Issues with horse bought from sales livery

[MissDean]

Hi,

I am having issues with a horse I bought on sales livery and would like a refund.

Is it correct that the dealer is not responsible for this as bought from sales livery? I was aware that the horse was on sale on behalf of an owner. Not sure where I stand legally!
thanks

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Your case is with the owner, not the agent/dealer. Sadly the owner is liable for any misrepresentation made by the dealer.

 

[shortstuff99]

It would be worth speaking with an equine solicitor as I believe the agent/dealer can also be held liable and not just the seller.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

It would be worth speaking with an equine solicitor as I believe the agent/dealer can also be held liable and not just the seller.

Sadly not in a friend’s case. She was held liable as the owner for the dealer‘s misrepresentations and had to pursue the dealer herself for damages after she had setttled with the owner. But totally agree, get legal advice specific to your case OP.

 

[Sail_away]

If it was on sales livery then unfortunately it is technically a private sale and so I don’t think you’d have any legal right to return the horse to the owner. It’s worth speaking to them on the chance they’ll take it back so it can go to a better suited home - but that’s expensive for them, logistically difficult during lockdown and they’re not obliged to. They may be able to give you some advice about the horse.

 

[Equi]

You're best talking to a solicitor who specialises in equine cases. If its sales it could technically count as private and many private sales are sold as seen so to speak..so unless its an issue you feel was not told to you at the time you may not have any case.

 

[shortstuff99]

According to this it depends on whether you knew it was an agent and what the agent promised you. https://www.tozers.co.uk/insights/buying-a-horse-via-an-agent

 

[MissDean]

Thankyou all. This is an issue I believe was known about although have no proof. I have lots and lots of videos of the horse before sale and no issues when tried out or at the vetting. Original owner and dealer say the horse didn’t have this problem and a few other people that have ridden the horse but I don’t believe it.

 

[Equi]

If there is no proof then unless you find some im afraid you need to clock it up to a bad experience. It would help if you told what the issue was ? Does the horse have a passport with previous owners listed at all?

 

[Melody Grey]

Is it anything that analysing bloods from vetting (hoping you had one) would clarify?

 

[MissDean]

The horse has bucked twice. Yes I had vetting done with bloods

 

[AmyMay]

The horse has bucked twice.

Is that the issue?

 

[MissDean]

Is that the issue?

Yes that’s the issue. I feel like this horse knows what she’s doing

 

[HashRouge]

How long have you had the horse?

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes that’s the issue. I feel like this horse knows what she’s doing

How big were the bucks and what were you asking at the time? Did you fall off? All horses know how to buck, depends on the reason why if it's a problem really.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yes that’s the issue. I feel like this horse knows what she’s doing

How long have you had it? In what kind of circumstances did she buck?
When you consider that the horse has moved (presumably) from its owners, to a sales livery then on to you, 2 bucks really doesn’t sound that awful.
Ive had horses I’ve owned or known long term play up moving yards. Might it just be unsettled?

 

[MissDean]

I’ve had the horse a week. I fell off the second time she did it. We were hacking in a field. Haven’t ridden since

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ve had the horse a week. I fell off the second time she did it. We were hacking in a field. Haven’t ridden since

But other people have with no issue?
Have you changed her feed? Changed her tack?

 

[ihatework]

Get yourself some lessons and a full tack check. Horses aren’t robots. Also cut out any hard feed for the time being.

 

[MissDean]

Other people had no issue apparently. Feed the same. Saddle not the same as one I tried her in but fits well, bridle the same

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Feed may be the same brand but are you feeding the same amount; is exercise the same amount, intensity and frequency; are you feeding haylege when the horse has previously just had hay; are you using a saddle that really does fit; have you got a thicker than normal pad underneath it that the horse is used to; is the riding standard the same........there are so many variables and a third home in a few weeks will be unsettling too. Two bucks isn‘t a returnable ’offence’.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think you will struggle to convince anyone that a horse bucking twice during the first week in a new home is grounds to return it. It’s unfortunate that you fell off, but she was probably being exercised daily whilst on sales livery and has come to a new home so everything has changed for her and this cold weather can make horses very fresh. Has the saddle been professionally fitted? Were you riding in company on the hack and she got excited?

