Ive been reading replies on another post.........

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It's what happens when you keep an animal uncessarily locked up 24/7..........

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ITA!
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George would flip his lid if he couldn't go out.

HOWEVER, I do agree that manners are key and if he kicked out at me he'd get recompense for that.
 
When people purchase a horse they need to ensure that the horses temprement is suitable for the environment they intend keeping it in. If for instance the yard is on a busy road then the horse needs to be safe on the roads and in traffic so that it can be excercised. The same applies to turnout etc.

I would suggest that the horse in question is clearly challanging in behaviour and would be best off being kept in a private yard where it would be able to have the conditions that it requires.
 
I replied to her, suggesting ACP. I don't use it personally but the horse is effectively on enforced box rest and becoming dangerous. Vets prescribe it for exactly that reason. Better for him to have that and her be safe than to be kicked. It's not ideal but for whatever reason the horse is how it is and she has to deal with it on a day to day basis now.

Teaching a horse manners is a legnthy process when you have a horse thats aggresive.

I have an ID x TB who is now 13, I have had him since a foal. I am firm and consistant and can do anything with him but it is in his nature to occasionally be agressive. He has never kicked or bitten me but it is because I know how to handle him. I don't think you can judge someone over a forum and yes he needs manners but she is looking for an immediate solution to a potentially angerous situation.
 
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When people purchase a horse they need to ensure that the horses temprement is suitable for the environment they intend keeping it in. If for instance the yard is on a busy road then the horse needs to be safe on the roads and in traffic so that it can be excercised. The same applies to turnout etc.

I would suggest that the horse in question is clearly challanging in behaviour and would be best off being kept in a private yard where it would be able to have the conditions that it requires.

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Oh yes private yard would be wonderful if i had one,Its not just something you can whip out of thin air,and when i got him as a 12.2 baby i didnt know he would turn into a 16.3 menace did i?
 
When I was sat at my vets reception yesterday one of the vets was having a discussion with a nurse about hand reared foals.

he said it is a bad idea as people don't have the courage to give the foal a smack when it needs it because "oh it's just a baby horse" whereas a mare would give the foal/yearling a good nip/boot. They were discussing a horse they had coming in who would barge, btie and kick because it was hand-reared and the ower too soft.

It is what they do in the wild - no wonder the horse doesn't respect you. Have you ever seen horses in fields?!
 
This prolonged spell of weather is pretty much unprecedented and were we at a yard where the horses had to come in at night then ours would be going stir crazy too if they had to stay in for days on end subsequently through it not being safe enough to turn them out. I'm not criticising you at all OP, far from it, you have my absolute sympathy.

Is there any way at all that you could grit the area outside his stable so that you could either put him in a small taped off area whilst you muck out. Or if there is a spare stable at your yard where you and your YO could clear a path to it, maybe he could be put in there whilst you safely muck out. (The same stable could be used for all liveries, not just you and could be useful to the whole yard).

It's not surprising that your horse is getting frustrated and it is obvious how much you are worrying about him. Let's hope the weather breaks soon. In the meantime do all you can to stay safe and make sure you wear a hat at all times.
 
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It's what happens when you keep an animal uncessarily locked up 24/7..........

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Agree with this. My horses are fantastically easy natured - one kicked me once however it was purely by accident (he was aiming at another horse who was beside me, I was just a moron!). However, I know that if I stabled them 24/7, they would all get pretty damn grumpy and understandably so. I therefore don't agree with pelting a horse with a whip for displaying his stress! If one of mine MEANT to kick me, Id instantly rethink how he was being kept as clearly he was not happy!
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I've had a difficult horse before, he was horrifically bargy on the ground - he would walk literally over you and could easily crush you up against a door and not even notice. You could not smack this horse as his temperament would turn from simply not knowing his own strength to actual anger. His behaviour would get 10 times worse if my stress increased (even yelling upset him). Firm, calm and consistent handling was the only thing that sorted out his manners. Had I not kept him out 24/7, I think he would have been untouchable!!

I also agree with PeterNatt - people should always try to place a horse in a situation he would be happiest. Whenever I sell any of my horses I am very choosy about not just the person, but the home. For example, I would never sell my current horse to a busy yard - he's a very quiet horse who I know would get easily stressed hence he would only go to a private, quiet yard in the first place.
 
Wow this thread is crazy!

