Ive been reading replies on another post.........

S

soph21

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Richie_is_a_looney's post about her horse being stuck in.
Some of the replies stunned me!

I cant understand how some people let their horses get away with it!!!
If my horse booted me for no reason, he'd have a whip accross his ass!!! If it was a mistake then fair enough but they were doing intentionally then god help them!!
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Manners Manners Manners!!!!

Unbelievable
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rant over
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Indeed
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Unless I've done something to cause my horse to boot me (and can't think what I could do), then if hoss boots me, hoss gets booted back. Simples.

Dizz is now in for two weeks - it's going to be an interesting time m'thinks
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Absolutely agree with you,if they kick or bite intentionally then a bloody good telling off is in order!Annoys me to,have dealt with so many ill mannered horses in the past,sad thing is they get the blame when 90% of the time it is owner fault
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Haven't read the post, but I too am obsessed with manners.
Fella has only ever bitten me once, he got well and truly told off and he has never bitten me since. He also does silly things, like automatically turning around when I am bringing him in, so I can shut gates. I expect that from my horses. I don't even think about it tbh until I am leading somebody elses horse and they don't do it!
If a horse ever kicked me, boy would it be in trouble...
 
I do not recall all of that post, read a little of it, but I agree manners are imperative, horses with bad manners drive me nuts.
They are large animals and need some discipline much as children do imo.

ETS: In fact more than children as they can be bloody dangerous!
 
I think every horse is unique, and I don't think it is right to judge her or the horse when you don't know the situation or the horse fully. I really feel for her, sounds like a difficult situation and I wish her the best of luck with however she decides to approach it. I hardly think she would put herself in that situation by choice if she had a real alternative and its pretty sad for you to assume you would do a better job. I dont normally get involved in these kinds of posts but I felt I had to say something here as starting a new thread about this appears tantamount to bullying
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It's what happens when you keep an animal uncessarily locked up 24/7..........

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Quite! i havnt read the other thread but if you keep an animal that is physically/mentally designed to live outside continually moving and grazing in a confined space where it can only move 3 steps before hitting a wall then im not surprised its behaviour changes and becomes undesirable. Im all for good manners, i HATE bad manners but if an owner causes a problem it is TOTALLY unfair to punish the horse because of it.

A dog shut in a crate/cage or car boot 24/7 has the equivalent space to a horse in a stable but a dog would howl its head off if kept in such a way. This is hard to ignore. Horses dont express their behaviour this way though, so people accept horses being shut in but get arsey if the horse isnt an angel!
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(Box rest is obviously an exception).
 
i havnt read to post but manners are a must with any horse i go near, far to many people i know let there horse push and pull them around and it drives me mad, it is so rude! prince nevers puts a foot out of line, if he is going to have a spak whilst be led he does but he never ever pulls me. my pet hate is bargy horses.
 
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It's what happens when you keep an animal uncessarily locked up 24/7..........

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Quite! i havnt read the other thread but if you keep an animal that is physically/mentally designed to live outside continually moving and grazing in a confined space where it can only move 3 steps before hitting a wall then im not surprised its behaviour changes and becomes undesirable. Im all for good manners, i HATE bad manners but if an owner causes a problem it is TOTALLY unfair to punish the horse because of it.

A dog shut in a crate/cage or car boot 24/7 has the equivalent space to a horse in a stable but a dog would howl its head off if kept in such a way. This is hard to ignore. Horses dont express their behaviour this way though, so people accept horses being shut in but get arsey if the horse isnt an angel!
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(Box rest is obviously an exception).

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Sadly some of us are not blessed with safe fields to turnout in!!
Weather conditions here have turned a lumpy boggy gateway to our field into a break your leg trap as it is that frozen
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Sometimes the weather makes the decision you really dont want to make for your horse!I dont want my boy in at all but he is safe!
 
Of course a horse must have manners. But even the most mannerly animal will go stir crazy evenually.....

And I can't believe my TO is any safer than anyone elses. We simply don't give our horses enough credit for being able to look after themselves. Most are sensible when it comes to an 'iffy' surface...
 
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It's what happens when you keep an animal uncessarily locked up 24/7..........

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from what i remember of the post, she wasn't keeping him in on purpose.

but, yes, i agree with OP. manners are v important. if my horse kicked me, he'd get a good (immediate) telling off. however, i know someone who allows her horse to bite/kick/flatten ears/etc etc at her. she thinks it's 'part of his character'.
 
