Is your horse 'good to do'? And would you compromise on manners on the ground?

Yes, I would compromise on manners on the ground. I have a horse to do a job, and the most important thing to me is that it does that job well. Being good to handle is a nice bonus, but if I was looking to buy something, I wouldn't be put off by the fact that it wasn't easy on the ground. Of my three, one is fairly easy to do, and the other two can be a bit more difficult. Not nasty at all, but young and sharp, so I'm careful about who handles them. My gelding is big and can be very strong and bolshy, and the little mare is a bit light on her front feet. And back feet, actually. :o She has been mistreated in the past, and can be very aggressive if she thinks you are having a go. And he is just a big thug. So manners are something we're working on, but I can't say that it's a deal breaker.
 
I certainly wouldn't compromise with ground manners now. As someone else has mentioned also, my two daughters spend a lot of time with our horses and liveries too and I feel completely at ease when they are around the horses.

That being said, I wouldn't write off small issues that could be worked on, but with my children and my age I would much rather have something with good stable manners even if that means compromising on other areas
 
I'm the complete opposite to the majority of you :o

Because of my riding accident a few years back I lost all my confidence, so can't do naughty Horses anymore when ridden. I can deal with spooking, mild napping and bucking but anything else is a huge no no as it terrifies me. However I have remained confident on the ground and love a challenge.

Mine is pretty easy, apart from a period over winter last year when she wasn't settling into a new yard. I thought it was quite fun, but was a pain because I couldn't ask anyone (apart from one friend whom I trust) to turnout/bring in if I was stuck.

I have sorted lots of her issues though, when I first got her she would bite hands when being lead, refuse to go into her stable, nap coming out of the field and barge out the stable. She no longer does any of them things and hasn't in a very long time.

We have 2 yearlings on the yard that can be a pain sometimes, I will always be the one asked to handle them as YO knows I like the challenge. I get enjoyment from seeing them benefit. I don't claim to be a whisperer or trainer or anything like that though. I'm just good with naughty Horses (unless ridden, then I turn to jelly :o) I don't get paid, just do it for my own enjoyment. So yes I would buy a Horse with bad ground manners but great ridden ones!
 
I would say mine is good to do. However she can be a git. If there's food anywhere, she will pull you over to it. She can be lead in just a head collar but she's constantly trying to graze on the way up - she's never ever been allowed to graze from verges not even as a foal but she always tries! She's simply stronger than you and she knows it.

The simple solution is to clip her rope onto the off side of her head collar and under her chin, threading it through the loop on the other side ah la stallion chain style. She can no longer dive for grass and although she sulks is much more managable. She can then be lead in with others and is a doll.

She also goes mental before going out, as soon as her travel boots are on she can't stand still, she paws, thrashes about. So solution is get her ready, boots on and then on as quickly as possible. But calmly. She's slowly getting better but she's too damn clever for her own good :p
 
Yeah I compromise... My GP dressage horse snapped and snarled in the stable and would bite u if you weren't watching your back but he was a dream to ride and safe as houses on board you could put a toddler on board - he was a dream to ride and taught me so much but although he was anyone's ride he was a ****** on the ground . A compromise I was very happy to make. We lost him earlier this year . He is sorely missed.
 
I think it completely depends on why you own the horse. If you own the horse to compete, do a specific job and perform consistently then I would say that could be a situation where manners may take a back seat in terms of priority.

For example, if I were in the market for a horse and came across a show jumping star but it so happened that it was bargy in the stable, I think I could live with that in order not to miss out on the talent. If that makes sense? If you own the horse to enjoy it's company then that's a whole other issue. I think manners in that situation are vital as you cannot enjoy spending time with a horse that walks all over you biting and kicking all the while, unless you are mental!

I own the first of the two examples! My horse has a lot of talent for show jumping with super blood lines and a lot of potential we've still to realise, but ..... He's a bit of a brat! He can be difficult for the yard staff to catch, he's kicked out with his front legs in the past, he passionately hates being brushed or bathed and is not shy to show it. Some of it is my fault. I've focused solely on getting him going well under saddle and have somewhat neglected his stable manners education, and as he has been handled day to day by yard staff (he's always been on full livery) I feel he hasn't had the consistent handling he should have had. However .... I will own this horse for the rest of his life and so feel no great inclination to spend hours and hours training him to behave on the ground. I think if I were planning on selling him on at some point I'd be more fussed to have him a bit more mannerly.
 
