Iv just shod my horse after 2 yrs bare foot and he's a different horse

My cob mare needs fronts on, she does mostly hacking and is so foot sore barefoot its pointless. She is fine with her back feet though. My Tb x WB is shod alround. Daying that he has always been shod, if he loses a backshoes he fine doing small amounts or roadwork etc, but he again he is very footsore doing a lot of hacking.
At the end of the day there is a reason why people have shod horses for thousands of years. If he wasn't needed then people wouldn't bother. Saying that a lot of horses are shod might not need shoes. You have done the right thing by trying, and then at least you know. :)
 
Mine are currently all barefoot but as madame is going to start proper work this summer if she needs them she will get front shoes.

Little NF gelding rising 4 never been shod walked him down a horrific stoney track Tuesday not a hop or hobble so sure footed I was astounded so I guess he is not going to be a candidate for shoes.

My mare never been shod as far as I know as never been in work seems to feel stones, grit and quite often will get bruised soles if she is led out on stoney ground and feels it for a while after. she may well need fronts but I'd rather not for a pure financial reason but obviously will do what is best for her when necessarry. Apparently feet adjust to the job they are asked to do according to my farrier so I will give her a month or two to adjust.

Good luck with your new forwards going man - have fun :)
 
I was about to post this exact same thing!! Except my boy has been unshod for SIX years!! And today I had front two put on and hes a totally different horse, happy, forward going and not tripping or falling on his feet!
 
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well done - i did similar for similar reasons and my mare was far happier and no longer backing off xc fences - esp ones with hardcore on take off/landing (steps etc)
 
There seems to be massive confusion throughout this thread about what does and does not work for horses being barefoot or shod.

Firstly, people talk about bringing their horse into work, well, what work? Everyone seems to have different ideas about what the 'work' is and what level of 'work' they are attempting to, or intending doing.

People are mentioning that they keep their horses barefoot for years, then say that they are having to shoe them and see a massive improvement.

If you are going to go barefoot, or use your horse in some discipline barefoot, you have to accept that it is not the easy option either for you or your horse. The biggest complaint about barefoot horses is that they are 'footy', or go footy and are uncomfortable, unwilling and not forward going.

I believe that if you cannot commit to barefoot, with diet, and by this I mean the available grazing not just removing sugar laden hard feed, appropreate exercise and appropreate trimming if required, then shoe your horse and save yourself a lot of hassel.

To be successful at keeping horses barefoot means that you have to seriously up your game and improve your horse management skills. You need to know about grazing and grasses, how they affect your horse and why. You need to know about hard feed and the alternatives.

With regard to exercise, you really need to do it to the appropreate level for your horse and up it as required.

If you get everything right, the hoof becomes self maintaining and requires little or no trimming.

You need to be aware, that the best barefoot horse can have it's feet fall apart when something in your management becomes unbalanced.

At the end of the day shoeing is for the most part a cover up. The horse cannot feel it's feet so appears sound, thats the truth of it.

The way the majority of people keep their horses in todays world, where most work full time or for whatever reason cannot put in the hours of exercise which is what going barefoot really means, or keeping their horse at livery where he cannot be managed in an appropreate way going barefoot will fail.

The first record of horses being shod is in the Koran around 640AD, so we've been shoeing horses for about 1300yrs, no time at all really, in fact Xenophon, doesn't mention shoes at all and the Romans attempted to protect their horses' feet with a strap-on, solid-bottomed "hipposandal".

In todays world to go successfully barefoot, you need commitment, knowledge then more commitment.
 
AndySpooner said:
There seems to be massive confusion throughout this thread about what does and does not work for horses being barefoot or shod.

Firstly, people talk about bringing their horse into work, well, what work? Everyone seems to have different ideas about what the 'work' is and what level of 'work' they are attempting to, or intending doing.

People are mentioning that they keep their horses barefoot for years, then say that they are having to shoe them and see a massive improvement.

If you are going to go barefoot, or use your horse in some discipline barefoot, you have to accept that it is not the easy option either for you or your horse. The biggest complaint about barefoot horses is that they are 'footy', or go footy and are uncomfortable, unwilling and not forward going.

I believe that if you cannot commit to barefoot, with diet, and by this I mean the available grazing not just removing sugar laden hard feed, appropreate exercise and appropreate trimming if required, then shoe your horse and save yourself a lot of hassel.

To be successful at keeping horses barefoot means that you have to seriously up your game and improve your horse management skills. You need to know about grazing and grasses, how they affect your horse and why. You need to know about hard feed and the alternatives.

