It's all my fault for keeping my dog on a lead, is it?

Got to say for once I agree with you Bonny - I never seem to have the massive problems that others encounter, either with my dogs being attacked or attacking others. It’s a mystery to me how I’ve managed to avoid it all my life.
 
Although I can understand the desire to lift up your dog, besides that it can trigger things, how does it work in a situation when/if you meet a really big dog?

I have 3 around my knees high bitches, so I can't lift them all up at the same time anyway. But as it happens, the last time a dog approached us unwantedly, was 2, 3 years ago, and it was actually an adult St. Bernard! I'm only 164 cm, his head was around my waist in height, even with all 4 paws still on the ground.

But I did what I always do in such situations (ETA they haven't happened that often), gathered my girls behind me, and kept myself between them, and the unwanted approaching dog (/or dogs). The St. Bernard didn't really want to mess with a human, without only other dogs, so when he eventually realised that I wasn't going to budge, he decided to listen to his owner.
 
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I'm not sure why Lev has decided to have a pop at me on this thread, which was about whether dogs whether on leads provoke aggression in other off lead dogs.

Lev, as an experienced dog owner you know darn well that if you don't have full recall in a public place your dog should be on a lead. Apparently though it's all right because she only buggers off after vermin and wouldn't hurt a fly otherwise. Instead she's rampaging around unseen doing god knows what for 10 mins plus.

Also, if an uncontrolled dog hurtled up to me looking like it was going to attack us I would probably kick out at it in defence, so it could indeed end up with a broken jaw. Tough.
 
It is when you come across the person "walking" 2 large dogs, during ground bird nesting time, on a Forestry commission managed common. Both dogs home in to attack, not once but 3 times before we could leave the common - ok not a dog but a pony and carriage with a disabled driver on board! - The man could not put them onto leads as he did not have one! We offered our emergency lead rope from the spares kit but he did not have any collars either! There was no attempt made to control the dogs or apology either. He even had the nerve to wave to us as he drove off when we took the next driver out on the roads to avoid him on the common.
 
The man was a idiot. It is true however that being on lead does change a dogs behaviour.
Usually the on lead dog can become more aggressive as it may feel defensive because it cant get away.
That doesn't mean its wrong to have your dog on a lead!
Its the most sensible and safe thing to do to keep your dog safe and out of trouble.
i would protect my dogs if in a situation that needed it. Breaking a jaw does seem excessive but difficult to say if that force was warranted or not as none of us were there at the time.
I must say that I always thought ex racing greyhounds were supposed to be muzzled when free in public to protect small dogs etc.
I think most of us would do what it takes to protect our dogs uf they were being attacked.
 
It’s all very well expressing incredulity about dog attacks, but all it takes is one to happen to you to make you extremely wary. I spent a long time socialising my small dog to make sure she wouldn’t be afraid of other dogs, and I used to always allow her to say hello to other dogs if appropriate when out walking. Unfortunately, watching another dog try to rip her to shreds has put a stop to that. I can only hope that the rest of you are lucky enough that it doesn’t happen to you, and that you never feel the need to protect your dog from other dog and can walk with peace of mind.
 
I must say that I think it sounds like a bad idea to really kick towards an unwantedly approaching dog. While you kick, you will be standing on only one leg, which makes you more vulnerable for being knocked over, and it sends a visible signal of that your body is not in balance.

Seems much better to me, to stand with my legs a bit apart, so that I'm steady on the ground, stand as straight as possible, inhale to make my chest a bit broader, think about using an as low as possible voice, and simply deciding that anyone wanting to get to my dogs, have to go through me first.

It must have been a Winter 15 to 20 years ago by now, when I was out walking Raya (Smooth Collie), and Humla (Norwegian Buhund), and my mum was a bit behind me with Nessie (also a Buhund), when 2 Dogue de Bordeaux ran out from a house we had passed, and went for Nessie from behind. Unfortunately, Nessie slipped on some ice, and was easily knocked over.
I ran back, and I did use my legs to sort of kick, but I kept my feet close to the ground, and more pushed, shoved with my knees at the most aggressive dog's ribs, and rather quickly got myself between the Dogue de Bordeauxs, and Nessie.