Okay, I just changed my mind. :mad: An hour after my last post saying that I didn't mind bad manners, I got a call from the pro who has my horse for training atm, saying that he couldn't work him today because he wouldn't be tacked up. I have suddenly decided that sanity on the ground might be important after all. :o
 
Hmm, I would say no but my 22yo who I've had since he was 4 is not THE best manners wise but it's not dangerous, he just knows his own strength shall we say. However, you generally know if he's 'planning' something as he has a 'look' in his eyes so if you're aware you can stop him before he does something naughty! Lol. However, once tacked up I would pretty much trust him with my life and he just wants to please so I guess he gets away with his cheekiness :-D On the other hand my old pony has wonderful manners on the ground but although by no means terrible ridden, he is/was a lot more quirky and unpredictable. I know which I'd prefer to be honest - I want a horse I can trust when I'm on board and have fun competing on
 
My Connemara has excellent manners on the ground. He is brilliant to lead, follows you around, picks up feet on cue, never budges an inch to be tacked up, good to bath, load etc. He is a chilled out pony! He does occasionally have moments of silliness, during winter he became rather fresh to turn out, solved quickly by popping on a bridle for a couple of weeks, but generally is a very good boy.

My welsh A...no he's also pretty good to be fair to him. He leads nicely (has a wicked spin when spooking though) off voice commands, doesn't barge, loads well, picks out feet etc well. The only issue really is his fidget bottom when tied up, and the way he makes a hysterical fuss about bathing. I just totally ignore him and get on with it, and he soon decides that standing still is the easier option. He can be a right git about washing his back legs, after having injections into his hocks, so that can result in a battle....He's also rather mouthy in general. He just has a lot more attitude than my other pony but he is a nice person and because I don't allow him to take an inch (or he will take several miles) most of the time he is good to handle.
Unless you are the vet....

I dislike bad manners and I would not want to own a miserable difficult horse despite talent, because I love horses as my pets not just to ride so ground manners are important to me. My welsh a is pretty feisty but never nasty which for me is the difference :)
 
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I don't mind them on the ground if I can work with them. My TB was a proper handful when I got him - biting, swinging round, wouldn't be groomed, wouldn't stand still for the farrier etc etc. 5 years on and I can do anything with him and my farrier commented yesterday that he wished all the horses he shod were like Baz. He's great with the dentist and vet too. I rug up without tying up and he is polite to a fault on the ground.

But it didn't happen by magic ;-)
 
I would compromise to a degree.

The last one we had was a saint 80% of the time. He was good in all ways on the ground other than the other 20% where he would suddenly decide he wasn't coming in, rear up & spin away from you, pull the rope out of your hand & ****** off. However he was an exceptionally talented pony, only 13.3hh. That we could cope with. If he had been a horse I'm not so sure.

The one we have now is also very talented, but has impeccable manners on the ground. Except at feed time when she will kick the crap out of the door :( it drives me nuts & I'm trying to just ignore but it drives me crazy. It's not dangerous though so I put up with it. I think as ladyt says above, I could compromise with 'cheeky' bad manners, but not dangerous ones xx
 
I wouldn't compromise to any great extent any more. My 23 year old gelding is a pain, if he thinks he can intimidate by pulling faces or bouncing on the lead rope he will. He had been mollycoddled by his first owner who used to just ask him to "be nice" in a sing-song voice -even if he was turning to nip or pulling faces. He has never been a problem for farrier or vet for jabs or to box or travel though. After I bought him he spent 9 months over one winter on box rest where he didn't handle the stress very well and would turn to bite when rugs were being changed. He was a problem on livery because he is also clever enough to open any gate latch or stable door, so whenever he escaped most people were afraid of handling him. No problem to catch, put headcollar on or lead, provided that you don't hold the lead close under the chin, he really hates it and will bounce up and stand up in full rear, but hold him like a dog on a lead and he plods along. He is also very possessive of me and chases all the others away when I go to give them attention, but he has never once misbehaved with my daughter even when she was only a tot.

All our others are mares and have impeccable manners in every way. Give me a mare any day.
 
Good manners on the ground are a must - my boy is 'quirky' and sensitive at times on the ground with certain things (e.g he isn't good to clip because he is so ticklish) but he is well mannered in the stable and when being groomed, etc.

I work with horses too and teach all of the horses to walk correctly to and from the field, to move over and have manners in the stable and when being handled in general. Horses are unpredictable enough as it is, and so basic manners are essential.
 
