Jackhammer trot arghhhhh

[Gingerwitch]

Have been asked to help out with a mare during this lockdown, I must be mad but I says yes, external instructors have been stopped from coming to the yard else I would have said no.
She is a sweet mare but everything is at 100miles an hour.
I have ridden her twice do far and boy is she hard work. If you ask for walk it's at a hundred miles an hour, ask for a half halt its ignored - I don't think she knows what a half halt is. If you take a contact she curls up on you and will then start to trot. The trot is awful, up down up down, again if you try to slow the trot (I resorted to hanging on to the jesus strap today to try and slow my rise and sit it's so fast) so I sat longer and yep we get bronc to canter. I was only intending to do 20 mins but wanted to finish on a positive note.... yeah right 40 mins later we finally got the good note. I have used circles, leg yields, serpentine but she is like the Duracell bunny.
It's going to be a long long road but where would you start. I have never ridden a horse so poorly trained, she is 7.
The owner wont ride her and is talking about retiring her. All vet checks etc done
I took the curb off and put a neck strap on and I have got her stopping on the neck strap already so she is attainable.
My opinion is she has had a very bad experience and is scared of both the contact and your legs. I am insisting on a leg contact which was pretty explosive in the first session, today she reacted but not half as bad
Help

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would get her established in a relaxed walk before attempting trot or canter. Keep her thinking by asking for changes of direction, polework, bending round markers etc. She sounds like a horse which would benefit from physical apparatus in the school so that she can understand where you want her to go and why.

 

[paddi22]

I retrain trotters and they all come in like this, it's exhausting to ride them at the start! yeah it just takes time to get them used to the leg contact and the half halts. it sounds like you have the right idea going about it. I spend a lot of time at the start just wrapping my legs around them and getting them used to half halts and strong leg contact. I don't trot until they are stopping from the seat and understand the half halt in walk. when trotting it's better to keep it to just a few steps and go back to walk, you want them never to get that forward thinking push off, so a few steps and back to walk. trot to halt also good. and like you said tons of circles. I don't let them trot above speed at all, I keep them on a small circle and only let them on a straight line if I've some control over the trot. because there's so much circling I keep arena sessions very short. most of the contact and walk/half half/ to halt work is done on hacks or in fields in straight lines.

a handy exercise it to put two poles paralell a few feet apart on opposite side of circles and do your downward transitions to halt between those. It really helps them understand and prepare themselves to go down a level when they are going through them and it keeps their attention focused. as pearlasinger said, pole work is great for buzzy speedy ones as it gives them a focus point.

 

[LegOn]

I would try get the walk on a long rein relaxed first - something to need to help them realise you want them low and long and a De Gogue 'can' help with this - depending on the horse but can be worth a shot. Then when you ask for trot and she shoots off, come straight back to walk. Relax the walk again and then ask for trot again, as soon as she shoots off, come back to walk again... until she realises you only want a slow longer trot. But it helps establish a half halt aswell because then when you start to get a few nice strides of trot and they start to shoot off... you can prepare to ask for walk which will rebalance her and slow it down but continue the trot, she might prefer then to continue with a trot in the pace you asked for, rather than being constantly being brought back to walk. But any time you get a trot that isnt what you want, back to walk - it can retrain them to realise there is paces within the pace.

It can take time but I did it with a friends ex-racer who went at everything at 100 miles an hour!!!

 

[Gingerwitch]

I retrain trotters and they all come in like this, it's exhausting to ride them at the start! yeah it just takes time to get them used to the leg contact and the half halts. it sounds like you have the right idea going about it. I spend a lot of time at the start just wrapping my legs around them and getting them used to half halts and strong leg contact. I don't trot until they are stopping from the seat and understand the half halt in walk. when trotting it's better to keep it to just a few steps and go back to walk, you want them never to get that forward thinking push off, so a few steps and back to walk. trot to halt also good. and like you said tons of circles. I don't let them trot above speed at all, I keep them on a small circle and only let them on a straight line if I've some control over the trot. because there's so much circling I keep arena sessions very short. most of the contact and walk/half half/ to halt work is done on hacks or in fields in straight lines.

a handy exercise it to put two poles paralell a few feet apart on opposite side of circles and do your downward transitions to halt between those. It really helps them understand and prepare themselves to go down a level when they are going through them and it keeps their attention focused. as pearlasinger said, pole work is great for buzzy speedy ones as it gives them a focus point.