With regard to exercise, you really need to do it to the appropreate level for your horse and up it as required.

If you get everything right, the hoof becomes self maintaining and requires little or no trimming.

You need to be aware, that the best barefoot horse can have it's feet fall apart when something in your management becomes unbalanced.

At the end of the day shoeing is for the most part a cover up. The horse cannot feel it's feet so appears sound, thats the truth of it.

The way the majority of people keep their horses in todays world, where most work full time or for whatever reason cannot put in the hours of exercise which is what going barefoot really means, or keeping their horse at livery where he cannot be managed in an appropreate way going barefoot will fail.

The first record of horses being shod is in the Koran around 640AD, so we've been shoeing horses for about 1300yrs, no time at all really, in fact Xenophon, doesn't mention shoes at all and the Romans attempted to protect their horses' feet with a strap-on, solid-bottomed "hipposandal".

In todays world to go successfully barefoot, you need commitment, knowledge then more commitment.
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Whilst I agree entirely with your ideas, it isn't always easy, and not always worth it. The changes required can be too difficult and impractical to manage, both for the owner and the horses's mental well-being (esp those who are very grass sensitive). Therefore putting shoes on a horse in those situation is the practical thing to do and should bring no shame.

The OP's horse is obviously one of those sensitive horses. It doesn't means he couldn't manage barefoot, just that SHE can't provide him with the diet and management he needs to acheive it, for whatever reasons. Sounds like she has made all the adaptions she is willing to make and they aren't enough. I, and others, may well be able to get her happy barefoot (I would be much stricter on the grazing!) but unless she's willing to sell him to us ;) having shoes on is the best thing for him.

I too would shoe a horse who was too difficult to keep barefoot. If I had something very grass sensitive (i.e couldn't have any at all) then I couldn't maintain that and keep them happy at the same time, so shoes would be the answer. No shame in it, just practical.

The ones who DO annoy me are those who make very little effort then categorically state 'their horse cannot manage without shoes'. Well, yes, when it's on rich grass and being fed hard feeds (and probabaly had it's feet damaged or underdeveloped by years of shoeing) of course it's not going to manage!
 
I think OP has done the right thing. TBH I get a bit fed up with the barefoot brigade ranting on about how if you can't be bothered then go ahead and shoe. Unless you have an extremely flexible YM and a plentiful supply of the 'right' type of grazing then barefoot is very hard. I have tried and failed, I was told by those on here that have never seen my horse or know what I do with him, that I needed to restrict his grass totally and stable him. Well he cannot cope with being stabled in the summer at all, he sweats, paces, box walks - he even has worn out his rubber matting. So if I did stable him then I would end up with a cripple that has ulcers as he would wear his feet down badly and be stressed all the time, as for turning out in a bare paddock, we have nothing suitable and electric fencing is not an option (long story). So yes sometimes shoeing is best. And it is not because we can't be bothered or care about our horses.
 
Laafet said:
I think OP has done the right thing. TBH I get a bit fed up with the barefoot brigade ranting on about how if you can't be bothered then go ahead and shoe. Unless you have an extremely flexible YM and a plentiful supply of the 'right' type of grazing then barefoot is very hard. I have tried and failed, I was told by those on here that have never seen my horse or know what I do with him, that I needed to restrict his grass totally and stable him. Well he cannot cope with being stabled in the summer at all, he sweats, paces, box walks - he even has worn out his rubber matting. So if I did stable him then I would end up with a cripple that has ulcers as he would wear his feet down badly and be stressed all the time, as for turning out in a bare paddock, we have nothing suitable and electric fencing is not an option (long story). So yes sometimes shoeing is best. And it is not because we can't be bothered or care about our horses.
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Nothing to do with 'can't be bothered' for most. Yes, there are those who aren't willing to make nessesary simple changes (you surely must know someone who's got a fat cob who 'needs' shoes?!) but there are plenty like you who aren't lucky enough to have the facilities and for you shoeing IS the best options.

HOWEVER, it doesn't mean that 'not all horses can cope barefoot' as the pro-shoeing group insist, it means that 'not all horses can manage barefoot on their current management'. There are very few horses who wouldn't manage barefoot without with some (serious and often far too OTT and totally impractical :eek: ) effort.