I read and responded to richie's original thread, and the overwhelming response on that was that for now she had to do everything possible to make things safe for now. And that in future when conditions are better the help of someone like a kelly marks RA would help her instil some manners and better behaviour for the future. No one was advocating beating the horse.

They were all trying to suggest different ways of making things safe, there were lots of alternatives given, from clearing/making safe the yard so his usual routine could be restored, to avoiding handling him at all or sedating him or turning him out 24/7. Most of the suggestions were rejected which is pretty disheartening.

What irritates me on here is that often people post for advice/a moan, and when they get a bunch of decent suggestions they make a load of excuses or ignore them. I don't know what richie decided to do in the end but she didn't seem to take up any of the ideas.

The thing is that having horses is hard work, and a huge priviledge. Sometimes things happen whichare unavoidable and make things more difficult, but we owe it to our horses (especially if we have taken on a horse that is young or old or has issues) to make the best of it.

I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.

I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one.
 
Every horse IS unique, my horse bites and its a fact of life now with the way he has been treated, I can assure anyone who thinks brutalising him further will cure his attitude, it wont - and they are most welcome to come try - just say goodbye to your family first.
 
I agree with the NOT hitting/smacking.

My first pony was fab but by feck he could turn just like that if he didnt want to be caught in the field or if he bit you and you smacked him with your hand he would retaliate and it would just make him(as you say richie_is_a_loony) 1000 times worse.
 
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I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.


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Sorry but what amount of foresight could possibly have stopped our lanes, yard, school and fields being covered with a sheet of thick ice?

No amount of creative thinking or hard work will enable a car to get down icy roads that it can't get down. To suggest that people shouldn't have horses because aren't equipped for the current conditions is just ridiculous.
 
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I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.


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I have travelled everyday to the yard, we have had snow, then sheet ice and now snow again on the road since the 20th of December.
The problem is, it snowed, then it rained, then it froze and then it snowed again. So, we are now at the point where we have snow on top of sheet ice.

So, I have a tough decision to make. Do I keep my horse in the safety of the stable and risk her becoming grumpy, or do I put her out and risk her slipping on the ice and breaking her leg.
For me, it's a no brainer, she stays in. I value my horses life over her (short term) mood.

We have shovelled snow, put muck down to make paths to get them out but for 2 days, it was just not safe to do so.

Unless you have seen the conditions some have to deal with, I really don't think people can comment on how others are managing their horses. It has been down to -11 at night and only as high as -2 in the day, so no hope of any thaw
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I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.


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I have travelled everyday to the yard, we have had snow, then sheet ice and now snow again on the road since the 20th of December.
The problem is, it snowed, then it rained, then it froze and then it snowed again. So, we are now at the point where we have snow on top of sheet ice.

So, I have a tough decision to make. Do I keep my horse in the safety of the stable and risk her becoming grumpy, or do I put her out and risk her slipping on the ice and breaking her leg.
For me, it's a no brainer, she stays in. I value my horses life over her (short term) mood.

We have shovelled snow, put muck down to make paths to get them out but for 2 days, it was just not safe to do so.

Unless you have seen the conditions some have to deal with, I really don't think people can comment on how others are managing their horses. It has been down to -11 at night and only as high as -2 in the day, so no hope of any thaw
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Umm exactly you prove my point, you have been getting there and putting yourself out for your horses welfare and are doing the best in the circumstances..........
 
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Wow this thread is crazy!

I read and responded to richie's original thread, and the overwhelming response on that was that for now she had to do everything possible to make things safe for now. And that in future when conditions are better the help of someone like a kelly marks RA would help her instil some manners and better behaviour for the future. No one was advocating beating the horse.

They were all trying to suggest different ways of making things safe, there were lots of alternatives given, from clearing/making safe the yard so his usual routine could be restored, to avoiding handling him at all or sedating him or turning him out 24/7. Most of the suggestions were rejected which is pretty disheartening.

What irritates me on here is that often people post for advice/a moan, and when they get a bunch of decent suggestions they make a load of excuses or ignore them. I don't know what richie decided to do in the end but she didn't seem to take up any of the ideas.

The thing is that having horses is hard work, and a huge priviledge. Sometimes things happen whichare unavoidable and make things more difficult, but we owe it to our horses (especially if we have taken on a horse that is young or old or has issues) to make the best of it.

I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.

I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one.