Paddi. I am trying to leave her mouth alone apart from a squeeze release, whilst doing a dog sit move, breathing out and stopping my hips moving and squeezing with my legs, we finally get the 50% speed reduction but it can take quite a few strides, I am flipping knackered I have never used my legs so much. I am also doing a woooow I use this on the ground walking to the indoor with a gentle squeeze on the reins as after yesterday it was obvious that she did not have a clue. But as soon as you relax off we go again.
I know each horse is different but if you had a worried stresshead how long would you expect it to take. I would love to be hacking her out but it's too icy and I need to make sure we have some control as I don't want to jag her mouth. I am seopping her bit to a loose ring narrow link tomorrow and will see how that goes, as she has a really small mouth and a huge tongue.
I can't lunge as she just totally loses the plot and has fell over in the outdoor. I have also been told I can't long rein her as again she has been frightened by the owner losing her and she tanked off with the long lines scaring the life out of her. So I will leave that for the summer

 

[paddi22]

yeah it's very tough not to resort to the bit at times! the half halts I do at the start are totally over emphasised and accompanied by a loud woah. they look absolutely terrible, but you need to exaggerate them until the horse understands. I find I end up really sitting in, clamping legs and really really squeezing my thighs and knees and leaning back. it looks terrible, but you can tone it down as they learn. they just need to learn that this movement proceeds a transition, it makes them more ridable down the line, but it's a tough going process at the start!.

I found it useful to start off doing half halts and halts a few metres away facing a fence or obstacle, so the horse is naturally thinking stop. I do a load of serpent turns across the school and halt when Im facing near a fence. for the trot I end up nearly half halting every stride on some, if they ignore the half halt it's back to halt and then try again. the learning time varies depending on horse, but it's never a quick process.

another handy exercise for any ones who love food, is to teach them to turn down the adrenaline in their bodies quickly. when i start cantering them I always do it up a grassy hill. the buzzy mad ones get very excited, so it's handy to train them to canter a few strides and then immediately go back to halt, give them a loose rein and let them drop their head and eat grass. if you accompany it with a voice command (I use stretch) and a wither scratch, then they gradually learn to switch between high energy and chill. I don't canter them in an arena at all until I know I can switch them down for a buzzy canter easily. the hills are handy as it helps strength them and it gives you more control.

the mistake I made training them at the start was to let them canter and trot around and try and gradually take control, that just used to end up in a wall of death! now I control every step and bring down the pace if I find them are rushing too much. also for the very buzzy ones I find sitting trot easier that rising as it's so easy to just rise faster and actually make the horse go faster unconsciously.

 

[Gingerwitch]

yeah it's very tough not to resort to the bit at times! the half halts I do at the start are totally over emphasised and accompanied by a loud woah. they look absolutely terrible, but you need to exaggerate them until the horse understands. I find I end up really sitting in, clamping legs and really really squeezing my thighs and knees and leaning back. it looks terrible, but you can tone it down as they learn. they just need to learn that this movement proceeds a transition, it makes them more ridable down the line, but it's a tough going process at the start!.