I think if everyone could just agree on that point then we'd all be happy :D

Then we can start to argue about what 'acceptable' changes to diet and management are instead ;)
 
Laafet said:
I think OP has done the right thing. TBH I get a bit fed up with the barefoot brigade ranting on about how if you can't be bothered then go ahead and shoe. Unless you have an extremely flexible YM and a plentiful supply of the 'right' type of grazing then barefoot is very hard. I have tried and failed, I was told by those on here that have never seen my horse or know what I do with him, that I needed to restrict his grass totally and stable him. Well he cannot cope with being stabled in the summer at all, he sweats, paces, box walks - he even has worn out his rubber matting. So if I did stable him then I would end up with a cripple that has ulcers as he would wear his feet down badly and be stressed all the time, as for turning out in a bare paddock, we have nothing suitable and electric fencing is not an option (long story). So yes sometimes shoeing is best. And it is not because we can't be bothered or care about our horses.
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Certainly not trying to imply that anyone who cannot go barefoot doesn't care about their horse. What I am saying is that it's a massive commitment in most cases to do it right and be successful. Everything in the way that horses are conventionally managed is stacked against barefoot, particularly if you are having to rely on a livery yard.

I am of the opinion now, that few horse cannot go barefoot, it's the owner's who can't, the reasons are many but in some it's like Kallibear says, not putting the effort in and blameing the horse is annoying.
 
AndySpooner said:
Certainly not trying to imply that anyone who cannot go barefoot doesn't care about their horse. What I am saying is that it's a massive commitment in most cases to do it right and be successful. Everything in the way that horses are conventionally managed is stacked against barefoot, particularly if you are having to rely on a livery yard.

I am of the opinion now, that few horse cannot go barefoot, it's the owner's who can't, the reasons are many but in some it's like Kallibear says, not putting the effort in and blameing the horse is annoying.
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Whilst I'm totally on your team, you still manage to make it sound like most aren't 'putting the effort' in and could make it work if they bothered (bad wording maybe). Yes, there ARE people like that who could make some fairly simple changes and have their horses working hard barefoot, BUT there are also those, like the OP and laafet, who tried pretty hard, to the best of their abilities (and limitied by their yards etc) and their horse was one of the more tricky ones.

Again, what annoys me far more is those kind of people then turning round and insisting 'not all horses can manage barefoot', when they COULD, if their diet and management was perfect for that horse.
 
Well my horse has been bare on the fronts for 4 1/2 months, (he'sbeen bare on the backs for a year with no problems) but i have just rang my farrier to put his front shoes back on this week!

I went through the transition fully aware, read everything i could about going without shoes, changed to a qualified trimmer who did say he had very challenging front feet as he had a stretched forward sole, narrow heels, little digital cushion etc.

I did everything by the book, changed to fibre only diet, supplements for hoof growth, spent hours leading him out on tarmac, picked feet out religiously twice a day, painted on hoof hardner, bought a riders rasp to keep the edges rolled , treated for thrush(but trimmer said he didn't have it anyway)didn't ride him for 2 months and spent hours worrying about his feet! We tried hoof boots at first but because of the shape of his narrow long hoofs we couldn't get any to fit him! After 3 months he seemed a lot better and although he still was ouchy on any uneven or stony ground i thought we were getting there!

Yesterday i took him out on a short hack with 2 other horses off the yard and from the moment we set off i could tell he was struggling to keep up even on the smooth tarmac, he was getting quite distressed as the others kept getting further in front of us and kept having to stop to let him catch up, we got on the bridle path which is soft from all the rain but with the odd stone and a bit uneven and he was even worse, stumbling and his leg nearly gave way when he hit some uneven ground, i tried to keep him on grassy bits as much as possible but the final straw was when he stumbled that badly he nearly fell on his knees and he let out a groan so i got off him at that point and led him back! we had only been out 20 minutes.

some might say nearly 5 months isn't long enough but my horse is only young and had major issues going forward and after a year of taking him back to basics he was finally going well so i dont want to set him back again with him not having confidence in his feet to move! I am really disapointed but at the end of the day i cant bear to see him so uncomfortable, i am going to have the shoes back on now and then maybe in the autumn i will try again taking the shoes off for the winter.

The other cob i ride has always been barefoot and he has rock crunching hoofs so i do believe what some people have said, it works for some and not for others.
 
The words 'not putting the effort in' are in themselves really quite deflamatory. For what it is worth you have no idea what I do or my level of horsecare skills so making assumptions is not going to endear me or anyone else. Most people keep their horses in livery yards and so unless there are ideal conditions then some people will struggle to go barefoot. I do use the services of a well reknowned nutrionist but still have no managed to go barefoot, even when my horse was able to stay at work on an all weather pen for 6 months (although that was on vet recommendation to shoe him in front). At work the majority of my charges are barefoot but some are not.
 
