Its Grand National Week!

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
14,251
Location
Essex
Yes. I realise that they are checked by a vet prior to racing. However in the clip I was shown he did look slightly lame.
The camera angle is not really the issue. The horse fell and the fact is horses do fall and often its fatal. No camera angle will change that.
Lame or not - and remember many a top racehorse has stringhalt for example, see if you can find a video of Big Bucks walking round the paddock, you wouldn't take him on as a freebie! - his death was caused by crashing into another horse at a flat gallop and whether he was lame or not is quite irrelevant. I also find it deeply unlikely that he was lame, Willie Mullins does know a bit about horses, let alone all the vets that passed him.
 

amymay

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
51,238
Location
South
Well, weather you’re for it or against it - I am in awe of all those horses. They are such incredible athletes, eating up the ground and taking on those fences with absolute bravery.

The jumping yesterday was truly epic, and I salute every single one of them.

I find it very emotional watching it because of the courage of each and every horse.

Long live The National!
 

splashgirl45

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
6,815
Location
suffolk
i am a jump racing fan but still cant bring myself to watch the national live as i had picked Dark Ivy many years ago , he was a lovely looking horse and i still cant get the image of his fatal fall out of my head and i can only watch once i know the outcome of the fallers. it was a good race this year (apart from the first fence) and tiger roll deserved to win, i still think less runners would help so they all have a little more room at the fences and still think the more experienced horses should be given priority when choosing the runners...
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
14,251
Location
Essex
Well, weather you’re for it or against it - I am in awe of all those horses. They are such incredible athletes, eating up the ground and taking on those fences with absolute bravery.

The jumping yesterday was truly epic, and I salute every single one of them.

I find it very emotional watching it because of the courage of each and every horse.

Long live The National!
I cry at all the retro bits, like Red Rum and so on. :)
 

TheresaW

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 January 2006
Messages
7,297
Location
Nottinghamshire
Like someone else posted above, I don’t really follow racing, as I just don’t have any interest in it. I used to work for a betting shop though and have worked at Cheltenham on gold cup day (one of the busiest days of my life), and also Kempton one Boxing Day. On the odd chances I had to sneak out for a break, the horses are amazing. I do watch the national, don’t have a bet, but take part in the sweepstake at work. I had Tea for Two this year.

My FB has been littered with anti-national posts yesterday and today. Much like everyone on here, I hate the fatalities, it makes me quite 😡 that the people posting left right and centre right now, had nothing to say during Cheltenham week.

We’ve had a fair few foals of a certain type dumped around here in the last couple of months, one of which was very close to where I keep my horses. She later was euthanised at the vets. Those are the horses people really should be getting up in arms and shouting about.

On a side note, I watch the national and think, how amazing would it be to ride in that race? Doll in her younger days would have probably loved to go round it. Would have probably taken about an hour and a half, and I don’t jump, but imagine the high at the end.
 

EKW

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 February 2011
Messages
9,662
I hate that one - not the horse! - it was true cruelty that year, no way should it have been run.
That wasn't the best example of racing that year. It was foot and mouth, cheltenham had been abandoned and racing needed something to keep going with. But it didnt need to in that deep muck. It was daft.
 

Crazy_cat_lady

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 January 2012
Messages
3,442
Interestingly watching the re run on pretty sure Tiger Roll had his nosebleed over the water the first time, how come they said Politologue bleeding from the nose potentially affected his performance Friday but Tiger was potentially bleeding for at least a circuit of the grand national and was still able to win?

Being fairly soft I'd retire him on this high but for all Micheal O Leary says about worrying about him theres no way he wont resist going for the hat trick. He would make someone a great ROR

Interesting observation from OH- How come they have all these fans and cooling tents at the Grand National meeting but not these meetings in the baking hot summer/ Gold Cup? Do any other race meetings have them? The cynic says because the Grand National is so in the spotlight but is it just because it's such a long race? I'd also have liked to see TR taken there first then allowed to do his lap of honour once he'd been cooled down, people could still have appreciated him then and would have understood why he'd been allowed to be cooled off first. I've seen the cooling tents used for eventing too.

The jumps do seem a little too easy now compared to how they used to be they were just scraping over them.
 

EKW

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 February 2011
Messages
9,662
Quite a few tracks bring in the cooling fans in summer. Perth and Cartmel certainly do. They make a big thing of it Aintree because they can.

Nosebleeds affect horses in different ways. Yes it can affect some and not others. It depends where the bleed has come from, of its lungs or somewhere else along the way.