I found it useful to start off doing half halts and halts a few metres away facing a fence or obstacle, so the horse is naturally thinking stop. I do a load of serpent turns across the school and halt when Im facing near a fence. for the trot I end up nearly half halting every stride on some, if they ignore the half halt it's back to halt and then try again. the learning time varies depending on horse, but it's never a quick process.

another handy exercise for any ones who love food, is to teach them to turn down the adrenaline in their bodies quickly. when i start cantering them I always do it up a grassy hill. the buzzy mad ones get very excited, so it's handy to train them to canter a few strides and then immediately go back to halt, give them a loose rein and let them drop their head and eat grass. if you accompany it with a voice command (I use stretch) and a wither scratch, then they gradually learn to switch between high energy and chill. I don't canter them in an arena at all until I know I can switch them down for a buzzy canter easily. the hills are handy as it helps strength them and it gives you more control.

the mistake I made training them at the start was to let them canter and trot around and try and gradually take control, that just used to end up in a wall of death! now I control every step and bring down the pace if I find them are rushing too much. also for the very buzzy ones I find sitting trot easier that rising as it's so easy to just rise faster and actually make the horse go faster unconsciously.

Bless you for this input, I did think I could control the trot by sitting longer.....she has not read the book. I need a long soak before tomorrow I don't think I have ever squeezed so hard to stop. We did get one really reactive stop and I stoid her scratched her neck and just let her chill. I thought yearhhhhh. I should have got off then, but thought lets just do one more.. it ended up in the choppy walk, I asked for a halt, door opened into school and wham manic trot, tried to slow without nagging mouth and it was bronc to canter.... arghhhhhh

 

[paddi22]

also if it's a clever horse it's handy to start doing lateral moves earlier as it keeps their mind occupied. I'm trying to remember the other stuff I do! I always think I have it cracked but then I get a new one in to do and I'm back at square one feeling totally out of control and half halting like a lunatic!

 

[Gingerwitch]

also if it's a clever horse it's handy to start doing lateral moves earlier as it keeps their mind occupied. I'm trying to remember the other stuff I do! I always think I have it cracked but then I get a new one in to do and I'm back at square one feeling totally out of control and half halting like a lunatic!

She throws lateral work at you, we were doing a beautiful travers today almost the whole way around the school, more like 45 degrees though... I tried to bring her straight and she just lost the plot and tried to scoot into canter. The travers trot was the slowest and most rhythmic we have had in 2sessions and none of it was wanted, it was what i got when i put my legs on and refused to take them off lol.

 

[brighteyes]

it's going to be a long job, but you're doing everything right. They back you off the leg - so you are correct to leave it there - the neck strap and voice are also invaluable as new aids.. What breed is she, and how big?

 

[hollyandivy123]

we had one who needed support from the floor, it did feel that it was the biggest lead rein pony, but to break the cycle she has got herself in, which seems to be to over react to the rider it did work. I am not suggesting on the lead rein, but just for the first 10 min an unwilling volunteer to walk with and then "lung" in the sense we would work in a circle around the human, we think it worked as it was a human comforter on the floor in her line of sight.

 

[Gingerwitch]

it's going to be a long job, but you're doing everything right. They back you off the leg - so you are correct to leave it there - the neck strap and voice are also invaluable as new aids.. What breed is she, and how big?

She is a short coupled Irish sport, 16.1 ish, proper powerhouse, wide chest, kind but very worried eye. She was supposed to be 7 but her owner has had her for 4years I think she is 11 or 12 so have asked for her passport as I am having her flu booster done with mine next week all things allowing. She is lead mare in her field to and owner is scared of her so she gets scared.
I have just got back from the yard and she calls along with my others... which is so lovely and she now is bring a bit more trusting when j approach, it's not what I like to see but she leaps back, I like back but not a leap back.

 

[brighteyes]

She is a short coupled Irish sport, 16.1 ish, proper powerhouse, wide chest, kind but very worried eye. She was supposed to be 7 but her owner has had her for 4years I think she is 11 or 12 so have asked for her passport as I am having her flu booster done with mine next week all things allowing. She is lead mare in her field to and owner is scared of her so she gets scared.
I have just got back from the yard and she calls along with my others... which is so lovely and she now is bring a bit more trusting when j approach, it's not what I like to see but she leaps back, I like back but not a leap back.

Be interesting to see her lines. Behind the bit and running through the shoulder is the hardest to fix. I like the suggestion as much groundwork and some initial session help from a leader. If there has been trauma in her past, food might not help. It's not always the case that abuse or mishandling has occurred - some are born worried. Please keep us updated.

