use a name
Well-Known Member
So,weve gone from shoeing to barefoot to self maintaining.What else is there!?
Iv just shod my horse after 2 yrs bare foot and he's a different horse
- Thread starter thatsmygirl
- Start date
LucyPriory
Well-Known Member
That's a bummer - it's so much easier when they DIY.
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
What a complete and utter load of bullshit!
So ... if all horses with shoes on have numb feet how do we know when they go lame in the foot? You very seriously need to take your head out of your backside.
I cannot see how you can generalise across all equines, large, small, at rest, in light work, heavy and high competition, native breeds, thoroughbreds, young, old, health issues, pregnant, mare, gelding, stallion. This is complete and utter rubbish and anyone who generalises like that needs their horses taking away from them because they obviously have no idea whatsoever what good stable management is. There said it. What is more, my mare is barefoot and so is my daughter's pony! However, if they had issues with lameness I would never ever ever ever hesitate to put shoes on if it made them more comfortable!
BonneMaman
Well-Known Member
Like quite a few people, I hunt every weekend on a barefoot horse. Nic Barker has a whole string of barefoot hunters. I have competed affiliated eventing to novice (over 4ft max height with landings generally made of stone chippings) on five different horses. I am aware of several other affiliated eventers, one at Intermediate and there was one Advanced horse who could not be kept sound in shoes so they ran it without. There are also plenty of long distance horses barefoot. Dressage doesn't count for me, but there are hundreds doing dressage.
That is great and I am really pleased for you - I too have a pony that is barefoot and a horse that is currently barefoot. However, there are thousands more professionals who do shoe their horses. If you look at any of the top string of Kevin Staut, William Fox-Pitt, Edward Gal, (all of whom are leading the Rolex FEI rankings in their chosen discipline) I challenge you to find one horse that is competing barefoot. I do not believe that any of these riders or the horses' owners would choose to harm their animals in any way - they are worth far too much money!
Bug2007
Well-Known Member
My TB won't walk out the yard without shoes on....she hates having them off, i tried her barefoot when we backed her.....having none of it.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
WELL SAID agree with every word, but it's a loseing battle on this subject. If your horse can't cope bare foot you get told your horse is lame and has problems not that it just can't cope and is foot sore.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Your horse must be lame and have problems in his feet than or you don't know how to feed him right. This is what I get told as iv put shoes back on mine.
I would rather have mine shod than pottering about uncomfy
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
You are clearly unable to read what I wrote.
Not all lack of straightness in a horse can be seen and no farrier was born with MRI. I criticise no farrier for shoeing a horse straight if it appears to be straight, in fact I would criticise them for doing anything else.
I have, if you read back my previous postings on other threads always acknowledged that there are good trimmers and bad trimmers. Get your facts right before you start criticising me!
If you think that the foal point contradicts me, then I am unable to help, since you live in a world where logic works differently from mine. If you can straighten an unformed limb with open growth plates by trimming the foot, can you not see that if you were to give a leg with sealed growth plates a foot that did not suit the (perhaps hidden) bentness of the horse that the only thing that could possibly happen would be to put strains on joints and/or muscles that should not be there?
A horse with a poor trim can resolve its issues and I am forming a new thread at the moment which will explain how. A horse with a shoe that does not suit its bentness is forced to accommodate the shoe, it cannot modify its own hoof. For me, a bad trim will always be preferable to shoeing out of balance. Neither are desireable.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
Anyone who's horse is slightly short striding or "footy", sore, not right, whatever, shod or unshod should consider getting a specialist lameness vet to do a lameness work up. You might be surprised how lame your horse actually is when one of a pair of feet is blocked. 
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Before you posted this I also posted this on this thread which I assume you did not see:
"Only long distance as far as I know, Rosita. At top level, winning is what counts. Dressage horses are often shod to modify their gait to make it as much as possible what the judge wants to see. Eventers need studs at that level if they are going all out to win, and studs need shoes. Showjumpers need studs on grass and having been shod for grass at lower levels you wouldn't take a top class horse who is performing well through a transition to shoeless.
