

[tallyho!]

Yup; you'd think people would have strategy in place by now, wouldn't you?

There are strategies which I think are doable and economical... Just that people are silo'd into the square grass paddock and 12x12 stable mentality still.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.

Anyone even considering being a livery with you with 12 horses on one acre of land needs their head seeing to....

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes its unreasonable, is there any grass livery or even just a field you could put a shelter in nearby?

Any-one who does this atm will soon understand why their livery yard decided to restrict turnout.
It is annoying and I wouldn't keep my horses where I couldn't get them out at all but the current weather is unusual and we are all having to compromise. Our horses are at home and trashing the grazing but that's our choice.

 

[tallyho!]

It'll grow back. It always does

 

[luckyoldme]

the first yard i was at sounded just like the ops.
It was terrible..right next to main trunk road with a school which was waterlogged most of the time. The landlord wanted the money for the stables but would nt allow hacking on most of the farm. there was only one other livery there while i was there so turnout was no problem. The horses are turned out on tiny squares of grass now, there is no way there is the grazing to support the amount of horses on the place. I would never ever compromise on turnout im only there for an hour a day ...the horse needs to be happy for the other 23.

 

[Voxhorse]

I can understand the OPs frustration, you want to ride and keep your horse fit. Not sure why anyone would get angry with the post, why can't someone speak out on what the weather is doing and what is happening as a result ?

Good luck OP...

Roll on spring

Vh

 

[Echo Bravo]

No it doesn't Tallyho, the weeds do, I let my 5 out on 3 paddocks that they lay waste during the winter, so that I can have some summer grazing for them and take a hay crop off. The paddocks they have been on I have to reseed every spring ready for the following winter, so I hate to think what YO/YM have to handle and I only have 8 acres.

 

[Queenbee]

Threads like this make me really angry! Sorry but most liveries needs to spend the week in shoes of a yard owner/manager. Like Honeypot says liveries moan about lack of turnout during the winter and if give them turnout during the winter they moan about lack of grass in summer!
I run a small yard only 3 liveries with 2 horses each plus my 6 horses, 2 of liveries have become firm friends and 1 is family so I am very lucky as a YM as they understand but previously I have had some nightmares!
I don't have a school, I have small lunging area which cannot be used when wet, I have less then 1 acre that 12 horses share during the winter and they get 4 to 6 hours turnout 4 days a week and a tiny yard area they get turnout on the other 3 days.
I am also on a very busy main road which is a major truck route so always busy. My moto is very much if you don't like it get out to be honest and since I have taken this stance both myself and current liveries have been alot happier.
Buy some decent hi-viz get to the yard, tack up and ready so as soon as dawn breaks you are riding out the gate, Its light enough by 7.10 now and I can get an hours hacking in and travel 40 mins to work and be there on time by 9am!
£50 a week for what you have is cheap, stop moaning and either move, hack early in morning and spent 45 minutes walking horse up and down car park everynight in front car headlights.

I wouldn't want to be on your yard, I have run yards and been a livery. I don't know any person that would set up a livery yard for 12 horses with one acre, and I don't know any livery who would want to be somewhere like that

 

[Queenbee]

Queenbee - you are lucky, I just can't work out how anyone could make that work, clearly they do - perhaps they inherited the property so no rent/ mortgage or are happy to work for very little income as they have income from another source just to have company on the yard - who knows.

I used to pay £100 a week livery 10 years ago and now (incurring all the costs of a yard myself) that the lovely people who ran that yard did so 356 days a year for far less than minimum wage.

I would assume they own the property outright, they cut their own hay, yo also teaches, so that helps I suppose. However, it's the going rate here. The average yard cost has always been £25-30 pw including hay where I live.

 

[Spring Feather]

I would assume they own the property outright, they cut their own hay, yo also teaches, so that helps I suppose. However, it's the going rate here. The average yard cost has always been £25-30 pw including hay where I live.

It's nothing to do with owning property outright (which means you've laid out a whole pile of money in one hit rather than covering a monthly mortgage) or cutting their own hay (which in itself is a business). It's purely what the market can bear so if everyone in an area charges an certain amount then most others have to scrimp along and charge similar rates, or they'd never get any clients. Livery costs are so out of touch with inflation and the cost of living in other areas of business, but that's why it's a vocation and not something any sensible person does to make their millions lol!

 

[tallyho!]

No it doesn't Tallyho, the weeds do, I let my 5 out on 3 paddocks that they lay waste during the winter, so that I can have some summer grazing for them and take a hay crop off. The paddocks they have been on I have to reseed every spring ready for the following winter, so I hate to think what YO/YM have to handle and I only have 8 acres.

Oh well we must have special land then as ours always grow back...

