Its Grand National Week!

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i think seeing a bad end to a decent horse is the thing that turns the tables for a lot of people, they make a choice about what they think is acceptable to them, or not as in this case
yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am :p

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
 

tristar

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yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am :p

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
same here, can`t sell any i`ve bred for eventing for similar reasons
 

bonny

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I went on the ban the grand national Facebook page last night for a nosey and it’s quite an eye opener ....it’s not going to happen any time soon but maybe it’s days are numbered and a lot of people would celebrate its demise. I think that would lead to a call to stop all racing, or change things significantly, dangerous sports just don’t seem to be at all acceptable nowadays....maybe I should use the word risky not dangerous
 
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yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am :p

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
Another non fan here. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me at all. Would never argue with anyone about it though - each to their own. I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when the "it's folk that know nothing about it....." comments come out because, well, I do. Don't get me wrong I am no expert in the racing industry but I am not a clueless fluffy bunny either with a delusional idea of a disney planet. I know enough about all the ex racehorses I have worked with over the years....

On a bit of a tangent but a work colleague was arranging the sweepstake and it made me think how nice it would be if every bet that was placed was matched and donated to racehorse rehabilitation charities (or any horse charity really) So I made it my personal mission to match his sweepstake takings to donate to the racehorse rehab charity! Spent that night doing a tonne of baking and had a mini bake sale at work! We only fell short of matching the sweepstake by £5 - but then one of the colleagues who won a fiver donated it to the chairty so it worked out well! My friend/colleague who done the sweepstake pointed everyone in the direction of the cakes once they had picked their horse so most people who bet also donated. Worked quite well I thought.
 

EKW

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yep, dont watch racing, dont really agree with it (flat or NH-worked in flat for 3 years) so don't often post on this sort of thread - I know many decent people who do love it and am not about to argue with them about it. I am perfectly within my rights to post though, so here I am :p

(whispers-dont care for eventing either)
I do sometimes have to laugh when people are all for eventing and will shout down any nay-sayers yet want to ban racing. (Not you personally MOC you just happened to bring up eventing!)

There isn't a huge amount of difference between eventing and racing - slower and individual - but the work is just as hard, if not harder and horses are only asked to race once, not perform to their best 3 days in a row for hours at a time (warm up etc.) Racing is a 30-40 minute lead up with a 20-30 minute lead cool down all in walk.
 
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I went on the ban the grand national Facebook page last night for a nosey and it’s quite an eye opener ....it’s not going to happen any time soon but maybe it’s days are numbered and a lot of people would celebrate its demise. I think that would lead to a call to stop all racing, or change things significantly, dangerous sports just don’t seem to be at all acceptable nowadays....maybe I should use the word risky not dangerous
I think people can choose to do all the dangerous sports they want but ethically I have a problem with using animals for risky entertainment as tristar says, there are certain red lines that we set for ourselves. There's no doubt in my mind that those involved with racing care and love their charges-maybe even some eventers do too ;) and that these horses get the absolute best of care while in training.

I used to love flat racing until I saw an amatuer race that really made me reconsider the whole sport-the actual event disgusted me tbh.
 

mule

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bonny

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What has also changed since then is how racing is reported, I think it remains in peoples minds in part because the photo was in all the newspapers the following day as well as being shown in the replays/ new reports, while is was probably done to sell papers, shock people, the owners, trainers, grooms and respect for the horse were given no consideration at all.
We are given better information now without the need to replay any tragic incidents and there is far more consideration given to the feelings of everyone involved.
The image is still seen in books and there are several detailed images on Google including one of him dead after the runners had been by. They would find it difficult to obtain these images now. I am not 100% of what is correct though.....hiding everything behind screens and cutting footage on TV is hiding reality and sanitising the sport, and also death itself. I like many people have never seen a dead person (I am 60) and this is extremely common now, at one time horses were common place and lots of people came across injured or sick horses. When I first watched racing in the 1960s-70s you often saw a dead or injured horse next to a fence, obviously vet medicine has improved and horses are given every chance to recover. Personally I thought the over head shots of horses injured behind screens at Aintree in the early 2000s commentated by Claire Balding, was the beginning of the new hatred of racing amongst this generation.
 

tristar

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Here's a good article about research in to the causes and prevention of catastrophic breakdowns. There's lots of new research being done. The big thing is bone fatigue and tailoring rest periods to allow for bone regeneration.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/bone-injury-the-science-of-rest-and-repair/?fbclid=IwAR2xwyM6a9XqvxD8S8jzWqFmyaoa-kmvxVu-tL7eoQi5-rXnbEO25J2QmWQ#.XK2_0BbxP-Q.facebook
i``m glad he said good horse people know these things, and not that its all something new.

but nowhere does he mention the implications of racing at a young age, well i did`nt see that anyway, or the part in injuries that in-co-ordination plays or the overstretching of ligaments and tendons going beyond their physical limits, in the breakdown of bone, multiple things happening at the same time leading to catastrophic injury particularly in immature horses

and its sort of obvious that workload strengthens up to a point, then starts to deplete bone strength by using up the bodies mineral and nutritional deposits when horses are pushed to the limits.

they are not just allowing bone regeneration, by rest periods, some horses, the young ones are putting done bone for the first time because they are so young,
 

joosie

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I am not 100% of what is correct though.....hiding everything behind screens and cutting footage on TV is hiding reality and sanitising the sport, and also death itself.
This is what I thought in this year's race when the runners came around on the second lap and they had to bypass the first fence because Up For Review was still there. Not only did the commentators not even briefly address WHY the fence was being bypassed, but you can see the cameras deliberately keeping the fence and screens completely out of view until the field had moved on. And when they did the race review in the studio, they mentioned that a horse had died and then started showing the footage from fence two. I can't decide if this stuff is done because they genuinely want to avoid upsetting people, or do they sanitise it because they don't want to ruin the spectacle and excitement of the race?
 