Anyone know any International level barefooters??"
Your challenge to me is redundant.
Are you aware of what a huge proportion of the top level horses are joint medicated routinely? I have no idea if shoes are implicated in any way, but the level of work they do certainly causes many of them to have what an ordinary horse owner would consider more than "fair wear and tear".
Smile_and_Wave
Well-Known Member
mine generally are barefoot if i can do just for cheapness really but if they need shoes they will get them, my little mare isnt really a bad mover without shoes infront but you can just tell she could move better and with the shoes on she moves a million times better and is looser too, another horse i had was very much like yours too she had pretty good feet but she just didnt really stride out and felt lazy but when shod she was great and would really walk out properly
use a name
Well-Known Member
I agree,whether a horse is shod or not its likely you will see if they're lame.At the same time i do believe the shoes stop the horse feeling so much to an extent.In fact,i could flip it,they may feel more because their feet arnt strong because of always having shoes on,where as an unshod horse will become tougher.So any little thing they feel quite bad.And have any of you thought that possibly,an unshod horse is simply 'slow' because they feel comfortable on their feet?And possibly,a shod horse either,stops feeling so much,or dislikes the shoes and acts more 'forward going' because they are trying to get away from/showing outward dislike to the shoes?I know id feel more comfortable with a sensible horse that one thats skittering about and id definitly be wondering why their acting so stupid(be it shoes or some other problem)because its not actually natural...The hoof never touches the floor.Its constantly raised,and whats more,its raised unevenly as the middle is left open.Almost like platforms.That means the frog never touches the ground,meaning not enough blood being pumped correctly around the foot,starving tissue.Also,the feet will not be so strong because they have never hardened up from the ground.The nails in the hoof do no good,weakening the horn.And im sorry,but as for saying its bad stable management!I understand that many shod horses go on years,i cant argue with that,but shoeing just doesnt sit right with me personally having learnt the damage it causes and the facts on why shoeing is bad(even if proper damage is not caused,the way it alters the foots way of working).I am not trying to convince anyone to change,i am just trying to put a point across.There are more shoers than barefooters,and it seems to me that all you get told is your stupid.You dont like to listen to the pure facts,about the anatomy of the foot,and what damages certain things can cause.And im not trying to say your all cruel,its just very frustrating when your made out to be dumb because no one wants to listen.You lot just seem to treat it more as a joke.But your too narrow minded to think any differently. But i know you'll just read this and go ''oh look,another nerd from the barefoot brigade is off on one again!''
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
sorry use a name, but its utter rubbish that a horse is 'slow' because its comfortable, and uncomfortable when its walking on, swing nicely through ear pricked! Utter rubbish. I don't not agree with barefoot but that is the stupidest thing I have heard in a bit!
Now I am not diagreeing with you about the whole frog, nail thing, but at the end of the day its horses for courses!
Now I am not diagreeing with you about the whole frog, nail thing, but at the end of the day its horses for courses!
use a name
Well-Known Member
Say what you will,but it is possible.If a horse is nicely walking along sensibly its obviously pretty calm.If a horse is skittering/highly strung and is CONSTANTLY forward theres obviously something wrong.Im sorry,but horses in the wild are not naturally scatty all the time.You will probably say they are to protect themselves from predators but its not true,they should generally be calm and at ease while still alert,except for when the flight instict needs to take over. You dont want to explore the different reasonings.Thats your problem.You will see what you want to see and keep your ears closed to everything else and yet the only reasoning any of you come up with is 'its rubbish'.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Words fail me. You do the barefoot cause an injustice.
(You also backtrack on your generalised views of farriers and vets from previous threads where you accuse them of putting money before ethics.)
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
There is no "barefoot cause". There are only a group of us who mostly don't know each other but who do know what we are talking about and share that knowledge as much as we dare in the face of incredible hostility on this forum. I dare more than most, is all. By doing so I have done justice to at least two horses who would have been put down by now and their owners. And while one horse or owner exists to be helped I will take the risk of upsetting people like you, sorry.