I agree TT, but for various reasons horses have to be kept in stables (I prefer mine out 24/7, but until I have my own land they have to be stabled). When stabled, horses still have to repect the humans around them.
 
Heres the link
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/sh...2&fpart=all

One lady on the post has a biotic leg from getting kicked by a vicious horse!
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I totally understand if a horse is only like it because of this weather and being stuck in as my boy Bear hates being stabled, mind you he doesn't get nasty, just a fidget.
But generally I would not allow a horse to treat me or anyone else in this manner on a normal day to day basis!
 
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Of course a horse must have manners. But even the most mannerly animal will go stir crazy evenually.....

And I can't believe my TO is any safer than anyone elses. We simply don't give our horses enough credit for being able to look after themselves. Most are sensible when it comes to an 'iffy' surface... [/quote

Yes they do look after themselves,mine did when he lived out 24/7,he chose not to walk in the frozen muddy lumpy gateway,he now dosnt have the option as he is stabled at night so Has to walk through the frozen gateway!
 
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I think every horse is unique, and I don't think it is right to judge her or the horse when you don't know the situation or the horse fully. I really feel for her, sounds like a difficult situation and I wish her the best of luck with however she decides to approach it. I hardly think she would put herself in that situation by choice if she had a real alternative and its pretty sad for you to assume you would do a better job. I dont normally get involved in these kinds of posts but I felt I had to say something here as starting a new thread about this appears tantamount to bullying
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Im not bullying
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I find some of the replies intersting in the thread RE BAD MANNERS.
I know the OP doesn't keep him in 24/7, its only because of this blasted weather
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But the fact that some people just seem to let their horses' vicious, bad behaviour go over their heads is beyond me!
Like I say if any of mine barged/kicked/bit me god help them! They know better, and I wouldn't let a half ton animal walk all over me
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*whispers*
Can I just say its time of the month
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I dont usually start threads like this but feeling brave
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Of course a horse must have manners. But even the most mannerly animal will go stir crazy evenually.....

And I can't believe my TO is any safer than anyone elses. We simply don't give our horses enough credit for being able to look after themselves. Most are sensible when it comes to an 'iffy' surface... [/quote

Yes they do look after themselves,mine did when he lived out 24/7,he chose not to walk in the frozen muddy lumpy gateway,he now dosnt have the option as he is stabled at night so Has to walk through the frozen gateway!

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My heart skipped about a 100 beats this morning when I went to the fields, Bear saw me and came cantering down to the gate but his legs were out of control
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I shat myself that he was going to fall and hurt himself
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Thankfully he didn't go splat on the floor or in to the gate
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Scary stuff, cos all we're having down here is ice
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Richie does indeed sound like a loony and the sort were a good whack earlier on in life or a bullet (
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) would go a long way.
 
I do agree but then i also do have a bargy horse - 99% of the time he's fine though and trust me we have been very firm with him but now after 14 years it is part of his 'character' I guess. However, he would never intentionally injure anyone or kick or bite etc, he comes to his name and or food and generally loves people so I don't ever feel I am not in control of him as such.

With regards turnout I can understand the whole icy yard etc but I still feel it's down to old fashioned hard work to sort the ice, and we have our own fields and yes as they got boggy they are now rutted and hard (in places) but away from the gate areas and general horse 'hang around' area the field is ok, frozen but ok. I give my horses credit to look after themselves (as the ponies in the new forest and on dartmoor do). Sadly injuries can and do happen but no more so than on 'normal' days. We can't wrap horses up in cotton wool after all.

What amazes me more is the amount of people who their first reaction is "give it a sedative"! What is this whole trend for drugging horses? I don't believe any horses should be sedated unless in very extreme circumstances. It shocks me the amount of people who seem to rely on sedatives and administer them at any given opportunity - especially those times when a horse is, well being a horse!!!

It's like putting any excitable child on ritilin and labelling them as having ADHD (erm, no, aren't they just being a child?!!) Madness.
 
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from what i remember of the post, she wasn't keeping him in on purpose.



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I understand that sometimes a horse has to be box rested or has to stay in due to other circumstances such as ice. However my point was that the majority of horses undesirable behaviour is man made. You cant then whip it if you have caused the problem in the first place (intentionally or not).