 

[twiggy2]

Is the horse settled atthe new place, does it get turn out etc etc
Honestly 2 bucks and you want to send it back is a little harsh, a repeated rodeo maybe or rearing but a couple of fresh bucks at a new yard in cold weather (i am assuming?) I wouldn't worry about.
I would work the horse in the ground for a while and look to get an instructor involved my old instructor does lots online including nervous riders group zoom meetings, ground work, poles and lunging.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

When I got my pony I asked what tack they had, what bit, what feed, how much hay etc so I could get a general idea of how she was kept. Then I stripped feed right back to basics (gradually of course) had a physio session, dentist check, saddler and a bit fitter. Then lots and lots of lessons so I could learn with support how to ride the pony in front of me as they are all different and have their own quirks, likes and dislikes. For example my mare just won’t tolerate a novice using the reins to steer. But is very sensitive to use of body weight.

I know bucks can be off putting but I wouldn’t worry too much if that’s all they’ve done, the horse has had a turbulent time with new homes in quick succession. Maybe pay for an instructor to ride the horse first in lessons then you do the latter half of the lesson?

Also other people may not have had the issue, my mare will put in a tiny little rabbit hop of a buck for a novice because she knows if they’re nervous it’ll put them off and she will get away with not doing whatever it was they wanted her to do. She doesn’t even bother with me anymore because she knows the odd occasion she has done it I’ve worked her harder through it. So it’s perfectly likely you are seeing a slightly different horse to the riders that rode at the sales livery who do it for a job.

 

[MissTyc]

Have the temps dropped in the last week? I only ask as I know many enthusiastic horses who suddenly can't remember their manners when it gets suddenly cold.

The problem with "bucks" is it doesn't really mean anything. Horses leaps and round their back/lift their bum for so many reasons, ranging from excitement (not uncommon in an open field) to pain (of every type). Most horses learn that bucking is permitted in the field but not with a rider, and we call that manners. Many canny pony learns that a well-placed buck makes their rider less demanding, etc. Every horse will buckeroo if stung by a wasp in the wrong place at the wrong time ... Every horse "knows" how to buck.

 

[J&S]

I actually could not believe what I was reading there! Two bucks ! Why were you riding in a field? Surely a little potter down the road, quiet lanes etc would be a better start. Cold mornings, new horse, big field, (or even a small one) recipe for disaster.

 

[FourLeafClover]

I'm another feeling like two bucks in the first week of ownership, when so much has changed for the horse (home, tack, rider, feed, routine) isn't grounds for returning a horse/getting a refund unless the dealer specified that that was the case - ie if they are aware you were a nervous or novice rider and you had made it very clear that you wouldn't want anything that could buck/rear/bolt, and crucially that they agreed that if the horse was too much for you (based on demonstrating any of that behaviour in X amount of time) that you could return it. As fair as I know, dealers are selling the horse based on it's behaviour/record (as much as they know or have been told...) and are not guaranteeing that behaviour moving forwards as like other posters have mentioned, horses aren't robots and can always throw up a new behaviour when the circumstances change.

 

[AmyMay]

Riding in a field can be Uber exciting for even the most placid of horses, in fact I had one that I just couldn’t ride in a field.

I think that if this is your only issue, and having had the horse for such a short time, you need to rethink how you go about things.

 

[teddypops]

Riding in a field can be Uber exciting for even the most placid of horses, in fact I had one that I just couldn’t ride in a field.

I think that if this is your only issue, and having had the horse for such a short time, you to rethink how you go about things.

I only ride one of mine in fields. The others I have attempted to and it was scary!

 

[mini_b]

Saddle not the same as the one you tried her in but fits well...has this been checked by a saddle fitter?
It’s cold and many do play up in the cold.
Also bucking in an open field is likely to be excitement, did you try her in a field

For example, I tried my horse on the moor, on his own. I hacked him several times, cantered in open spaces, through woods, freezing sleet, on road etc. He was an angel.
When I moved him he started tanking off quite dramatically with me. No brakes whatsoever and plunging and spooking. But he didn’t do that before?!!
this horse has just moved from its usual routine to a new place. There is always *something* when you move a horse. They aren’t machines.

so you’ve moved her, then gone out in an open field in winter for your first ride and she’s bucked. I’d chalk that up to experience not a missold horse.

if it were mine I’d make sure saddle was fitted correctly, work in arena quietly or go out for a plod with company and build up her confidence in you