it was only a matter of time..

shysmum said:
my pony was on the receiving end of a kick from an aggressive horse - he suffered terribly until I found him and he was PTS.

I would certainly not be so forgiving if I found out that the kicker was known to be aggressive to other horses - it is your horse and you have a responsibility to protect others from it. The YO was stupid to let it share a field, yes, but the ultimate responsibilty for your horse's welfare is with you.

It takes a good aim to break another horse's leg.
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It was the YO's horse.
 
amymay said:
Sorry, should have been clearer - I don't understand why her future needs considering because even though what has happened is tragic, it was avoidable - and certainly not something you'd put a horse down over.
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jessika has frequently posted outlining the problems she has with this mare's ridden behaviour. She seems to have spent plenty of time and money trying to sort out a problem that the professionals can't get to the bottom of. The mare has become dangerous to ride, can be difficult to handle and has now, it seems, become dangerous to other horses in the field. Whilst she could perhaps live another 20 years in solitary confinement to me that is no life for a horse, therefore in that situation I would, if it were my pony, pts.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
jessika has frequently posted outlining the problems she has with this mare's ridden behaviour. She seems to have spent plenty of time and money trying to sort out a problem that the professionals can't get to the bottom of. The mare has become dangerous to ride, can be difficult to handle and has now, it seems, become dangerous to other horses in the field. Whilst she could perhaps live another 20 years in solitary confinement to me that is no life for a horse, therefore in that situation I would, if it were my pony, pts.
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I'm a little bit confused on timescales, and could be very wrong - but issues seem to have started around September this year. So not long ago. So whilst I agree with the right to have a horse/pony destroyed for any reason - it seems no time at all really in which to have done investigations and sought a solution.

Apologies OP if I'm totally wrong in my timings.
 
Wow! I'm sure she feels bad enough - without being lambasted on here. Poor girl has tried very hard to work out whats going on with the mare, and could probably do with being cut a little slack at the moment.
 
But the title of the thread is "it was only a matter of time" :confused:

Maybe it's lucky it was (only !!) the YO's horse, but what if it was someone who really was bothered about losing a beloved horse (and I would be) - and the owner of the kicker "knew it was only a matter of time" before her horse broke another's leg or similar ?

I am sure the OP has been through a lot with this horse, but there comes a time when you have to take stock, to protect other horses ? And in the top post she says that this horse has hurt so many people ? Surely enough is enough ?? If this horse was a dog.....

I'm sorry to be harsh, but breaking another horse's leg and ending it's life is dreadful.
 
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Dee O'Dorant said:
jessika has frequently posted outlining the problems she has with this mare's ridden behaviour. She seems to have spent plenty of time and money trying to sort out a problem that the professionals can't get to the bottom of. The mare has become dangerous to ride, can be difficult to handle and has now, it seems, become dangerous to other horses in the field. Whilst she could perhaps live another 20 years in solitary confinement to me that is no life for a horse, therefore in that situation I would, if it were my pony, pts.
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I remember you saying the same thing about my mare around 18 months ago. When I posted that she was becoming a pain barging out of the field because she was bored due to retirement. I solved the problem by doing more with her and now she has defied the vets and come 100% sound on her shoulder and is coming back into work. Though we have a hopefully temporary 'blip' with some hoof issues at present.
 
Gosh reading this has really made me think. My boy is turned out with another gelding and a mare. The mare's owner says her mare has been bullied by others but the only one i see doing any kicking in our field is her! Others have told me she can be temperamental too and known to lash out. Time for some serious consideration about whether i really want my boy in with her.....

So sorry to hear this though. At the end of the day, whether it is your fault for not insisting Ginger was on his/her own or the YO for putting another pony in with Ginger, an animal has died and you need to consider Gingers future. Seems you have sought professional help and no one has any cause or solution so what did they suggest?
 
OP really the YO should have separated your horse out from the others. I know I would have. It is not really up to the owners as it is the YO's responsibility to designate fields. I really do feel sorry for the poor pony though. It's a horrible thing to happen, but it was not your fault. I hope that the YO has made arrangements for her to have individual turnout. I have one such pony here. He cannot be trusted with others as he will run them down and batter them. As soon as I saw this behaviour, he was separated out. Owners have to pay extra for individual turnout though.
 
amymay said:
Again, on what basis?
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I did not necessarily mean OP should consider pts. Maybe just consider future on a yard or whether she would be better off finding grazing where Ginger is completely on his/her own or getting others pros to look and her. If the horse is aggressive and there is no reason why then something needs to be done even if it is just ensuring she does not get near others again.
 