 

[soloequestrian]

Could you try a bitless bridle to help her get over her worry about the contact? You could keep the bit and reins for backup if it feels safer but also have another set of reins to the noseband or lunge cavesson? That way you could take a contact without it being on her mouth.

 

[Gingerwitch]

So hoped on this morn after preparing the top half of the school, poles and jump holders (plastic ones like a triangle).

I walked her to the school and used the squeeze and woah and stopped myself on the way to the school it was flipping cold minus 6 so I did expect a bit of busy ness. Took her for a walk on the ground on both reins, saying woah and a gentle squeeze on the outside rein.
I got on, she stood stock still, so she got a neck scratch and a polo and another neck and wither scratch. I did not gather my reins just went to say walk on and I had not even opened my mouth and she walked on. I immediately did a halt, no rein contact just back, seat, legs, lean back and woah.... it worked.
I then walked 2 steps and repeated, this went well on the right rein. Went on to left and she just walked slower and slower and slower but would not halt.
Tried the wall halt and I honestly thought she was going to try to walk through it, but we stopped.
She loved seeing the poles and jump wings and we just used them as bending poles.
10 mins I was happy, asked for halt we stopped dead. I got off and made a proper fuss of her.

Took her back for breakie and a massage, she loved it.
Then had to ride my others as they are staying in today as the ground is rock hard.
Must admit I found my others very relaxing, but I am going to call this little mare grub, as she is working her way into my heart.
Comments and suggestions gratefully received.

 

[canteron]

What a lockdown project!!! Just a thought could you teach her a few voice commands on the ground to help her understand what you want when ridden, although it seems as if you are making great progress anyway!

 

[Tarragon]

I think it will be so rewarding when you start to see some improvements! I bet she turns out to be a cracker

 

[Gingerwitch]

I think it will be so rewarding when you start to see some improvements! I bet she turns out to be a cracker

I know we will have good days and bad, but the tips coming off this thread are brilliant, the books assume you have some level of influence ie, slow your rise.....yearh, make the rhythm yours.... yep or do a one rein stop or ask nice then give an upward jab or the mouth. Some if this would work with others I am sure but grub would just be hysterical, she is worrying about making mistakes and worrying about what is next.
You can see her visibility shrink when she stands and is made a fuss of, it's like she is starting to realise that it's not go go go, its woah woah woah.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Could you try a bitless bridle to help her get over her worry about the contact? You could keep the bit and reins for backup if it feels safer but also have another set of reins to the noseband or lunge cavesson? That way you could take a contact without it being on her mouth.

I am trying this tonight or on tomorrow morning sessions. I only want another 5 mins good tonight but as she has been in all day she needs a leg stretch.

 

[LegOn]

You can see her visibility shrink when she stands and is made a fuss of, it's like she is starting to realise that it's not go go go, its woah woah woah.

Some of them need to mentally slow down alright - lovely to work with them and help their brain 'take its time' It will come right quicker and they will understand easier! Great job x

 

[Gingerwitch]

All - would you work her every day, weather dependant, if its icy and snow I will ride regardless as I don't want her on the Walker as this could undo what I am trying to do.
I am aiming for short and sweet, but work her first as if it goes wrong I dont want to leave it on a bad note or ruin it by having tension from me about time plus early morn there is no one else about in the school.
I

 

[Annagain]

All - would you work her every day, weather dependant, if its icy and snow I will ride regardless as I don't want her on the Walker as this could undo what I am trying to do.
I am aiming for short and sweet, but work her first as if it goes wrong I dont want to leave it on a bad note or ruin it by having tension from me about time plus early morn there is no one else about in the school.
I

If the long term aim is for her owner to ride her and she is in a position to ride every day then I would. If she can't ride every day, I'd be a bit wary of setting her up to need to do something every day as she sounds like the sort who might get a bit reliant on a routine to prevent worrying. I try not to let Charlie go more than 3 days without doing something (although he has gone up to a week when he lost a shoe and farrier was away) but I also don't ride him every day as he's only 6 and I don't want a 12 year old in a few years time who needs to be ridden every day to stay sane, Having said that, if she's not getting much turnout, she needs to do something. C gets at least 12 hours a day every day so exercise isn't essential.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think in the worst weather I would do groundwork to reinforce your ridden expectations, for safety reasons and because you probably have more influence from the ground at this stage and it will be easier to finish on a good note, when you are ready.