I have read the other thread now and to me the poor horse just isnt coping with being shut in. This is not abnormal behaviour for a horse that isnt meant to be shut in a tiny space. Yes, it is not safe but giving it a whip across the backside is NOT a solution and wll hardly make the situation any better. Its not about manners in this situation- the horse cant cope and is trying to get out, it is highly stressed and as such is displaying behaviour that is dangerous to the owner. The owner therefore has to try and reduce the stress through sedation and many of the other suggestions so th horse becomes less dangerous. The horse then needs ongoing training so it becomes less stressed and reactive.

You have to think about it from the horses point of view- what will it think if it gets whipped or kicked because it is trying to communicate it is stressed? Or you can to put it another way - get your OH or friend to shut you in your bathroom for a week without explanation then when you complain they punch you in the face. Is it bad manners that you are complaining or is it because you are stressed?

Whipping/hitting a horse is very rarely acceptable, it should not be used due to a lack of understanding of horse behaviour and certainly not to punish a behaiour that you have caused, even for good reasons. Manners are different but even then you dont need to beat a horse to teach it manners.
 
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Of course a horse must have manners. But even the most mannerly animal will go stir crazy evenually.....

And I can't believe my TO is any safer than anyone elses. We simply don't give our horses enough credit for being able to look after themselves. Most are sensible when it comes to an 'iffy' surface...

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Yes they do look after themselves,mine did when he lived out 24/7,he chose not to walk in the frozen muddy lumpy gateway,he now dosnt have the option as he is stabled at night so Has to walk through the frozen gateway!

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My heart skipped about a 100 beats this morning when I went to the fields, Bear saw me and came cantering down to the gate but his legs were out of control
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I shat myself that he was going to fall and hurt himself
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Thankfully he didn't go splat on the floor or in to the gate
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Scary stuff, cos all we're having down here is ice
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Our gateway is unbelievable,turned him out couple days ago and i was cringing at how he was cobbling over
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,well and truly had enough of this weather now!I hate leaving him in(he used to hate it and go crackers,alot more settled on the yard he is on now and just seems to accept it),but sometimes the cons of turning out outweigh the pros
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But who wants a fight with a half tonne creature? Because I know some horses where if they want you to eff off out their 'area' aren't going to take kindly to being told off. For example, when you feed my horse, he will kick out behind him if he thinks you're 'stealing' his food. He does it to horse and human (more horse though) and as a result once we've fed we leave him alone. Letting him get away with it, or picking our fight? You never know the full story on a forum (Cheeky has a good reason why he's overly protective of his food) so its never our place to judge, just offer advice.
 
I accept that any horse is going to get fractious when left in for an extended period of time.

I think the issue on this particular thread was that the horse was bad to handle anyways and had been since owned as a foal, I think thats the point soph is trying to make anyway and fwiw I mostly agree.

and that the current situation has now brought this bad behaviour to breaking point.
 
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from what i remember of the post, she wasn't keeping him in on purpose.



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I understand that sometimes a horse has to be box rested or has to stay in due to other circumstances such as ice. However my point was that the majority of horses undesirable behaviour is man made. You cant then whip it if you have caused the problem in the first place (intentionally or not).

I have read the other thread now and to me the poor horse just isnt coping with being shut in. This is not abnormal behaviour for a horse that isnt meant to be shut in a tiny space. Yes, it is not safe but giving it a whip across the backside is NOT a solution and wll hardly make the situation any better. Its not about manners in this situation- the horse cant cope and is trying to get out, it is highly stressed and as such is displaying behaviour that is dangerous to the owner. The owner therefore has to try and reduce the stress through sedation and many of the other suggestions so th horse becomes less dangerous. The horse then needs ongoing training so it becomes less stressed and reactive.

You have to think about it from the horses point of view- what will it think if it gets whipped or kicked because it is trying to communicate it is stressed? Or you can to put it another way - get your OH or friend to shut you in your bathroom for a week without explanation then when you complain they punch you in the face. Is it bad manners that you are complaining or is it because you are stressed?

Whipping/hitting a horse is very rarely acceptable, it should not be used due to a lack of understanding of horse behaviour and certainly not to punish a behaiour that you have caused, even for good reasons. Manners are different but even then you dont need to beat a horse to teach it manners.