Kallibear said:
Whilst I'm totally on your team, you still manage to make it sound like most aren't 'putting the effort' in and could make it work if they bothered (bad wording maybe). Yes, there ARE people like that who could make some fairly simple changes and have their horses working hard barefoot, BUT there are also those, like the OP and laafet, who tried pretty hard, to the best of their abilities (and limitied by their yards etc) and their horse was one of the more tricky ones.

Again, what annoys me far more is those kind of people then turning round and insisting 'not all horses can manage barefoot', when they COULD, if their diet and management was perfect for that horse.
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Kallibear - I totally agree with you on this.
 
Laafet said:
LOL
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:D

Whilst a bit of joke, in all seriousness, that SHOULD be the argument.

Not 'well, MY horse can't manage barefoot and not all horse can cope barefoot' but 'I can't make the changes needed to keep my horse working barefoot/I don't think the changes I need to make to keep my horse working barefoot are acceptable'.

Whilst there is a lack of knowledge for many about what the changed would need to be (massive lack of knowledge!!!! the main cause of barefoot not 'working' for them), one of the major difference between the 'pro-shoe-ers' and the 'barefoot brigadge' are what they feel are 'acceptable' changes to management and diet.
 
I think that we are playing semantics a little here, but, that seems to be what fuels the forum in a lot of cases. When someone has a number of horses some of which are successfully barefoot and others are not, justifies the often said, 'all horses are different'. This is true and if some horses still struggle when everything is in place and suits 'some' of the barefoot horses, then something else is required for those particular horses. If the key can be found, whatever it is, that will take those horses forward then they too would be ok barefoot.

The question is, how far can you go?

People who have tried almost everything, and their particular horse still cannot be comfortable, really have no option than to revert to shoeing. The rub comes, when people refer to barefoot as some sort of new fad, which of course, it's not. Or talk about their horse not being able to go barefoot, because he's a TB or some other spurious reason.

Basically, we appear to be in agreement, even though I don't phrase things quite as well as I should.
 
If someone finds the key to sucessful barefoot please let me know! I would like to keep mine bare but have failed due to what i said in my previous post, so where did i go wrong? my horse is out during the day but in at night, is the key them being out 24/7?
 
Basically, we appear to be in agreement, even though I don't phrase things quite as well as I should
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That's the crux of it: so many people have really got their back up about barefoot at the moment that you have to be very careful about what you say and how you word it. You are meaning the same thing are everyone else but it needs to read like that too otherwise there are plenty who will pick it to peices.
 
minniemouse said:
If someone finds the key to sucessful barefoot please let me know! I would like to keep mine bare but have failed due to what i said in my previous post, so where did i go wrong? my horse is out during the day but in at night, is the key them being out 24/7?
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What is perfect for my horse may not be perfect for your horse! There is therefore no on succesful 'key' to barefoot :( Which is why there is such a lack of knowledge and why so many belive not all horse could manage barefoot.

Diet is the key, and movement. But they can't move correctly if their feet aren't comfortable from the diet.

Grass is usually the major issue: so are just very very sensitive to the sugar in it and it makes their feet sensitive (mine's a mildly sensitive case). I'm suprised your trimmer hasn't explained the importance if diet (esp grass) to you? Maybe you need a better trimmer?

I would have the horse in during the day (off the grass) and out on restricted grazing with hay supplement at night. Then have your grass and hay analyized and go and talk so someone more experienced like LucyPriory about what needs supplemented. If that still doesn't work I'd have shoes put back on and stay on!
 
With my three, I am incredibly skilled at managing one of them, so she has granite hard hooves and can trot over hardcore without feeling a thing.
The second one I am only partially skilled at managing - she is unshod, but will feel stones etc. Despite being allergic to grass, her feet haven't been 'sensitive' which is rather odd if you believe the grass sensitivity argument.
The third one, I am terrible at managing - she needs shod all round all the time. I don't know how she managed to get to the grand old age of 22yrs sound.
You 'barefooters' must be so knowledgeable and committed, not like the rest of us crap owners.
S :D
 
Minniemouse - it's not just a case of 24 hour turnouot. I am lucky in that I have my own land here in New Zealand and the best thing I have done is set up a track system. This way the horses get far more movement. They get very little "hard feed" - just a taste to encourage them to eat the minerals when I am feeding them. They get unimproved grass and meadow hay when grass is short. The two main things I have found that are necessary to hoof health are movement and no sugar. The more movement the better, at least 20 miles a day. Sugar is found in sweet fresh grass growth as well as in molasses and molassed feeds. I realise this is very difficult to organise in such a crowded country as the UK (where I grew up!). So sometimes we have to take the path which is easiest for us to manage. Alyth
 
