Jackhammer trot arghhhhh
- Thread starter Gingerwitch
- Start date
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
So...... went to school and it was snowing and very very icy. She slipped on the way which meant her head was on high alert, I put poles out and a drum and she just stood and watched what I was doing (I had put her reins under her stirrups). I walked over and she lowered her head and let out a big blow. Went to mount block and she was stuck still, she was fussed and had a mint and fussed again. I though about walking and picked up reins but they were like washing lines.....she did not move. I said walk on, she did, I halted. We walked we halted we had a stand and a scratch and a treat. On to left rein and it got silly again, so back to 1 step, stop, 2 steps stop, 3 steps - how far do you learn back..... and am sure I pulled a muscle in my left thigh from squeezing lol, but we stopped. Managed to get up to 3 steps at the right pace. I got off and fussed her.
Can I go to slow at this stage ? I am thinking not, it feels like she is mentally tired and is working a lot of stuff out. I moved the poles outside and as I opened the school doors the snow blew in and I dropped the poles and slipped let out a squeak.... and flailed my arms, well the working one lol, her head went up but she did not back away which I think is massive progress.
Can I go to slow at this stage ? I am thinking not, it feels like she is mentally tired and is working a lot of stuff out. I moved the poles outside and as I opened the school doors the snow blew in and I dropped the poles and slipped let out a squeak.... and flailed my arms, well the working one lol, her head went up but she did not back away which I think is massive progress.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
that sounds great! the blowing out is a great sign. it doesn't sound like you are going too slow at all, you are right that it is a huge mental change for them. a lot of horses rush out of stress, worry or to override the riders control. it's a huge mental switch for them to go 'oh this is ok'. I was the same with the mare I kept. I just kept praising her and keeping it very easy. it was slow at the start but then once stuff clicks yo progress much faster as the level of trust and communication in there.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Its 20 past 5 and its vile outside, it should be a turn over and snooze day, but project grub is working away on my brain.
I cannot thank you guys enough as I am totally out of my depth with this one.
The books, videos do not give half of this information out, like I said previously they assume you are a karl Hester and the horse can be easily influenced by your seat and was born knowing what a half halt is.
Had discussions with yard owner about a fair price for her.....and grubs owner is talking it over with her dad, but she is really happy with the suggestion..... colin will then go on permanent loan but to stay at current yard. So I am possibly hours away from being back to 5.... but only really 4 to pay for. So super excited and nervous lol. I pray it's a yes yo the offer
I cannot thank you guys enough as I am totally out of my depth with this one.
The books, videos do not give half of this information out, like I said previously they assume you are a karl Hester and the horse can be easily influenced by your seat and was born knowing what a half halt is.
Had discussions with yard owner about a fair price for her.....and grubs owner is talking it over with her dad, but she is really happy with the suggestion..... colin will then go on permanent loan but to stay at current yard. So I am possibly hours away from being back to 5.... but only really 4 to pay for. So super excited and nervous lol. I pray it's a yes yo the offer
Frano
Well-Known Member
Out of interest what sort of breed is she? How long have the owners had her? Was she driven in the past?
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Irish sport, owners had her for 4 years and she has basically been messed with by all sorts of instructors, but no consistent work, some have been kind, snd the one that try to tell her just made her more anxious and scatty. her owner has become petrified of her both on the ground and ridden. No idea if she has been driven, but did bolt when being long rained and was lost so flapping long lines scaring the be jesus out of her.
Tarragon
Well-Known Member
I had a bit of fun doing an on-line class last year where you had to start at halt, walk 12 steps, halt, walk 12 steps, trot 12 steps, walk 6 steps and then halt. I first thought it would be a doddle, then tried it and realised it was far harder in reality. I had a lot of fun working on it and found that it really, really made me tune in and concentrate and the pony had to be cued and alert. It was the accuracy that mattered here, every step was important. I found myself practising out hacking; I must have looked a bit indecisive!
The reason I mention it, is because perhaps it would be the sort of thing that would help your mare? Plus, it was fun and a challenge.
The reason I mention it, is because perhaps it would be the sort of thing that would help your mare? Plus, it was fun and a challenge.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Bless.... I dream of 12 steps in walk lol, but yes all suggestions most welcome.
I did some ground work today.....now when I stop and say woah at what point is it a good halt? 1 step and stop or should it be, Bam immediate?
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
I did this with my mare who rushed out of imbalance and lack of any schooling. Started with 10 steps of walk then halt, 9 steps of walk, halt etc etc down to as low as you could go. Then work back up. Then do it as 10 steps of walk, 10 steps of trot, 9 steps of walk, 9 trot etc down to as low as you could go. We are down to 1! It kept my mare's brain busy and also worked on my wishy washy natural style of schooling where if I asked for trot as long as I got it within a few strides I was happy but my instructor was not! We're now a lot more instant on our transitions.