To be absolutely honest, I seem to be the most sinister on this thread. If the Dogue de Bordeauxs had gotten a hold on Nessie, and didn't back off at my first intervention, I made a plan B up in my head as I ran towards them. Plan B was about how to either try to grab the most aggressive dog's collar, and twist it, or get one of my leashes high up around its neck, so that I could use the collar or leash, to choke it.
But it turned out that Nessie was wriggling so much, that they hadn't gotten a hold on her.

Supported by that instead of calling the Dogue de Bordeauxs back to them, their owners had came up to try and grab their dogs to haul them away, their dogs tried again to get to my dogs. But I did the same as I later did with the St. Bernard, gathered mine behind me, and just kept my body between their dogs, and my dogs.
 
you don't always have time to analyse the best way to stand when your dog underneath another dog, screaming in fear while the attacking dog tries to take mouthfuls out if his abdomen. so I went in boots first and I've never felt bad about it for a moment. my dog was on his lead, the other dog slipped his halti to attack him a couple of minutes after we had passed on opposite sides of the road. I'm also not about to tick off the owners at that point.
I'd do it again-its not wise but tbh I'm likely to bring on the psycho whatever is attacking me and mine, its saved me in the past against dogs (and aggressive men!).


oh, and those of you who have never had to put up with aggressive dogs or a dog attack-lucky you! I'd not wish it on anyone.
 
Sandstone1 said:
i would protect my dogs if in a situation that needed it. Breaking a jaw does seem excessive but difficult to say if that force was warranted or not as none of us were there at the time.
I must say that I always thought ex racing greyhounds were supposed to be muzzled when free in public to protect small dogs etc.
I think most of us would do what it takes to protect our dogs uf they were being attacked.
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I agree totally, I wouldn’t hesitate to protect my dogs (from other dogs or from humans!), however I wouldn’t lose my temper and behave in such an inappropriate way. I’ve had greyhounds a long time and have seen all kinds of situations, that sort of injury is never warranted.

Ex racing greyhounds are usually muzzled when being walked by charities etc for insurance reasons, but there is certainly no requirement to always muzzle them, any more than there is a requirement to muzzle whippets, lurchers, Salukis, borzois or any other sighthound you can think of.

I’ve had greyhounds with a strong prey drive who have always been muzzled, I’ve had greyhounds (and lurchers) who have never been muzzled with me as there is absolutely no need. As with every other breed, some present a potential danger to other dogs and some don’t
 
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Remember that most dog walkers you meet are just pet owners, and not dog trainers. I put myself firmly in the pet dog owner camp. Maybe I may respond in what you trainers and experts deem to be an inappropriate way if I think that we're under attack, but we shouldn't ever be put in that position, should we, if folk would only keep their own damn dogs under control.
 
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Tiddlypom said:
Remember that most dog walkers you meet are just pet owners, and not dog trainers. I put myself firmly in the pet dog owner camp. Maybe I may respond in what you trainers and experts deem to be an inappropriate way if I think that we're under attack, but we shouldn't ever be put in that postion, should we, if folk would only keep their damn dogs under control.
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True. And if folk would only keep their dogs under control I wouldn't have to deal with the frail old lady with osteoporosis, knocked down by two rampaging dogs who were off lead and out of sight of their owner, in a conservation area. Or the riders whose steady cobs were chased by an Irish Wolfhound puppy who "only wanted to play", causing them to bolt through the woods. Or the farmer the other night who rang me because his sheep had been run ragged after a walker lost their two Labradors for three hours, having let them off their leads. On that occasion the dogs could easily have been shot dead - overreaction by the farmer? Nope.

It comes down to manners and consideration. If you can't control your dog off lead, don't let it off.

And if your dog(s) are on leads and under control, you have every right to defend yourself and them from aggressive approaches from other dogs.
 