I wouldn't ever compromise on ground manners. My boy is faultless in this department. And it's lovely when vets/dentists/farriers comment on how polite he is (farrier loves that he doesn't have to be tied up, equine dentist knelt on the floor when she was doing his teeth and said she'd never do that with a horse usually, and my horse is the only one my vet will treat in the field) He's a gem at shows which helps with the nerves, and when I go away a completely non horsey friend looks after him and I don't worry and she has a great time looking after him. And finally when he's ill (like now) it makes all the hours, money spent and missed riding completely worth it as he's a delight to be around. And he's a just turned 7, 17hh, 3/4 TB, so he could have been horrible. Love him.
 
My mare is an angel to handle and always has been. Even down to pirouetting elegantly round while I open and close the gate - I never have to steer her through or pull her up while I close the gate, she just does it herself. I find very few horses do gates like she does, so I always get a surprise when bringing in/ turning out for other people.

Even when she has dizzy days, she is still easy to handle. So, she went through a phase of being scared of my YO's miniature Shetlands (we'd just moved on, she was unsettled, and she's never seen any before) and would have major tantrums when led passed their field. She would rear up, cow kick in their direction and generally leap about until well passed them. Reading that, most people would probably think "what a nightmare", but it was all very polite - she never pulled me about, knocked into me or generally made me feel unsafe in any way. It is a rare horse that you can feel 100% safe with even when it is misbehaving! Of course this didn't last, it was only while she was going through a very unsettled stage just after having moved yards. She is now turned out next to the Shetlands and is completely fine with them. But it's just an example of how easy she is to handle!
 
I hope all of you who are happy to compromise on ground manners if the horse is talented enough at its job all keep your horses at home and that you're the only people who have to handle them. :D

Having worked on yards before, I can say that there are few things as annoying as dealing with people's badly behaved horses day in and day out because the owner "[feels] no great inclination to spend hours and hours training him to behave on the ground." Minimum wage or indeed, nothing if it's a working student situation, is far too little to be paid to deal with someone's horse who doesn't want to be caught and boxes you with its front legs. But that's what yard staff get to deal with. When you're yard staff, you don't care if it's someone's pet who they don't ride for more than 10 minutes once per week or someone's GP dressage horse. You just appreciate the ones who make your life reasonably pleasant.

By far the worst place I worked was a dressage yard in Upstate New York where I spent a summer as a working student. The trainer had 12 horses at the yard, all wambloods imported from Germany. And they had atrocious manners. Every one of them. I remember trying to impress upon one fellow that all 17hh of him was not to run over me. The trainer saw me and laughed, saying (imagine a German accent), "These German horses, they are different from your horse. They can't be taught the same ground manners." Yes, I thought, the difference between my horse and your horses is that I sorted out the ground manners and you can't be arsed to teach them and have peons/sacrificial lambs who handle your horses anyway, so it's not your problem. What a douche.
 
Caol Ila said:
I hope all of you who are happy to compromise on ground manners if the horse is talented enough at its job all keep your horses at home and that you're the only people who have to handle them. :D
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Agree 1000 %.

Horses with bad manners are at best, time consuming for yard staff and at worst, dangerous.

A friend of mine, a YO spent weeks on life support after being kicked because a livery couldn't be bothered to train her horse and preferred the YO to turn out for a mere £1 a day.

No horse is too talented to be trained on the ground.
 
horserider said:
Agree 1000 %.

Horses with bad manners are at best, time consuming for yard staff and at worst, dangerous.

A friend of mine, a YO spent weeks on life support after being kicked because a livery couldn't be bothered to train her horse and preferred the YO to turn out for a mere £1 a day.

No horse is too talented to be trained on the ground.
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Yes, indeed. I should have said in the above post, "There are few things as annoying and dangerous for yard staff...."
 
The only fault with baby coblet is when it comes to his manly parts. Can do literally anything with him, other than fiddle with that area to clean. So that, yes, I don't mind compromising that one thing when he's a total gem with everything else :)
 
Completely agree with caol & horserider. I would never have expected anyone else to deal with our pony that liked to bog off, I was on diy so no-one needed too. If YO offered to fetch him in they did so knowing what he could occasionally be like, but again he was a pony not a big horse. If I was intending on buying a horse with ground issues & was on anything other than diy I think YO or whoever would be on charge of its daily routine should be consulted before buying x
 
Can't stand ill-mannered horses. I expect (and will enforce) good behaviour from mine, and as a result, they're all fine to handle. I'd buy a rude horse, but I wouldn't keep it that way...
 