splashgirl45

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i would think it is out of consideration for the owners,groom and trainer. i hate the fact that so many horses die in racing, but love horses and enjoy watching racing so am a bit torn, but there are hundreds of horses who die in awful conditions all over the country who are nothing to do with racing who suffer for months, sometimes years and at least the racehorses are dealt with immediately
 

Snowfilly

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I have a friend who trains pointers and says one of the big benefits of the screens is that the injured horse is less likely to try and move as it's contained. He also feels it offers privacy to trainers, grooms and anyone else who might be there with the horse regardless of outcome, pointing out that most people want privacy for PTS whatever the circumstances. I think they're good enough reasons to continue with the screens.

I've also known and seen horses down behind screens for an awful long while and then get up. Sometimes there's a tendon injury or the horse is winded; I saw a horse stay down for over 20 minutes at a local point to point and most people moved away from the screens because we guessed what was going to happen - only to see him walking out a while later! So sometimes the commentators might not know for sure, or treatment is ongoing, so they don't mention it.
 

joosie

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Because you can't see the horse when the screens are up... so there's no need to deliberately hide the screens from the camera. Read my post again, I am asking WHY it is important to hide the fact that something's going on. Are the broadcasters protecting us or the race? I am not actually asking people to answer this by the way - I'm saying this is what I personally am trying to decide.
 

bonny

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I have never heard anybody say that it’s important to hide the screens from the tv audience and my point was only that if you can use a different camera angle that doesn’t show the incident then why not ? The only thing that they try hard not to show again are reruns of the race that show the actual fall or whatever bad thing has happened
 

joosie

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They didn't use a different camera angle - they were using the normal angle and following the field but then just as the scene of the incident was about to come into view they shifted the camera quite noticeably to keep it out of shot. It was nowhere near close-up enough for you to see any detail even if it had been on camera - so deliberately keeping the scene out of frame was clearly a choice, as shifting the camera at that point was unnecessary from a technical point of view.
But anyway... I feel like this is getting a little nit-picky! As I've said already it is just MY thought processes and I am not expecting you to give me an answer or attempt to make me agree with you ;)

The other day I watched the video of the mass pileup at the 1967 National (go Foinavon!). Given the current anti-National climate can you imagine the reaction if THAT happened now?!
 

bonny

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They didn't use a different camera angle - they were using the normal angle and following the field but then just as the scene of the incident was about to come into view they shifted the camera quite noticeably to keep it out of shot. It was nowhere near close-up enough for you to see any detail even if it had been on camera - so deliberately keeping the scene out of frame was clearly a choice, as shifting the camera at that point was unnecessary from a technical point of view.
But anyway... I feel like this is getting a little nit-picky! As I've said already it is just MY thought processes and I am not expecting you to give me an answer or attempt to make me agree with you ;)

The other day I watched the video of the mass pileup at the 1967 National (go Foinavon!). Given the current anti-National climate can you imagine the reaction if THAT happened now?!
No one was hurt in that pile up, most of the horses look like they are going so slowly that they just grind to a halt ! Still an amazing race though and it wouldn’t happen now.
 

oakey14

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I struggle with the national tbh, love it and hate it but you get a horse like Rummy who jumps round ten times which can't just be luck he loved it and bear in mind there were 33 tougher fences then... He also won the Scottish national a week later in 1974 that would never be allowed to happen now . Horses die racing all the time but the people who watch the national once a year don't see that and have no idea , if they watched the Pardubice and knew that the national used to have stone walls they'd faint lol bless them
 

mule

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The beast loves to gallop. He's only half TB but he has a real turn of speed. I do lots of flatwork but he comes alive when he does x country or when I take him galloping.

I had a dressage instructor who used to say he had no work ethic 😂 but it was really because he wants to run and jump. I think it's his TB side, it's just in their nature.
 

GTRJazz

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Nothing wrong with the National its the breeding thats wrong not enough bone, they should put some ID blood in them will slow it down a bit and take more of a knock
 

Sandstone1

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Another non fan here. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me at all. Would never argue with anyone about it though - each to their own. I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when the "it's folk that know nothing about it....." comments come out because, well, I do. Don't get me wrong I am no expert in the racing industry but I am not a clueless fluffy bunny either with a delusional idea of a disney planet. I know enough about all the ex racehorses I have worked with over the years....

On a bit of a tangent but a work colleague was arranging the sweepstake and it made me think how nice it would be if every bet that was placed was matched and donated to racehorse rehabilitation charities (or any horse charity really) So I made it my personal mission to match his sweepstake takings to donate to the racehorse rehab charity! Spent that night doing a tonne of baking and had a mini bake sale at work! We only fell short of matching the sweepstake by £5 - but then one of the colleagues who won a fiver donated it to the chairty so it worked out well! My friend/colleague who done the sweepstake pointed everyone in the direction of the cakes once they had picked their horse so most people who bet also donated. Worked quite well I thought.
Yes. The old saying about it being people who dont understand it being against it. Same as hunting. You get it s " townies dont uunderstand. Well some people do understand and are still against it!
Do we have the right to use horses in sports where there is a big risk to life? Im really not sure to be honest.
 

Clodagh

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Charlie Brooks wrote a fantastic article in the Telepgraph about totally changing the National, and making it like the London Marathon. I will see if I can find it. (May be buried in my old papers to go to the vets box).
 
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