Shilasdair said:
With my three, I am incredibly skilled at managing one of them, so she has granite hard hooves and can trot over hardcore without feeling a thing.
The second one I am only partially skilled at managing - she is unshod, but will feel stones etc. Despite being allergic to grass, her feet haven't been 'sensitive' which is rather odd if you believe the grass sensitivity argument.
The third one, I am terrible at managing - she needs shod all round all the time. I don't know how she managed to get to the grand old age of 22yrs sound.
You 'barefooters' must be so knowledgeable and committed, not like the rest of us crap owners.
S :D
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What you ACTUALLY mean Shilasdair is you have

1 horse who is piss easy and can eat what the hell it likes and is fine (tick box, I have one too)

1 horse is a bit sugar sensitive and therefore feels stones cos her diet isn't quite perfect for her (also tick box)

1 horse who's had her feet structure ruined by shoes and feed doesn't suit her at all, and therefore 'needs' shoes on (also tick box, has one of them too)

;)
 
Kallibear said:
What you ACTUALLY mean Shilasdair is you have

1 horse who is piss easy and can eat what the hell it likes and is fine (tick box, I have one too)

1 horse is a bit sugar sensitive and therefore feels stones cos her diet isn't quite perfect for her (also tick box)

1 horse who's had her feet structure ruined by shoes and feed doesn't suit her at all, and therefore 'needs' shoes on (also tick box, has one of them too)

;)
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No, what I actually mean is that I have;
1 horse whose genes include those for rock hard feet - now I could use this horse to spout off about the wonders of barefoot, except I have more sense.
1 horse who is not 'sugar sensitive' - which bit of 'allergy' don't you understand? You think they are allergic to sugar? Seriously, you need to understand nutrition a little better.
1 horse who is Tb and therefore has been bred to run fast on manicured turf, wearing shoes.
Modern Tbs etc are largely human inventions (compare them to Przewalski's horses and even a barefoot practitioner may be able to spot the differences!).
Oh and 'transitioning' = 'unsound' - we all know it, but hopefully most people are too wise to let their horses suffer. I was a volunteer at a 'Le Trec' event a couple of years ago, at which the majority of unshod horses were actually lame, but their owners appeared oblivious. I felt so sorry for the horses... :(
S :D
 
Damn, better go tell Simon Earls horses that their gene's say they need to have shoes on and their correct diet have nothing to do with their good feet. Will be back in a second...........
 
Shilasdair said:
No, what I actually mean is that I have;
1 horse whose genes include those for rock hard feet - now I could use this horse to spout off about the wonders of barefoot, except I have more sense.
1 horse who is not 'sugar sensitive' - which bit of 'allergy' don't you understand? You think they are allergic to sugar? Seriously, you need to understand nutrition a little better.
1 horse who is Tb and therefore has been bred to run fast on manicured turf, wearing shoes.
Modern Tbs etc are largely human inventions (compare them to Przewalski's horses and even a barefoot practitioner may be able to spot the differences!).
Oh and 'transitioning' = 'unsound' - we all know it, but hopefully most people are too wise to let their horses suffer. I was a volunteer at a 'Le Trec' event a couple of years ago, at which the majority of unshod horses were actually lame, but their owners appeared oblivious. I felt so sorry for the horses... :(
S :D
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Wow, and I get called for being a bit blunt, lol.
 
Kallibear said:
Damn, better go tell Simon Earls horses that their gene's say they need to have shoes on and their correct diet have nothing to do with their good feet. Will be back in a second...........
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Actually, I have been to the yard - and because his horses can't manage on anything other than manicured grass, he has taken the following measures;
1. Trackways to fields are covered with rubber matting - if memory serves he gets it from old conveyer belts.
2. Horse walkers are covered with rubber matting/soft surfaces
3. Horses are not led in for grooming/feed/exercise etc - usually they are fed, groomed, and tacked up in the soft grass fields, in electric fence pens.
So really, they never work on anything other than manicured grass...
S :D
 
Kallibear said:
Shilasdar is not known for they tact ;) And in this case their knowledge of nutrition, genes or footcare either;)
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No one could compare with your knowledge - of veterinary, farriery, nutrition, and in another thread, of saddle fitting.
I resist the urge to comment on your horse's need for a 'bute trial (none of mine are on NSAIDs incidentally :p).
S :D
 
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