Wagtail said:
I remember you saying the same thing about my mare around 18 months ago. When I posted that she was becoming a pain barging out of the field because she was bored due to retirement. I solved the problem by doing more with her and now she has defied the vets and come 100% sound on her shoulder and is coming back into work. Though we have a hopefully temporary 'blip' with some hoof issues at present.
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IIRC you said how bored and miserable and dificult she was becoming in her retirement. I suggested if she was that miserable and not coping with retirement and couldn't get back to work there was the option of pts. However you are an experienced and determined owner with the opportunity to do more with her, if she is responding well then that's fantastic, hopefully the hoof issue is a blip.

However as a YO if one of your younger liveries had a mare that was giving her great difficulties, that she could not manage to work more frequently, that had become dangerous to ride and handle, that she'd taken lots of professional advice about and that had just broken the leg of your pony I suspect your advice might be more along the lines I took.
 
Sam_1985 said:
I did not necessarily mean OP should consider pts. Maybe just consider future on a yard or whether she would be better off finding grazing where Ginger is completely on his/her own or getting others pros to look and her. If the horse is aggressive and there is no reason why then something needs to be done even if it is just ensuring she does not get near others again.
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Ah, righto.

Little horse just needs to be turned out alone - not segregated completely.
 
amymay said:
I'm a little bit confused on timescales, and could be very wrong - but issues seem to have started around September this year. So not long ago. So whilst I agree with the right to have a horse/pony destroyed for any reason - it seems no time at all really in which to have done investigations and sought a solution.

Apologies OP if I'm totally wrong in my timings.
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I had a quick look back. Problems seem to have been happening from at least June. I just feel that for a (presumably) young owner this mare is too difficult and her behaviour is deteriorating. jessika had wondered about selling her but various people pointed out that the mare was a liability and jessika shouldn't be passing her on. If she can't pass her on and she's deteriorating and she's now got to be turned out by herself so she can't be kept with much quality of life then there is an obvious solution.

JMO of course.
 
I am very sorry to read this post. I am of the opinion that it is the YO responsibility to keep the other horse on her yard safe, and by putting her pony in with yours, she does so at her own risk.

On my yard we had a shire gelding who was a bully. He was kept alone but one night got in with my pony and friends horse. Next day friends horse was very lame and shire was separated again. YPO never complained, just built him a larger field with a higher voltage fence. All was well for months and then he got out again, though numerous fences and over a wooded fence into our neighbours yard we he kicked and elderly pony to death. YO was mortified but happy that she had done everything in her power. She then found out that the shire had been onto the neighbours land a couple of times previously and the owner had never said. She got her notice to leave the yard as she was more than happy to do what was neccesary to keep other safe, but the owner and lied and a poor helpless pont killed.

I think as long as the YO is aware of what your horse is like, it is up to them to turn them out somewhere appropriate.

With regards to the horses future, I don't know the answer to that one I am afraid. But I wish you the best with what ever decisions you make xx
 
We have a horse (mare) on our yard whose kick broke the leg of another horse (gelding)in the field........ We thought it was just one of those things as horse is fine being ridden/handled/brought in/turned out etc..... however some months later another fight happened (about 4 of us saw, and I was one of them) Neither mare was backing down and they only separated when we ran in with arms flailing and shouting! 1st mare fine, 2nd mare bad cut with blood pumping out. She was on box rest for 3 months but before the vets even arrived the owners of the 1st mare (who had previously kicked and broken the leg of another) had already asked the YO NOT to turn the horse out with ours ever again.

Mare now goes our into a smaller field and she is as happy as larry as are we so no need to PTS JUST because of this tragic accident as it is AVOIDABLE in the future........

Good Luck OP!
 
If she was mine (not knowing history but basing on your wording that it was expected), she would not be turned out with other horses again for now. If recent behavioural problems I'd expect these to be gone and with reasoning (ie medicated, back fixed etc) before even considering. I'd get her or the other horse out the field immediately.

And I wouldn't segregate but equally I've seen a horse take out post and rail fences and gates to get to another horse, so would put temp electric up a foot or so in her side if she was mine.

Any horse can kick and get a leg. It's either very good aim... or a fluke placement. But until her current behavioural issues were corrected I'd keep alone, and ALWAYS tell owners of horses in her field in the future her history before any horse goes out with her.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
IIRC you said how bored and miserable and dificult she was becoming in her retirement. I suggested if she was that miserable and not coping with retirement and couldn't get back to work there was the option of pts. However you are an experienced and determined owner with the opportunity to do more with her, if she is responding well then that's fantastic, hopefully the hoof issue is a blip.
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No I never said she was miserable, ever. But I wasn't offended at the time or now. I am just saying how inappropriate advice on here can be, and PTS is such a serious suggestion that it may not be at all appropriate to make it. After all we are talking about an animal's life.