Caol Ila said:
By far the worst place I worked was a dressage yard in Upstate New York where I spent a summer as a working student. The trainer had 12 horses at the yard, all wambloods imported from Germany. And they had atrocious manners. Every one of them. I remember trying to impress upon one fellow that all 17hh of him was not to run over me. The trainer saw me and laughed, saying (imagine a German accent), "These German horses, they are different from your horse. They can't be taught the same ground manners." Yes, I thought, the difference between my horse and your horses is that I sorted out the ground manners and you can't be arsed to teach them and have peons/sacrificial lambs who handle your horses anyway, so it's not your problem. What a douche.
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"What a douche." Too funny :D

This so struck a cord for me, I admit I had a little laugh, as I know exactly what you're talking about and I see it over here frequently. And I hear ALL the excuses. Interesting that some of those horses you've mentioned above come to live on my property and yes indeed they are hellions when they first come. Not for long though. And all these same horses "who can't be taught ground manners" somehow miraculously learn them at my farm!
 
The trainer told me that his highly bred warmbloods think differently and learn differently from the "other" horses. And that they are "too smart" to learn ground manners. Eh? The "other horses" on the yard being a paint, my fellow working student's TB, and my Shire-TB X. I was always tempted to tell him that I was pretty sure they were all members of the same species, but never had the balls as I doubt he would have appreciated it. You see excuses galore from ammy owners, of course, but one would think a pro dressage trainer wouldn't be such an eejit.
 
My horses are good to do most of the time and I really couldn't be arsed with one that wasn't. I also couldn't be doing with a horse that was vet, dentist or farrier phobic.

My tb mare and my friend's welshie are the sort of horses that will make faces at you but never follow through if you just crack on.

My IDx mare has perfect manners EXCEPT that she can be strong to lead in or out from the field. This is easily corrected by running the leadrope across her nose and I know where the habit probably started as she was previously owned by a friend of mine whose horses were all a bit that way.
 
Caol Ila said:
I was always tempted to tell him that I was pretty sure they were all members of the same species, but never had the balls as I doubt he would have appreciated it. You see excuses galore from ammy owners, of course, but one would think a pro dressage trainer wouldn't be such an eejit.
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I honestly think that too many people forget this. If people took the approach that they "are all JUST horses" then I think they'd find greater success.

There is a small equine rescue centre who work out of my farm. I have nothing to do with them as they just rent fields from me so they're on their own to a greater or lesser extent. I used to be forever hearing "oh but they've been abused and that's why they are like this" and I was forever replying that "they are just horses". Keeping them in this perpetual state of being "rescue horses" helps no-one, least of all the horse. I kept telling them to move on, move forward and the horse will follow, stop referring to them as "rescue horses", stop treating them as anything other than just a horse. I firmly believe a horse cannot move forward with a handler whose mind is stuck in the past. Anyhow, they have recently rehomed a number of horses and now are running with just a handful of horses which they've decided to put on full care livery, so I'm the one handling them every day now. Now please don't see this as blowing my own trumpet but these horses have improved immensely in just the short time I've been working with them. I assume it's because I don't see them as "rescue horses", they are "just horses" to me. Yes sure I take things a little slower than with the other horses but the end goal is still the same and the improvements shown with these horses is as I expected. I have to admit I actually couldn't wait to get my hands on them ;) These are horses that were beaten and abused and emaciated and who were purported to be terrified of people (and they sure looked it from what I viewed from afar), couldn't have their heads touched, couldn't have people making quick movements around them, were reluctant to lead, were unsafe to lead, were unpredictable blah blah. Well they aren't now. They are all decent upstanding equines now and all should easily find good adoptive homes in the near future.
 
I've bought horses who could not be called good mannered by any stretch of the imagination but we've taught them to be good mannered. And I don't mean that we beat them to a pulp. We make it easy for them to do the right thing and reward them for doing it. We are consistent in our view of what constitutes good manners which helps.
 
Spring Feather said:
I honestly think that too many people forget this. If people took the approach that they "are all JUST horses" then I think they'd find greater success.