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Oh don't be so sanctimonious. It isn't ideal for horses to be kept in 24/7 but when it's either that or risking them (or you!!) breaking a leg by trying to turn out on icy ground, I know which I'd prefer. Mine has been in since Saturday pm, along with every other horse on the yard, because it has been far too dangerous to turn out. Yes they are all grumpy and fed up but a few days in the stable won't hurt them. I am not making myself into a martyr by getting up at 5am to spend 2 hours digging paths to the field (which are miles away) before work, just for my horse to stand at the gate once he's eaten the hay that's been put out. If he's just going to stand in the same place, he may as well go on the walker for an hour in the morning and afternoon, and stand in his stable eating. I have a big horse (who has been like Richie's horse in the past, if you read my response to her OP) who can be grumpy and a bit aggressive in the stable. Everyone who handles him knows this so he is handled with tact and care. Despite him being grumpy, fed up with being in and 24/7 in stable not being ideal, I still expect him to maintain his manners. This situation is short term and I will not turn my horse out in this weather (on solid ice, rutted frozen ground with little grass on anyway) just because he might kick me if he doesn't go out. I don't care what everyone else says, in the short term if the horse can't be turned out and is going crazy, sedate it. The NAF Instant Magic calmer tubes are brilliant, I would give one of those each day.

As for being sick of people saying they can't turn out or exercise their horses, well you are welcome to come to our yard and attempt both. The paths to our fields are concrete - great for when it rains as we never get muddy paths, however if it rains then freezes, as it did on saturday, then we are buggered. We just have solid ice everywhere and it is unsafe to attempt to turn out when YO has to walk them all along this. With regards to exercise, our arena has been an ice rink for 3 weeks now bar one or two days, we can't get the horses off the yard to hack, and our gallops are also frozen solid. So if you would like to attempt to exercise my horse in those conditions, please feel free. I work my horse on long reins and in hand a lot but even that isn't possible ATM.

So please get down off your high horse Katt because people *are* making the best of the situation. Oh, and the nearest gritted road to our yard is 7 miles
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Umm exactly you prove my point, you have been getting there and putting yourself out for your horses welfare and are doing the best in the circumstances..........

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Hmm, and there was I thinking I wasn't doing enough by not getting her out of the stable
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I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.


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I have travelled everyday to the yard, we have had snow, then sheet ice and now snow again on the road since the 20th of December.
The problem is, it snowed, then it rained, then it froze and then it snowed again. So, we are now at the point where we have snow on top of sheet ice.

So, I have a tough decision to make. Do I keep my horse in the safety of the stable and risk her becoming grumpy, or do I put her out and risk her slipping on the ice and breaking her leg.
For me, it's a no brainer, she stays in. I value my horses life over her (short term) mood.

We have shovelled snow, put muck down to make paths to get them out but for 2 days, it was just not safe to do so.

Unless you have seen the conditions some have to deal with, I really don't think people can comment on how others are managing their horses. It has been down to -11 at night and only as high as -2 in the day, so no hope of any thaw
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Umm exactly you prove my point, you have been getting there and putting yourself out for your horses welfare and are doing the best in the circumstances..........

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AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING WHAT EXACTLY? we are all getting there and putting ourselfs out for our horses
 
In support of Richie, I just want to say that I admire the fact you are sticking by your boy. Too many horses are given up on as problems and passed on. I have a Shetland who was hand reared and the same story, she was cute when she was a foal, got let off with murder and became a problem. I have had her two years now since she was 18 years old and before that she was passed from home to home, she scared people, she has little sense of self-preservation and will tantrum, bite, kick and rear if she doesn't want to do something. She doesn't load or travel, doesn't tie up (she would rather hang herself) doesn't do the dentist, sedation was a big part of her life and still is for the dentist BUT 2 years on she will stand for the farrier, she doesn't kick or bite anymore and we can actually lead her without an argument. She just needed some firm boundaries and a good home. My heart went out to her when I first met her and I will never ever pass her on, I love her and her faults. So I can fully understand your loyalty to your boy and good on you for standing by him.
 
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Wow this thread is crazy!

I read and responded to richie's original thread, and the overwhelming response on that was that for now she had to do everything possible to make things safe for now. And that in future when conditions are better the help of someone like a kelly marks RA would help her instil some manners and better behaviour for the future. No one was advocating beating the horse.

They were all trying to suggest different ways of making things safe, there were lots of alternatives given, from clearing/making safe the yard so his usual routine could be restored, to avoiding handling him at all or sedating him or turning him out 24/7. Most of the suggestions were rejected which is pretty disheartening.