I am sick to death of dog owners who cant or wont control their dogs, then blame ME when things get out of hand!
Last week I was walking my 3, they were on leads as we were nearing a road, man approached with 5 dogs all loose, charging about barking etc, so I waited until he had seen me, then moved off the track to be well away from his dogs. He made no attempt to call them back, they all came charging over, growling, barking etc. One of mine is very elderly, one just a puppy, they were terrified. He made no attempt to call them off, apologise etc ...... for once I didnt let rip as I wanted to try and stay calm and quiet for the puppy ..... not a good experience for her. Makes me so mad and happens so often!
 
MotherOfChickens said:
you don't always have time to analyse the best way to stand when your dog underneath another dog, screaming in fear while the attacking dog tries to take mouthfuls out if his abdomen. so I went in boots first and I've never felt bad about it for a moment. my dog was on his lead, the other dog slipped his halti to attack him a couple of minutes after we had passed on opposite sides of the road. I'm also not about to tick off the owners at that point.
I'd do it again-its not wise but tbh I'm likely to bring on the psycho whatever is attacking me and mine, its saved me in the past against dogs (and aggressive men!).


oh, and those of you who have never had to put up with aggressive dogs or a dog attack-lucky you! I'd not wish it on anyone.
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Tiddlypom said:
Remember that most dog walkers you meet are just pet owners, and not dog trainers. I put myself firmly in the pet dog owner camp. Maybe I may respond in what you trainers and experts deem to be an inappropriate way if I think that we're under attack, but we shouldn't ever be put in that position, should we, if folk would only keep their own damn dogs under control.
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I'm definitely no dog trainer, without only an ordinary pet dog owner like most others. But as I mentioned in my first reply, I'm only 164 cm, so when we talked about how our body language affect dogs during puppy, and follow up puppy, classes, it made sense to me, to try to learn how to best react in a situation when/if another dog goes for your dog. Especially since dogs are not robots, and does not always behave they way they usually do.

I'm also not a robot, sometimes my brain cease to function, and I behave completely headless around dogs. But like with other emergencies, it can help if you have at some point, thought through potential scenarios on beforehand, to prepare yourself for that things can happen.

And lets face it, the only way I'm going to win in a fight against 2 Dogue de Bordeauxs, is by using attitude, and my brains. If I had tried to really kick one of them in the head, or somewhere else, I'm not sure it would even have gotten a bruise. In a muscles fight, they would have won over me every day in the week, and it wouldn't have been long, before Nessie hadn't been able to wriggle fast enough any more.

Since we can only affect our own behaviour, and not others, instead of those saying that this is how I reacted, and in a similar situation, I would do the same again, why not even consider if there is something you might be able to do differently, which could benefit you in a similar situation?
 
The owner of the GSD is an ar$ehole.

A dog can be on its lead for a number of reasons: deaf, blind, fearful, ill, poor recall, reactive. It is common courtesy not to allow an off lead dog to approach, however friendly the owner may deem it to be, but especially if the pratt knew his dog would react.

The GSD owner should also bear in mind that his dog could be badly injured if it approaches the "wrong" dog. As I have already said on the forum, a local dog was recently PTS for attacking and badly injuring another dog. The aggressor was on her lead but not muzzled.

I have had 2 dogs attacked with intent and without provocation. One was lucky to escape with puncture wounds to his neck, he was a Rough Collie saved by his thick mane. The other dog was lucky to escape with her life. She was badly mauled and lost muscle tissue from her back in two places. It was a predatory attack with intent to kill. There were no preliminaries with either attack - just straight in, silently.

I would not hesitate to take whatever steps were necessary to defend my dog if he were attacked.

I want to be clear that I am not talking about bluster, a noisy scuffle or a nipped ear which can be dealt with in a more measured way. I am not referring to a fight but an all out dog attack - an aggressor and a helpless victim.

With all due respect to others who have posted about text book ways of dealing with the aggressor, these attacks happen in seconds.

The vicious dog with intent to kill is not going be deterred by a barrier of human legs or verbal chastisement. Perhaps you could choke a dog off if it was a bite and hold but taking into account that a dog can bite 25 times in 5 seconds, and the attacking dog is not going to stand meekly for you to get your hand through its collar, then I would take a more direct approach. It would also not be a good idea to try to pull a dog off your dog when it has a mouthful of your dog's flesh as this would result in further injury.
 