 

[Gingerwitch]

If the long term aim is for her owner to ride her and she is in a position to ride every day then I would. If she can't ride every day, I'd be a bit wary of setting her up to need to do something every day as she sounds like the sort who might get a bit reliant on a routine to prevent worrying. I try not to let Charlie go more than 3 days without doing something (although he has gone up to a week when he lost a shoe and farrier was away) but I also don't ride him every day as he's only 6 and I don't want a 12 year old in a few years time who needs to be ridden every day to stay sane, Having said that, if she's not getting much turnout, she needs to do something. C gets at least 12 hours a day every day so exercise isn't essential.

The yard rarely keeps in, only when its dangerous to horse or handler legs. You can turn your own out any time but if the full liveries which the owner treats as her own dont go out then there are no services I.e turnout or bring in, they will feed and hay.
So hopefully it will only a few days til it's safe to go out.
I am getting too attached to grub, I am already thinking of what happens if I do all this work and she gets sold on...... arghhhhh head v heart....
Her owner is getting on great with my free horse I wonder if a swop would be ethical or do I ask to buy grub and put Colin on long term loan with her owner.....

 

[Tarragon]

Can we have some pictures?

 

[Bernster]

Slightly off point but am currently lwvtb a mini project and have to say it’s a long game and requires a lot of time and effort but it’s so satisaying ! Mines more established that yours OP but i can already tell this is going to improve my riding no end.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Can we have some pictures?

I will see what I can do x

 

[Annagain]

The yard rarely keeps in, only when its dangerous to horse or handler legs. You can turn your own out any time but if the full liveries which the owner treats as her own dont go out then there are no services I.e turnout or bring in, they will feed and hay.
So hopefully it will only a few days til it's safe to go out.
I am getting too attached to grub, I am already thinking of what happens if I do all this work and she gets sold on...... arghhhhh head v heart....
Her owner is getting on great with my free horse I wonder if a swop would be ethical or do I ask to buy grub and put Colin on long term loan with her owner.....

It sounds like you have a good relationship with her owner so it should be fairly easy to have that conversation.

A swap sounds like it could be ideal - even if it's a loan swap. Making it more permanent might be more tricky as they could well have differing values (but a top up cash payment could sort that) or one might fail a vetting (if you go for one) and then what happens? I supposed if one failed, you could do a one way sale and a loan as you mentioned above.

 

[brighteyes]

The yard is a massive part of why progress will (hopefully) be smooth and relatively 'fast'. Obviously it depends on her and her relationship with you but the facilities and ethos are very positive! All I can think of is how lucky everyone connected with this post is!

I'd do an occasional short-session day of 'things we have down and find fun' unstructured in terms of progression but relatively 'linked' then get off and give a treat - whatever she likes most.

 

[Gingerwitch]

The yard is a massive part of why progress will (hopefully) be smooth and relatively 'fast'. Obviously it depends on her and her relationship with you but the facilities and ethos are very positive! All I can think of is how lucky everyone connected with this post is!

I'd do an occasional short-session day of 'things we have down and find fun' unstructured in terms of progression but relatively 'linked' then get off and give a treat - whatever she likes most.

Ears is the new thing..... she obviously talks to my others and whilst a bit wary she did drop her head for a behind the ear scratch when I took the tack off.... my other mare presents her ears or her bum, my Tb is ears and willy Urgh..... colin is just his neck and the big girl is anywhere but loves her udders being wiped.
I must sound like a right weirdo.... other half makes me wash my hands 3 times before I do his tea lol x