Will people PLEASE stop thinking that when barefooters say that most horses can, with varying levels of difficulty, go barefoot with the right diet and environment and work that this is a suggestion that you personally do not do your best for your horse. IT MEANS NO SUCH THING!!!! It is YOU reading insult into most of the posts which you take exception to.
Some horses are easy.
Some are a bit more difficult and people need to adjust diet/environment/work to allow the horse to produce the right feet.
Some are terribly difficult and these are often the ones which are also damaged by shoes, leaving us with no choice but to work hard to produce an environment where they can cope.
No-one blames the people who don't want to, or simply can't, provide what their horse needs to work without shoes. We feel sorry for the people who have the easy horses and don't even know it because their farrier isn't telling them, and are paying for shoes they don't need. But all this "you're accusing me of not doing the best for my horse" rubbish is coming mostly from the owners of shod horses reading generalisations which are correct as a personal insult which was never intended, and not from barefooters. The above exchange with username is a good example. Username says a horse can be very forward due to lameness and some fool, and I use the word advisedly says "but its utter rubbish that a horse is ..... uncomfortable when its walking on, swing nicely through ear pricked! ". Of course that's utter rubbish. It's not what username said and yet the poster manages to take huge offence from what was not even written. That has happened time and time and time again on this thread.
Going back to your post after my small diversion
, I backtrack on nothing. Regarding farriers and vets, I do not accuse "THEM" of putting money before ethics. I accuse SOME of them of putting money before ethics and more than some of them of a complete lack of interest in something which appears to strongly benefit the foot-lame horse.If is a fact that some vets have a lack of skill and/or ethics. Recent examples from this forum include:
a vet who turned up to investigate a "not quite right behind" feeling by the owner and diagnosed kissing spines requiring a full scintigraph (£1000ish and surprise surprise, his practice had a machine) without even doing flexion tests on the hocks.
a vet whose claim direct to the insurer was later seen by the owner and had on it a number of visits to the horse which were never made
a vet who did a complete lameness workup including xrays on a horse recovering from an abcess which still had a hole in its foot and one shoe off and one shoe on.
and from another forum - a vet who visited a barefoot horse with what turned out to be an abcess and advised that the horse needed shoes, in the face of the horse's history of soundness without them and the fact that this was a strong unilateral lameness.
I accuse the farriers who shoe three year olds without question and without any evidence that the horse needs shoes either for itself or the owner of, at best, incompetence in not knowing how many horses can cope without, and at worst putting money before ethics.
There are lots and lots and lot of good vets and farriers. There are still too many who are closed-minded about barefoot horses.
Words fail you? I wish they would.
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Flame_
Well-Known Member
cptrayes, you've told us about the barefoot option. You've told us a lot. I can't speak for everyone, but just from me, cheers, it is appreciated but please know when to stop banging on about it like its the be all and end all.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
While people continue to write posts which are not true I will continue to answer them. Folowing the motto on your avatar, has it escaped you that it is actually optional to run your eyes across the screen and read the text? If you do not wish to read what I write, go into my profile and press the button to ignore me, I won't mind.
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MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
You backtrack on statements from previous posts/threads when challenged. You make statements that are not correct.
I am tired of having to justify myself as being in favour of keeping horses unshod if it is to their benefit. Let some of the more reasonable pro-barefooters have a shot at unalienating those of us fast becoming jaded by barefoot rants.
I am tired of having to justify myself as being in favour of keeping horses unshod if it is to their benefit. Let some of the more reasonable pro-barefooters have a shot at unalienating those of us fast becoming jaded by barefoot rants.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
I can ignore you without the button, as I'm sure so can most, but I do worry that some more impressionable people might actually be convinced you know better than the vets.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Please tell me which statements I make that are incorrect and which I have backtracked on in a PM so that we stop boring other people on this thread. If there are any which are in any way significant then I will issue a public withdrawal.
siennamum
Well-Known Member
Honestly I wonder whether you actually own or have any real experience of horses. I certainly think you are doing the barefoot cause no favours at all.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
use a name-you realise you keep saying different things, making them up and contradicting other 'barefooters'?