I do believe O'Leary when he says no more Nationals for Tiger Roll. If he wins at Cheltenham next year I really wouldn't be surprised to see him retired there and then to go and live on their stud farm. Yes the man is a complete tosspot at times but I do think this horse has really grown on him.
 

blodwyn1

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 February 2015
Messages
272
How do you think he would do in a gold cup? I think he could have won it this year! That would be a great way to retire!
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
14,251
Location
Essex
How do you think he would do in a gold cup? I think he could have won it this year! That would be a great way to retire!
I would love to see him in the GC, but I would also love him to retire sound and unbeasten, and the risk of being beaten in a GC is just too high. He's a little cracker!
 

Crazy_cat_lady

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 January 2012
Messages
3,442
Is it just me or does anyone else find the ITV Social Stable really irritating?

If I recall didn't I think it was BBC used to send one of their ex jockeys to ride a couple of the well fancied horses at work? I'd love if they could do this I'd find it interesting especially as they have AP on the team, liked the feature they did last year I think it was where he rode round some of the fences and explained what he was doing.

Would love if in some races it was like the F1 where you can ride onboard with your chosen driver imagine if you could do that with the Jockeys, even if they couldn't do it live would be great if they all wore on one then they uploaded the footage after and you could choose who to watch.
 

EKW

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 February 2011
Messages
9,662
Is it just me or does anyone else find the ITV Social Stable really irritating?

If I recall didn't I think it was BBC used to send one of their ex jockeys to ride a couple of the well fancied horses at work? I'd love if they could do this I'd find it interesting especially as they have AP on the team, liked the feature they did last year I think it was where he rode round some of the fences and explained what he was doing.

Would love if in some races it was like the F1 where you can ride onboard with your chosen driver imagine if you could do that with the Jockeys, even if they couldn't do it live would be great if they all wore on one then they uploaded the footage after and you could choose who to watch.
Some jockeys wear hat cams but I dont think any jockey wears one in the National now as it became a bit of a bad luck charm. I dont think anyone made it beyond a circuit wearing one. Sam Thomas had it on one year in beautiful sunshine. You got this lovely starfished human shadow flying over the fence and to the floor minus the horse who had declined to actually jump the fence!
 

Crazy_cat_lady

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 January 2012
Messages
3,442
Some jockeys wear hat cams but I dont think any jockey wears one in the National now as it became a bit of a bad luck charm. I dont think anyone made it beyond a circuit wearing one. Sam Thomas had it on one year in beautiful sunshine. You got this lovely starfished human shadow flying over the fence and to the floor minus the horse who had declined to actually jump the fence!

I think I remember that it was funny but not funny at the same time as you could almost feel the impact! Albeit without the headcam years ago when Mark Todd won Badminton on Horton Point they had him on afterwards talking through his round, I was only young but found it interesting, maybe if they all had hat cams on the luck element is ruled out we could then have had Davy Russell talking through his footage afterwards of his hat cam and his thoughts/ positioning etc. I'd far prefer that even if uploaded a couple of days later and would find it really interesting, I think an eventer uploaded one of their round at Burghley last year on Facebook which I really enjoyed as it was the closest I'll get to riding at burghley and you also got the scale of the course.
 

Mariposa

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 May 2011
Messages
1,422
I really liked the coverage - I think they're a great team and they need to make it user-friendly for Grand National day as loads on non-racing-fans will be tuned in. Thought Bryony spoke as poetically and well as we expect now, Chris Hughes will have appealed to young fans ( and we need those younger fans to get into racing!) - he's actually knowledgeable if you listen to him, his dad works at Jackdaws I believe, and he rides out for Jonjo regularly - it's good that we have these 'celebs' ( if you can call him that?!) who are so passionate about the sport. He was on twitter earlier really defending racing, good on him!

I also really like Ed Chamberlain and the rest of the team - it is a hard job trying to engage with everyone from the hardened racing fan to someone who only watches racing once a year, but I do think they get the balance right.

As for the race itself, wasn't Tiger Roll amazing? What a little star, and Davy rode his socks off. The fatality was awful, the poor Wylies to lose a third horse, it did that the shine off a great race. Was he lame? I didn't think so ( but was it just me or was One For Rosie lame behind before the stayer's hurdle? She looked really uneven to me but still ran a blinder!)
 

bonny

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2007
Messages
3,079
I can’t see tiger roll going for a third national, it must be a tough decision what to do if you are lucky enough to own a horse like him. I doubt we will see him in another handicap,he’s just too highly rated now to risk him. He’s only 15 2 and top weight would be a big ask....
 

islander

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2011
Messages
135
Location
miles from anywhere
I also certainly found the Social Stable very annoying, though I hadn`t a clue who Chris Hughes was until I Googled him, and grudgingly agree he seemed knowledgeable and enthusiastic.

Although Tiger Roll is a great little horse and had a brilliant win, the excessive coverage of him beforehand when I would have liked to see\hear more about other runners, I also found irritating. Mind you, today I felt the same about the coverage of the Boat Race, concentrating so much on James Cracknell, although again I agree his was a stupendous achievement.