 

[ihatework]

It's nothing to do with owning property outright (which means you've laid out a whole pile of money in one hit rather than covering a monthly mortgage) or cutting their own hay (which in itself is a business). It's purely what the market can bear so if everyone in an area charges an certain amount then most others have to scrimp along and charge similar rates, or they'd never get any clients. Livery costs are so out of touch with
inflation and the cost of living in other areas of business, but that's why it's a vocation and not something any sensible person does to make their millions lol!

In some ways us liveries are a little bit like benefits scrounges that we often moan about. We expect yard owners to subsidise our hobby !

 

[tallyho!]

In some ways us liveries are a little bit like benefits scrounges that we often moan about. We expect yard owners to subsidise our hobby !

Lol and why shouldn't they... this having horses malarkey is an affliction and livery yards are mental asylums!

 

[Polos Mum]

Lol and why shouldn't they... this having horses malarkey is an affliction and livery yards are mental asylums!

I've always said horses were very much like a drug addiction!! Why on early would anyone sane pay out so much money to be cold wet smelly and muddy most of the time and then be stood on, kicked, nipped thrown off, on occasion as well as nevery being able to go out or stay away - we are all mad as badgers.

 

[tallyho!]

Yup!!!

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Livery costs are so out of touch with inflation lol!

Unfortunately so are most other peoples' salaries!

 

[Jnhuk]

OP - whereabouts in Scotland are you? I usually find this time of year I have to go out for lessons/training, hire local schools or competition venues for somewhere to ride. I keep my horses at home with no facilities and have sacrificial field which is looking more like a mud bath just now. Hacking round here is better than you by the sound of it but we are quite high so the weather can be truly awful. There have been times that I have just given up trying to ride Dec through to Feb/March with the weather and find making that decision takes away some of the stress trying to get even the essential daily chores done with the limited daylight and also working full time.

If there is no realistic alternative for livery within a certain radius, then you will have to continue at your yard until the weather improves and box somewhere for a nice hack and some in hand grazing as often as you can at weekends. I would also ask your YO what their plans are for improving the situation and I am sure that they will be aware that it is not ideal. If they have no plans for dealing with this issue for next winter then I would be more worried.

I personally would not be in a yard where there was no facility for hacking/turnout. I would always choose a yard for their turnout and hacking over schooling facilities personally.

This weather has been horrid but a cold spell is coming. Much prefer the frost to the mud!

 

[zaminda]

OP could you look at a DIY yard and then pay a freelance to cover one end of the day? Personally the lack of turnout would do it for me, but equally the lack of anywhere to ride on top is unreasonable. Is there a riding club which does training sessions near you that you could join? Lots of people without facilities do this near me.

 

[FairyLights]

Cant you move to a better place?

 

[Spider65]

I am aware that livery owners have a hard job and I do understand the need to look after the land. However I have an elderly horse who has had laminitis. I would like daily turnout and poor grazing. I get frustrated when the farmers worry about the land. They look after it very well and in the spring there will be too much grass. It happens every year. I am a good livery, I don't moan and just get on with it. But most yards round here are on farms. Not one of them will provide poor grazing as it looks horrible. Yet most horses are too fat. :/
So as usual my horse will stand in when weather bad ( couple times a week at the moment as live in the north where it rains a lot)
It will feel stiff when I can ride if it stood in and in the spring I will have to muzzle her as the fields will have lots of grass. Not ideal but I understand OP as the yard is great in other respects. I just wish that farmers and yard owners would remember that horses are not cows and good grazing is actually not good for a lot of them

 

[noodle_]

I am always honest when people view my yard, its very rare people moves yards during the winter as its too awkward moving quanities of feed and bedding etc and most will often postpone until whether improves, bedding etc runs out. People general will come and view spring/summer when I always have loads of grass and its dry and they disbelieve what I tell them thinking can't be that muddy and that I exagerate, then come winter and gets muddy they start moaning! I related 1 winter many years ago and used grazing up over winter and then in spring when took longer to recover they left anyway as no grazing so now I am very direct and blunt and to be honest it has made me and my liveries alot happier. We are a very happy and content yard and have no livery changes in 2+ years.
By being in YM shoes I don't think many people understand how much hardwork goes into making sure basic things run smoothly.

an acre turnout for 12 horses?! and no school!?

sorry but you would have to pay me to be on there!....

wow.


i pay on average £25 a week for stable/grazing and school.... which is good value imo..!

OP if your not happy - move....i dont mind moving onto a yard if i know theres no turnout - but i wont stand for being on one that refuses and turnout even on all weather....id be fine on a good all weather turnout bit in winter instead of grass as i full accept how bad britain weather is!