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I also have read all comments now and some pretty good advice on there
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,sounds like the horse has physchological issues at the best of times
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,i would be getting a vet in with help on the sedation front or...kicking off big time at the farmer(probably wont help as most dont give a toss when it comes to horses,they only have us there to make them abit of cash on land they wouldnt use for anything else
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,my experience anyway
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)!!
 
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from what i remember of the post, she wasn't keeping him in on purpose.



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I understand that sometimes a horse has to be box rested or has to stay in due to other circumstances such as ice. However my point was that the majority of horses undesirable behaviour is man made. You cant then whip it if you have caused the problem in the first place (intentionally or not).

I have read the other thread now and to me the poor horse just isnt coping with being shut in. This is not abnormal behaviour for a horse that isnt meant to be shut in a tiny space. Yes, it is not safe but giving it a whip across the backside is NOT a solution and wll hardly make the situation any better. Its not about manners in this situation- the horse cant cope and is trying to get out, it is highly stressed and as such is displaying behaviour that is dangerous to the owner. The owner therefore has to try and reduce the stress through sedation and many of the other suggestions so th horse becomes less dangerous. The horse then needs ongoing training so it becomes less stressed and reactive.

You have to think about it from the horses point of view- what will it think if it gets whipped or kicked because it is trying to communicate it is stressed? Or you can to put it another way - get your OH or friend to shut you in your bathroom for a week without explanation then when you complain they punch you in the face. Is it bad manners that you are complaining or is it because you are stressed?

Whipping/hitting a horse is very rarely acceptable, it should not be used due to a lack of understanding of horse behaviour and certainly not to punish a behaiour that you have caused, even for good reasons. Manners are different but even then you dont need to beat a horse to teach it manners.

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Excellent post! Perfect Manners by Kelly Marks (I think) is a good read too and can help teach manners without resorting to beating. If she beats this horse, given its temperament, it could kill her.
 
I think the post made it clear that the horse has had problems all his life about people/other animals being in his space and OP was honest about keeping him because she wouldn't ever pass his problems on. I also think it is very easy to say you wouldn't tolerate any horse being what you call bad mannered but in many of the cases mentioned on the post it has either been a one off or has been an issue that couldn't be cured but was recognised as being an issue and dealt with as safely as possible. Many horses are dangerous and would go all out to hurt you if you don't recognise and deal appropriately with their issues. We have one who would kick the living daylights out of you when rugging if not done a certain way and very carefully at that! I could beat the hell out of him every time he reacts and it would not make the slightest bit of difference, it is an issue he came with and whilst I can now rug him safely I would never pass him on without showing a new owner how to do it in a way he will accept. This horse is a lovely lad in all other ways but obviously has had a bad experience with rugging that he just cannot get over. I believe that unless you are willing to 'end'it all for a horse with these issues then you have to learn how to deal with them in a safe manner and get on with it. If you have never had to deal with a horse like this then you are very lucky and probably in the minority of horse owners as I'm sure that a high number of owners on here will have come across horses like this and dealt with it the best they can. I, for one, feel for Richie's owner, she is in a terrifying position and I only hope she can resolve the situation with injury to herself or Richie.
 
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Sadly some of us are not blessed with safe fields to turnout in!!
Weather conditions here have turned a lumpy boggy gateway to our field into a break your leg trap as it is that frozen
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Sometimes the weather makes the decision you really dont want to make for your horse!I dont want my boy in at all but he is safe!

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But surely the horse doesn't know that it's being done for his own safety? And therefore might have a right to be grumpy, as to him, it just seems like he's suddenly in a box 24/7 when the day before he was in a field all day.
I don't really think you can expect a horse to behave angelically, even if you are doing your very best for him (which i'm sure pretty much everyone on here is doing!) as he doesn't know.
I certainly am not condoning owners allowing horses to attack them, but I do think they should be cut some slack. I think hitting a horse for putting its ears back at you (which i believe someone did say earlier) is unneccesary.
(if i told off the TB every time he put his ears back at me when i'm handling him i'd pretty much be reprimanding him nonstop, he's a grumpy sod
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I've just read most of the post about Richie and have to say i'm not sure giving that horse a smack would fix anything. If it were my mare a smack would definitely give her a shock and make her behave but sounds like Richie has lots of other problems about people being in his space etc. I'd say he needs some professional help to retrain him and make him less dangerous.
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Thats just my opinion. So i can see why the responses are different.
 
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