However as a YO if one of your younger liveries had a mare that was giving her great difficulties, that she could not manage to work more frequently, that had become dangerous to ride and handle, that she'd taken lots of professional advice about and that had just broken the leg of your pony I suspect your advice might be more along the lines I took.
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I have suggested it (though not directly, more said something along the lines of, 'you know, no one would think badly of you if you decided to let him go'. But this was a horse that had broken my finger, dislocated another livery's shoulder and was unridable, had kissing spine and box walked for England. Was totally unpredictable too. I said that after he had been here two years and there had been no change, nor would there be. In the end I said I was not prepared to have him here another winter if either she didn't give him a job to do or get to the bottom of his problems. However, in the OP's case, I would encourage her to keep trying to get to the bottom of the mare's behaviour as I believe it has been realatively recent, and in the meantime would insist she had individual turnout. I may think differently if it were me having to handle her and she was a danger. But if on DIY, that would be up to the owner.
 
How awful, why did yo allow the horse in with two others..... If op is young maybe yo wouldn't listen regardless of what op ask/said ??

I was on a yard with a horse that had attacked three others , killing one of them. She was last out, first in , everyone was made aware that you didn't go in her field and if she ever go out or in with another horse you called the owner who was the yo. They had treble elec fencing on posts then another row of fencing and plastic posts a few ft into her field all the way around and plastics posts into the too of the wooden posts and a row of electric fencing all the way around.

Thank goodness she hasn't got in with anything, there was a great relief when she left the yard.
 
Sorry for no replies i have been out all day...

Her agression has eased off alot since she has been on hormone medicine and she has become rideable again, although not nice to ride she isn't 'as bad'

Her aggression to other horses was mainly over food and it was running at them with teeth bared, again, this has not been as often

i am not entirly sure why so many have been quick to inform me its all my fault, i know it is, im not denying that, but as there was another pony in the field and no1 saw what happended we will never truly know
 
I don't think it's your fault. Really it's up to the yo to assess the turn out situation and since it was their pony it was clearly their decision not yours.

Separately to this incident is the fact the mare doesn't sound very happy and neither do you. If she is making your life a misery and is unsellable (she sounds as if she is) then I would personally consider having her pts.

I would either way however keep her in her own field without other horses, doesn't sound like she appreciates sharing with other horses anyway and that would make you feel less worried.
 
jessikaGinger said:
Sorry for no replies i have been out all day...

Her agression has eased off alot since she has been on hormone medicine and she has become rideable again, although not nice to ride she isn't 'as bad'

Her aggression to other horses was mainly over food and it was running at them with teeth bared, again, this has not been as often

i am not entirly sure why so many have been quick to inform me its all my fault, i know it is, im not denying that, but as there was another pony in the field and no1 saw what happended we will never truly know
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If hormones and this bad, perhaps removing ovaries or something? Worth talking through with vet all viable options.

The title and OP are what everyone is 'attacking' on. Whether accepting it's your fault or not, you opened by saying you expected it to happen, but a horses life had to end before anything was done. I think it was a badly worded opening.

Are you going to separate/put in with different horses? Irregardless of yours or other pony in field... one of them has killed another horse. I wouldn't be happy with mine out with any bar my own, and only the heavy broodies at least initially. And I wouldn't be happy with pony out with mine if I wasn't 100% who did it.
 
How heartbreaking that another horse has had to lose its life :( You'll never be 100% sure if there is another pony in the field. Do you get numpties coming to feed your ponies when you've gone for the day? If shes funny about food someone bringing the odd good will apple or carrot... sometimes its worth spending a bit of time with a good book to see how your horses are behaving when your not doing stuff with them.
 
I know horses will be horses BUT I am aghast for the other poor sod that lost its life and in agony no doubt with broken leg. Forget ginger sounds like should be PTS if she is non treatable or whatever is the issue. If she cant be kept on her own has to go. Sorry to sound harsh but got lost reading first few threads and my instant reaction was the other horse.
 
Playing devils advocate (and whilst I have read each page it was skim reading;))

But did anyone actually see what happened?

Sadly horses do break legs for what appears to be no apparent reason, and I speak from experience of having a horse shatter her pastern in the stable when she got up.

Not saying that the horse shouldnt be segregated - but is there any proof that the other horse was kicked by JG's horse?
 
i would imagine jessika feels bad enough over this whole episode without people here berating her too:(
Horses do not deliberately set out to break another horses leg, :rolleyes: they don't think that way. my old tb lost her life to a broken leg after a neighbours horse got into my field overnight, did i blame them or their horse?, no because sadly sometimes things like that happen:( it was devastating at the time but no one was to blame.

i'm sorry you;ve had to go through this jessika.
 
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