What irritates me on here is that often people post for advice/a moan, and when they get a bunch of decent suggestions they make a load of excuses or ignore them. I don't know what richie decided to do in the end but she didn't seem to take up any of the ideas.

The thing is that having horses is hard work, and a huge priviledge. Sometimes things happen whichare unavoidable and make things more difficult, but we owe it to our horses (especially if we have taken on a horse that is young or old or has issues) to make the best of it.

I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.

I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one.

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I have Pmed the originator of this post exolaining that i am not dimissing most of the suggestion without trying but over the 5 yrs i have tried and failed with a lot of them,But i dont want people thinking i am not greatful for there time and experiences
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I have started with knocking his feed on the head and just giving him a token sprinkle so he thinks he has had something.As i work long hour from quite early till after it goes dark bute force to clear the yard is gonna have to be a weekend job,But for now i am keeping myself as safe as i can in the situation by not putting myself actually fully in his stable,I am just throwing straw around and will worry about mucking out at a later date when conditions improve.
Thanks for all who have sent supportive replies and those who are just being critical or sarcastic like i said if they wanna come and show me how their methods would work are quite welcome
 
quote from katt 'I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one. '


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I wasn't going to respond to this as so many others have and i felt i had nothing original to add, however, the above post got me a bit riled. I have 2 horses, we are lucky enough to have hard standing so can get them out there so at least they have a decent area to wander about and in the fresh air. Not everyone has this luxury. Katt, nobody is going to risk their horses lives to put them in the field over ice and risk broken legs. We can actually get to our field, but after 2 horses went down to roll and got stuck half way over, we have decided not to put them out. I will put them out for half an hour in the next couple of days but keep a careful eye out.
Most horse owners become adept at risk assessment, so to make the comment that you did, is just ridiculous. Whatever we do is for the good of our horses.

My other point has already been made about whacking or a whip on the arse being the solution to bad manner, what nonsense. they are all individuals with different personalities. just because it is right for yours doesn't make it right for mine. my horse came to me emotionally damaged and if i had whacked her, she would have probably killed me. she was fear aggressive. I worked quietly and patiently and now she is a different creature. if she forgets herself now (which is very rare) all i need to do is change my tone of voice and she will come back into line. Like richie-is-a-looney, i will never sell my horse because if she was handled in the wrong way, she could easily revert to how she was. I take responsibility for her.
 
Please re read my original thread, Im not referring to Richie.

Im really sorry if I have offended or upset you Richie, it wasn't my intention. As I didn't start this thread about you or your boy
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Wow this thread is crazy!

I read and responded to richie's original thread, and the overwhelming response on that was that for now she had to do everything possible to make things safe for now. And that in future when conditions are better the help of someone like a kelly marks RA would help her instil some manners and better behaviour for the future. No one was advocating beating the horse.

They were all trying to suggest different ways of making things safe, there were lots of alternatives given, from clearing/making safe the yard so his usual routine could be restored, to avoiding handling him at all or sedating him or turning him out 24/7. Most of the suggestions were rejected which is pretty disheartening.

What irritates me on here is that often people post for advice/a moan, and when they get a bunch of decent suggestions they make a load of excuses or ignore them. I don't know what richie decided to do in the end but she didn't seem to take up any of the ideas.

The thing is that having horses is hard work, and a huge priviledge. Sometimes things happen whichare unavoidable and make things more difficult, but we owe it to our horses (especially if we have taken on a horse that is young or old or has issues) to make the best of it.

I have been heartily sick of the number of posts from people who "can't" get to their horse, or "can't" get it to the field or exercise it. Whilst I am sure a few are in very tough situations most could have solved the problem with a bit of foresight, some creative thinking and some hard work. If you aren't up to that sort of challenge then perhaps you shouldn't have horses.

I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one.

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Oh don't be so sanctimonious. It isn't ideal for horses to be kept in 24/7 but when it's either that or risking them (or you!!) breaking a leg by trying to turn out on icy ground, I know which I'd prefer. Mine has been in since Saturday pm, along with every other horse on the yard, because it has been far too dangerous to turn out. Yes they are all grumpy and fed up but a few days in the stable won't hurt them. I am not making myself into a martyr by getting up at 5am to spend 2 hours digging paths to the field (which are miles away) before work, just for my horse to stand at the gate once he's eaten the hay that's been put out. If he's just going to stand in the same place, he may as well go on the walker for an hour in the morning and afternoon, and stand in his stable eating. I have a big horse (who has been like Richie's horse in the past, if you read my response to her OP) who can be grumpy and a bit aggressive in the stable. Everyone who handles him knows this so he is handled with tact and care. Despite him being grumpy, fed up with being in and 24/7 in stable not being ideal, I still expect him to maintain his manners. This situation is short term and I will not turn my horse out in this weather (on solid ice, rutted frozen ground with little grass on anyway) just because he might kick me if he doesn't go out. I don't care what everyone else says, in the short term if the horse can't be turned out and is going crazy, sedate it. The NAF Instant Magic calmer tubes are brilliant, I would give one of those each day.