I expect I`m just a Grumpy Old Woman.
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
14,251
Location
Essex
I didn't think ITV actually showed a horse, they are far more obsessed with people. Bryony was amazing though - did you see her on the opening show? She is a broadcasters dream. When she described being at the start and feeling your horses heartbeat, she really nailed it.
 

Tihama

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 June 2013
Messages
470
i am a jump racing fan but still cant bring myself to watch the national live as i had picked Dark Ivy many years ago , he was a lovely looking horse and i still cant get the image of his fatal fall out of my head and i can only watch once i know the outcome of the fallers. it was a good race this year (apart from the first fence) and tiger roll deserved to win, i still think less runners would help so they all have a little more room at the fences and still think the more experienced horses should be given priority when choosing the runners...
Dark Ivy is the reason I can't watch the National either 😥

I'm not anti though in fact I've just been arguing with people on FB who want to ban racing
 

bonny

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2007
Messages
3,079
Has anyone seen the pictures of tiger roll parading through the town today ? What an amazing horse, he looks like he knows he is a superstar x
 
Joined
23 August 2018
Messages
28
Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they? Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up. I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten. I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk.

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area. I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet. Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this. Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%. Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!
 

EKW

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 February 2011
Messages
9,662
Trotting up in the morning of a race for the vets is nothing new. Especially for big races, horses that have had time off injured or have spent the night in the racecourse stables. Any horse can get on the truck sound and bang itself in a strange stable over night. It also shows that the BHA are seen to be doing something about Welfare standards.

I have never been eventing, I have no idea! Though I do know at higher levels you trot up before you even start the first day. I don't know if this is done at lower levels or not.

Sometimes a fresh set of eyes sees something you don't because you see the horse day in day out. Trotting up is never a bad thing and only takes 30 seconds of your day. The vets can spin anything and ask for a second trot up after the horse has been walked for 10/15 minutes to see if its just stiffness from standing in.

In some of my random blog type posts I have always said that you wont always like how or why we do things the way we do. But then in return I might not agree with the way you keep your animals. Same as Jane Doe next door might not agree with anyone and spends her life waving around carrot sticks!

One thing I do say, especially to people taking on ex-racers straight from training is to come into the yard to see how we ride the horses. Once you understand how we do it you can then go away and figure out how you are going to change that and it will be easier.
 
Joined
23 August 2018
Messages
28
Thanks for responding, EKW. It does sound similar to eventing and, as I said, fully support. You're absolutely right that another set of eyes is never a bad thing. Coverage from Cheltenham etc made it sound as though this was a new step and I guess had I thought it through, would have been surprised if it wasn't in use already.

You are spot on with liking / disliking other people's methods whether on professional yards or at livery or home. I encourage others on the yard I'm at to question how and why I do things as, especially given being an owner for many years, bad habits can creep in or just plain ignorance despite length of time as an owner, no-one knows everything!! I love finding new or better ways and if my horse benefits that's no bad thing.

No plans to rehome an ex-racer - I think my body is getting too old to do justice to re-educating one of these wonderful athletes, unless it really is a dope on a rope, think it would be looking for someone up for a bit more fun than me these days :D
 

splashgirl45

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
6,815
Location
suffolk
I never once labelled her difficult or nasty - could you show me where I did?

I love her to bits so don't see why I should sell.
Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they? Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up. I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten. I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk.

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area. I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet. Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this. Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%. Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!
thats odd, 3 of us badly affected by Dark Ivy, thought it was only me, this is why i only watch the re run
 

splashgirl45

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
6,815
Location
suffolk
Lots of comments on here to agree with - Tiger Roll is a superstar, no-one could say anything else, could they? Whilst I love NH racing (from my armchair) to see the horses who clearly enjoy their job it's never nice to see those when they're pushed too far if they're back in the field with few fences left and don't respond, I'd far rather see them pulled up. I have seen a huge improvement this year in jockeys not pushing when clearly beaten. I too hate seeing injuries / fatalities - who does? - but it is all part of the risk.

Welfare is a high priority for me and I like the efforts being made in this area. I didn't see the race where the 3rd finisher was penalised, though it, to me, did sound unfair .... if a horse is so tired it's wobbly at the end, that's different to being tired through effort.

On that note, the one I think might not make a difference is the trotting up before the race for a vet. Would be interested in views from EKW and others directly connected on this. Not that I don't approve - of course I do - but am thinking that no trainer would run a horse they didn't feel is 100%. Maybe I'm being naiive but we're all repeatedly assured that racehorses live like kings (not saying I would like all methods used on every yard!!) and get the very best treatment.

Just to finish - I still watch the National, but Dark Ivy is the one who stopped me ever betting again and I never pick less than 6 to finish or willingly voice my choices either!!

thats odd , 3 of us affected by Dark Ivy. thats why i will only watch the re run

sorry, tried to delete the other quote but seem to have double posted instead!!!!!
 
Top