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One reason for dogs on leads getting attacked is they are often attached to an owner giving off panic vibes, and therefore maknig the dog on the lead panic too. My mother could start a fight between two dogs at any time, because she is always sure it is going to happen, so often it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Not supporting GSD owner at all, and I never let my dogs approach an on lead dog as I always assume it is aggressive. If I meet another dog off lead I assume it is OK and let mine greet it. It works most of the time!
I am also lucky in that I rarely meet any strange dogs on our walks.
 
Black Beastie said:
Your attitude that I should leave my dog to be torn apart disgusts me so we shall just have to disgust each other shan’t we? You won’t shame me so go look for a fight elsewhere ;)
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I too would kick the living Bejesus out of any dog that was intent on killing mine, and have done so. I don't care if it is just being a dog!
 
My family and I have been in situations when our well behaved dogs, on lead, have been bitten by bigger and heavier dogs that ran straight at them with no warning.

First time, the owners saw what was happening and made no attempt to help; just disappeared as fast as they could, leaving my relative with her 2 young kids, one of whom had a bitten hand and the other one was screaming in fright, plus her dog with a piece torn out of its flank.

Second time, I saw no owner at all; the dog just ran round a corner and bit the dog I was walking.
My relative's dog is let OFF the lead around other dogs, when away from roads. It is very well behaved, to the extent that the local dog walker used it to help socialise other dogs that were nervous.
We would rather it can take its own evasive action, it will react faster than a human can and keep itself safe rather than being trapped at the end of a lead.

Made me think of the Buck Brannaman video, towards the end, when he is boxing up the abused and violent palomino colt. He uses flags to move it and keep it at a safe distance, by waving them quickly.
I think in a tight spot I would try that; do all the "NOT this way mate" body language - which has worked for me, but is a bit scary to do when an unknown dog is coming your way with head down and a death stare!
Then if the body language didn't work, whirl a lead/rope/stick around, fast, between self and dog.

One of my relatives now takes a very stout walking stick with him when dog walking - maybe he'd whirl it about, though knowing him I suspect it might well make quite firm contact with any aggressive dog. And its owner too.
 
skinnydipper said:
...

I have had 2 dogs attacked with intent and without provocation. One was lucky to escape with puncture wounds to his neck, he was a Rough Collie saved by his thick mane. The other dog was lucky to escape with her life. She was badly mauled and lost muscle tissue from her back in two places. It was a predatory attack with intent to kill. There were no preliminaries with either attack - just straight in, silently.

I would not hesitate to take whatever steps were necessary to defend my dog if he were attacked.

I want to be clear that I am not talking about bluster, a noisy scuffle or a nipped ear which can be dealt with in a more measured way. I am not referring to a fight but an all out dog attack - an aggressor and a helpless victim.

With all due respect to others who have posted about text book ways of dealing with the aggressor, these attacks happen in seconds.

The vicious dog with intent to kill is not going be deterred by a barrier of human legs or verbal chastisement. Perhaps you could choke a dog off if it was a bite and hold but taking into account that a dog can bite 25 times in 5 seconds, and the attacking dog is not going to stand meekly for you to get your hand through its collar, then I would take a more direct approach. It would also not be a good idea to try to pull a dog off your dog when it has a mouthful of your dog's flesh as this would result in further injury.
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I never thought it would be easy to choke a dog, nor was I sure I would be successful. But considering my disadvantage in size, weight, strength, and numbers, making me trying to use what you call a more direct approach probably pointless if they had already gotten hold of Nessie, and since an experience with Raya had taught me that a dog who is choking on a gnaw bone/ball or similar, and you can't get it out no matter what else you try, then once the dog starts to pass out/passes out, you can open their jaws easier, and wider, than when they're wide awake, so in the heat of the moment, not yet knowing if they had gotten hold of Nessie or not, it seemed like a plan B worth trying, if needed.

By the way, I heard that the more aggressive Dogue de Bordeaux was euthanised awhile later, due to that other aggressive incidents happened.
 