SirenaXVI
Well-Known Member
What a load of twaddle.
I also wonder just how much experience with horses you actually have
Incidentally, my horses are unshod, purely because it is right for them and they have extraordinarily good feet. If one of them needed shoes, then she would have them.
I am sick to death of the evangelical rubbish spouted by barefoot zealots on this forum.
Each and ever horse is different, each and every horse has differing needs, barefoot is not a cure all, it works for some and not for others, please do not keep shoving it down our throats.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
OH MY GOD I'm crying here with laughter. Do you actually believe what you have just wrote????
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
What a load of twaddle.
I also wonder just how much experience with horses you actually have
Incidentally, my horses are unshod, purely because it is right for them and they have extraordinarily good feet. If one of them needed shoes, then she would have them.
I am sick to death of the evangelical rubbish spouted by barefoot zealots on this forum.
Each and ever horse is different, each and every horse has differing needs, barefoot is not a cure all, it works for some and not for others, please do not keep shoving it down our throats.
totally agree, a good post
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
'...intelligent breeding? wots that then? My 'oss might be knock-kneed, cow-hocked, sway-backed, have psychotic tendancies and other dreadful genetics in his background, but by god, he's got good feet!'....
WHAT a thread.
I have followed with interest, laughed, cried, howled with mirth at those who think the are 'All-Knowing' and declined to contribute until now as there is not point in trying to reason with those who are so blinkered in their ways of thinking....
Can some not see that whatever is best for the horse, is best for the horse? Whether bare-foot, shod or slippered.......we all have preferences.
Compare yourself to your horse.
For instance...Me.
Knackered shoulder.
Blown left ankle ligament.
Blown right knee ligament.
Damaged lower vertebrae.
Bone spavin in right ankle.
Right wrist got navicular.....
On right foot, toes grown all weird. Dr's once tried to prove it was 'bad shoeing' on mothers part, tests proved otherwise.
My god....maybe it was my diet?? Too many 'Wham!' bars perchance....?
I'd have been shot long ago if I was an 'oss. I'm not perfect, far from it....and neither I'm afraid.....are your horses, whether you like to think so or not.
Barefooters - Accept that not everyone agrees with you. Accept that others believe their horses ARE better shod because years and years of breeding has indeed had an effect on how horses are made up. And like everything in evolution, things change....
Shodfooters - Accept that not everyone agrees with you. You shoe your horse, it works, if your horse ain't lame, of course you ain't gonna fix it!
WHAT a thread.
I have followed with interest, laughed, cried, howled with mirth at those who think the are 'All-Knowing' and declined to contribute until now as there is not point in trying to reason with those who are so blinkered in their ways of thinking....
Can some not see that whatever is best for the horse, is best for the horse? Whether bare-foot, shod or slippered.......we all have preferences.
Compare yourself to your horse.
For instance...Me.
Knackered shoulder.
Blown left ankle ligament.
Blown right knee ligament.
Damaged lower vertebrae.
Bone spavin in right ankle.
Right wrist got navicular.....
On right foot, toes grown all weird. Dr's once tried to prove it was 'bad shoeing' on mothers part, tests proved otherwise.
My god....maybe it was my diet?? Too many 'Wham!' bars perchance....?
I'd have been shot long ago if I was an 'oss. I'm not perfect, far from it....and neither I'm afraid.....are your horses, whether you like to think so or not.
Barefooters - Accept that not everyone agrees with you. Accept that others believe their horses ARE better shod because years and years of breeding has indeed had an effect on how horses are made up. And like everything in evolution, things change....
Shodfooters - Accept that not everyone agrees with you. You shoe your horse, it works, if your horse ain't lame, of course you ain't gonna fix it!
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Dragonslayer- very good post
*hic*
village idiot :D
And multi-horse owners (me!) do the right thing by each of your horses with regard to age, work, foot conformation and anything else you can think of to ensure a sound happy horse!
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
*reminds self not to bother having DragonSlayer 5 stage vetted....*