There is a small equine rescue centre who work out of my farm. I have nothing to do with them as they just rent fields from me so they're on their own to a greater or lesser extent. I used to be forever hearing "oh but they've been abused and that's why they are like this" and I was forever replying that "they are just horses". Keeping them in this perpetual state of being "rescue horses" helps no-one, least of all the horse. I kept telling them to move on, move forward and the horse will follow, stop referring to them as "rescue horses", stop treating them as anything other than just a horse. I firmly believe a horse cannot move forward with a handler whose mind is stuck in the past. Anyhow, they have recently rehomed a number of horses and now are running with just a handful of horses which they've decided to put on full care livery, so I'm the one handling them every day now. Now please don't see this as blowing my own trumpet but these horses have improved immensely in just the short time I've been working with them. I assume it's because I don't see them as "rescue horses", they are "just horses" to me. Yes sure I take things a little slower than with the other horses but the end goal is still the same and the improvements shown with these horses is as I expected. I have to admit I actually couldn't wait to get my hands on them ;) These are horses that were beaten and abused and emaciated and who were purported to be terrified of people (and they sure looked it from what I viewed from afar), couldn't have their heads touched, couldn't have people making quick movements around them, were reluctant to lead, were unsafe to lead, were unpredictable blah blah. Well they aren't now. They are all decent upstanding equines now and all should easily find good adoptive homes in the near future.
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Absolutely agree with every word and the sentences I've highlighted should be the mantra of everyone who works with rescues.
 
I've found myself reflecting on this recently when faced with the in-laws horses who lack manners on the ground.

My yearling is wonderful and you can do most things with him, anyone can catch him, pick his feet out/groom/fly spray and feed him. He doesn't barge, bite or kick..

Gem my knabstrupper X TB (7 years) is different, she's a bit of an air head and can explode quite easily. We went through a stage of bringing her in on a chifney as it was safer than having legs everywhere (having been knocked out by her galloping straight into me). She's not nasty with it but she's just a complete air head and thinks after she's acted.
However, recently (the last year) she's really grown up and actually the other liveries at the yard can catch and turn her out - she's easy peasy to catch (comes to call) and she's getting the hang off thinking before she explodes now. I can bath her, clip (on my own), worm, fly spray her all without a problem. She's good to shoe, have the dentist, chiropractor and for the vet to see to her.

So yes, for a little while i compromised with somethings - the exploding.. if she did that EVERYTHING else had to be perfect.. there was no point in fighting with her, i knew it was something that eventually she would get over/grow out off and i believe having her on the chiffney for a short while really helped. She learnt she couldn't explode or tank off, she had to wait and deal with the issue - i haven't used the chiffney now for getting on for a year. She's a dream to handle 99% of the time.. just cheeky (pushing rugs/saddles/bridles of the stable doors, letting other horses out, un tying herself and others, helping to do her rug (nose in between your hands and rug etc).. :D

I also totally agree with spring feather, 9 out of 10 times the horse will move on from what has happened in the past. You can't wrap them up in bubble wrap because of something that has already happened, you have to move on.

This is currently one of the things i'm fighting with in-laws about (not literally fighting), they have a two year old that has had around 8 visits from the vet (within 12 months) doing things from castrating to taking a sample of lump from his lip to removing that lump - most of the time he was sedated for the vet.. Now because of that, every time a vet walks onto the yard he turns into a monster - very very bargy and hard to handle (walks through you).. they seem to think this is acceptable because poor boy has had so many awful things done to him - but in my eyes, he's not the only horse to go through lots of vet visits.. i feel its an excuse for bad manners. So atm, he has a towel (:rolleyes:) over his head when the vet comes.. not exactly practical..

Never mind :)
 
I like horse with manners, although I have no qualms about handling tricky ones. I normally insist on 100% good behaviour on the ground, although Alf gets away with murder. Difference is with him that he knows how he should behave, and does so most of the time. If he doesn't, a sharp word usually brings him back to heel. His misdemeanours are relatively minor - grabbing a mouthful of grass when i'm closing the gate, pretending to spook at things, and gumming my tshirt if I am chatting and not paying attention.

He generally goes everywhere with the rope over his neck, and is very easy - but I woldn't call him a dope on a rope, as he has been known to throw himself around if he's wound up, or there are dragons in the area.

He's currently into having a sneaky roll as we walk across the school to get to the field. I wouldn't allow it if I ever had to get anyone else to handle him, as he does get up and have a bounce about, but as its just me, I let him do it, and giggle helplessly at the bouncing. Silly old fool!
 
I have two horses, one is pretty much an angel, he's gentle, kind & generally easy to handle. I would let most people handle him & would have no reservations. The other one is a different beast all together. He can be lovely but he can be a real handfull as well. He's 16h2", he's powerful & sometimes he decides he wants to do something & that is when the issues start. We have has him 6 years & despite loads of training he is still very quirky. Only me, my wife or grown up daughter handle him just in case.

Why do we put up with it some of you may say, he is incredibly good at his work. His movement is wonderful, he does a nice dressage test & he jumps 1m30+ courses for fun......apart from that & despite his quirks my daughter loves him to bits. :)
 
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