As for being sick of people saying they can't turn out or exercise their horses, well you are welcome to come to our yard and attempt both. The paths to our fields are concrete - great for when it rains as we never get muddy paths, however if it rains then freezes, as it did on saturday, then we are buggered. We just have solid ice everywhere and it is unsafe to attempt to turn out when YO has to walk them all along this. With regards to exercise, our arena has been an ice rink for 3 weeks now bar one or two days, we can't get the horses off the yard to hack, and our gallops are also frozen solid. So if you would like to attempt to exercise my horse in those conditions, please feel free. I work my horse on long reins and in hand a lot but even that isn't possible ATM.

So please get down off your high horse Katt because people *are* making the best of the situation. Oh, and the nearest gritted road to our yard is 7 miles
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I'm not on my high horse or being sanctimonious, and you obviously didn't read my post very carefully.

My comments about snow related to the general posts on the forum over the last week. I know I don't know everyone's circumstances, and I acknowledged in my post that some people are in a tough situation and are doing all they can, but we get a snowy spell at some point most years and there are things that you can do to make it easier to cope with.

Some people, not richie, not anyone specific seem to just give up at the first sight of snow.

People could think about investing in some grit/salt/de-icer or whatever to make their time at the yard easier and to make using their car easier. They could get some snow/winter tyres for their car. They could lag the water pipes. They could consider the proximity and access to their yard before committing to it (not just for snow but for car trouble, illness, floods etc). They could buy a snow shovel to keep in the car in winter. They could consider the type of car they buy. They could (as Peter Natt said) consider their horses needs before choosing a yard, if it needs a lot of regular exercise then perhaps an indoor school is important, or an outdoor with a freeze resistant surface, or a horse walker so that weather isn't as much of an issue.

As I said I know some people are doing everything they can, and that sometimes you have to take a decision that is less than ideal or your YO makes it for you. But there have been people on who have said they can't turn out or ride in their school because they have to walk over an icy yard - daft - they could do something about that. Or that say they can't get to the yard because a stretch of road near the yard or the house is icy or snowy - why not walk a section, or use a shovel or your own grit to make it passable. I've gritted the road I live on in the past to enable me to drive to work.

We have known this cold spell was coming, and the snow, it was on forecasts and there have been severe weather warnings - that should be everyone's cue to plan what they will do and how they will cope.

I've actually been trying to offer people practical advice about how to cope. I've posted about buying grit, and people have replied - oh I didn't think of that where can I get it. I've also pointed out that cat litter or cinders can be used as a substitute in an emergency.

But hey since I'm on my high horse I'll keep my suggestions to myself in future. And I'll wait for all the same people to be having the same moans next year having learnt nothing!
 
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quote from katt 'I'm damn sure that having to clear some snow, or walk from the nearest gritted road wouldn't put me off doing the best for my horse - if I was lucky enough to own one. '


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I wasn't going to respond to this as so many others have and i felt i had nothing original to add, however, the above post got me a bit riled. I have 2 horses, we are lucky enough to have hard standing so can get them out there so at least they have a decent area to wander about and in the fresh air. Not everyone has this luxury. Katt, nobody is going to risk their horses lives to put them in the field over ice and risk broken legs. We can actually get to our field, but after 2 horses went down to roll and got stuck half way over, we have decided not to put them out. I will put them out for half an hour in the next couple of days but keep a careful eye out.
Most horse owners become adept at risk assessment, so to make the comment that you did, is just ridiculous. Whatever we do is for the good of our horses.



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You have entirely missed my point. I'm saying do what is in your horses best interest, as opposed to what is easiest.

Of course if your fields are in a condition which makes them dangerous you shouldn't turn out, but lots of people have fields that are fine and can't get to them from the stable - that could often be solved.

Anyway I'm glad to see richie took up the suggestions on her other post, about staying out of the stable for now and that she plans to try and clear the yard at the weekend.
 
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