FinnishLapphund said:
I never thought it would be easy to choke a dog, nor was I sure I would be successful. But considering my disadvantage in size, weight, strength, and numbers, making me trying to use what you call a more direct approach probably pointless if they had already gotten hold of Nessie, and since an experience with Raya had taught me that a dog who is choking on a gnaw bone/ball or similar, and you can't get it out no matter what else you try, then once the dog starts to pass out/passes out, you can open their jaws easier, and wider, than when they're wide awake, so in the heat of the moment, not yet knowing if they had gotten hold of Nessie or not, it seemed like a plan B worth trying, if needed.

By the way, I heard that the more aggressive Dogue de Bordeaux was euthanised awhile later, due to that other aggressive incidents happened.
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As I said, you may be able to choke a dog off in a bite and hold situation. Dog attacks can be fast moving and more frenzied, as in the case of the attack on my lurcher, she sustained multiple bites in seconds. I am 160 cm and slightly built but would do whatever I deemed necessary to protect my dog.

She was a previously happy go lucky, dog friendly dog who was off leash (following the attack she was, understandably, very nervous around other dogs). She tried to run away and was attacked from behind. My other dog was attacked when sitting quietly by my side, the 2 Staffies who attacked him did bite and hold but had no collars (I have posted about this previously)
 
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At the end of the day, if it's not under control - that is, recalls at the first command - it shouldn't be off leash outside your own, secure property. All it would take is for people to stop thinking they're the exception to rule, and these sorts of incidents wouldn't happen - but people are generally pretty rubbish.

Levrier said:
Oh I’m not “looking for a fight” - if I were, I’d be looking for people of my own level 😊
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Well that's uncalled for and unnecessary.
 
Levrier said:
So is breaking a dog's jaw in a fit of rage, however acceptable people on this thread appear to find it
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If that is what it takes to save my dog's life, then so be it.
And if my dog was killed or very seriously injured in an unprovoked attack, then as kitteninthetree says the other dog wouldn't need any vet care afterwards.
 
Watching your dog being viciously attacked by another is a horrible experience. I saw our family dog being attacked and killed by a GSD when I was a child, and I've never forgotten it. No way would I do nothing if mine were attacked, and realistically the best and only thing you can use is your feet, unless you have a stick in your hand.

I never blame the dog for its bad behaviour, only the owner, but it's ultimately the dog that will suffer if it's not under control. And that, I'm afraid, is tough for the dog, but wouldn't stop me doing what was necessary.
 
bonny said:
Some of you seem to inhabit a different world, full of crazy, aggressive dogs who are only intent on doing you or your poor dogs harm ! I walk my dogs off lead, often in busy areas, and never seem to encounter any problems with other dogs. I would say just about every dog I meet is also off lead, every owner is a normal human being, often stopping for a chat or a friendly greeting and all is well.
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Yes and that dog is mine. Looks like an angel, is terrified of other dogs after being attacked as a youngster and now feels he has to get in there first. Soppy springer. Not.

I am obsessed with keeping other dogs away from him because I don't want them (or him!) hurt or for the poor owner to be traumatised. He goes on the lead if other dogs approach. Today was fun, in the park, a Samoyed I've never seen appeared, along with bouncy lab and Rottweiler, whose owner knows to steer clear. It was chucking it with rain, I could barely see.

I'll leave the area rather than risk a run in with an owner who won't/can't control their dog. Don't want theirs or mine injured. He put a hole in my trainer's dog who is a mirror image personality wise then they were best friends.

I picked up Jake and Brig as puppies when 2 Eurasiers threatened them. The owner jeered at me for doing so rather than controlling her dogs. Really charming. I should apparently have let them be attacked so they could sort it out amongst themselves. Bonkers, pups were just out of isolation so tiny.

Werewolf: 1543778937425.jpeg1543778937425.jpeg
 
JFTD said:
I think that's a matter of opinion, and very much dependent on the circumstances... I think it's more defensible than allowing a dog to be loose without effective recall though...
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As horrible as it is I think in the real world most of us would do what it takes to protect our dogs.
I know I would. As much as im a animal lover I wouldn't stand by and see my dog attacked.
 
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