Tarragon
Well-Known Member
I found that counting the trot steps the hardest. I almost had to close my eyes to get maximum feel! And 12 steps at trot is hardly anything (well, it is on my short strided 13hh pony!)
Mildlander
Well-Known Member
Similar to ownedbyacoonie an exercise that I've found helpful is the 5 second exercise. In that you make a transition every 5 seconds. It can be 5 secs walk then halt 5 secs then 5 secs walk or 5 secs walk then trot 5 secs, change of temp in trot, trot to canter then back but every 5 seconds. It really gets me concentrating on accuracy of transitions and my mare has to be listening to me. I do it with a mix of 20m circles and around the areana. I don't usually manage to be precisely on the 5 seconds but it gives me something to aim for!!
Jayzee
Well-Known Member
I don't have any useful input, but this sounds like really good progress so far, she sounds like her wants to please. Looking forward to hearing about her potentially becoming yours and some pictures!
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jaycee, owners are asking a bit too much money for her and on paper she is just not worth it. My heart is saying differently though, other half says we wont be going on holiday again this year so do what I feel, but totally torn. X
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Okay...... new issue she halts and then she is confused that its okay to walk forward but slower, so just stands still and I have to ask a couple of times to get her walking again which is the total reverse of where we started. Am I confusing her now or is this normal or am I doing something wrong.?
We still can't do more than 3 steps before we have to halt due to the speed and I have done some ground work with her but again I am not the best at this, I switched off from ground work after watching Linda p and the poor one eyed horse so I am a bit blinkered on this but have started a separate thread on maxwell and trt etc x
We still can't do more than 3 steps before we have to halt due to the speed and I have done some ground work with her but again I am not the best at this, I switched off from ground work after watching Linda p and the poor one eyed horse so I am a bit blinkered on this but have started a separate thread on maxwell and trt etc x
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
Or (in the case of my mare) she knows exactly what you want to do but she’s working out new ways of not doing it ?
I do find when starting from the beginning it can feel like 2 steps forward 3 steps back so I wouldn’t worry that you are doing anything wrong, might just take her a while to grasp exactly what it is you want. Basics like this seemed to take a long time when I was reschooling my mare but then once the basics are in place it’s a bit of an exponential increase in their schooling ability from there. I think it’s invaluable taking longer on the beginning stages and getting it right.
She sounds like a lovely mare and has landed on her feet with you!
I do find when starting from the beginning it can feel like 2 steps forward 3 steps back so I wouldn’t worry that you are doing anything wrong, might just take her a while to grasp exactly what it is you want. Basics like this seemed to take a long time when I was reschooling my mare but then once the basics are in place it’s a bit of an exponential increase in their schooling ability from there. I think it’s invaluable taking longer on the beginning stages and getting it right.
She sounds like a lovely mare and has landed on her feet with you!
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Rather than worrying about following a groundwork 'system', just show her what you want her to do when you ride her, while you are on the ground. Honestly there is no voodoo/magic in it, just think of it as a rehearsal for what you will do ridden. Use voice aids as well as other cues.
Merry neddy man
Well-Known Member
Asking and getting are 2 different things.
Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
Are you charging for the work you are putting in to her? If not you should or point out how much the schooling is worth. She might start to sense re value of horse, hopefully.
I think I would be soft enough to buy her anyway.
I think I would be soft enough to buy her anyway.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Lord no, I am no where the level that I would consider charging for lol. I can back horses if they have not been ruined, I can re train ex racers and I can improve most horses If the basics are already there. If I get issues like I did with my one mare then I get professional in to help me work on the issues. This one I am on my own with apart from ground help from the yard owner.
I am carrying working her, girls dad wants to see fie himself what the issue is with his daughter. He did not know she wasn't riding her and I certainly dont want to get in the middle of a family issue. I also know that unless she loans Colin I will have to decline anyway as I cannot afford 5 ans I still can't sell Colin as he was left in my care.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Okay, so ok closer to buying her, I wont pay what they want for her, so carrying on doing what I can for her.
Today we have temper tantrums... I will not stand, i will go forward at my pace (trot) or canter..... if I get asked to stand still I will go sideways, try to go forward, threaten to go upwards and then try backwards. When I stand and you relax I will lower my head and then when you think it's safe i will whack my head up and try to canter.... when you say walk i can't my front legs will but my back legs want to trot. And I will bubble up and be silly, then when none of this works and I have had to halt (wall) and do 3 steps and stand still I dont know what else to do so I just did it and the you got off !
Arghhhhhh mares.
Today we have temper tantrums... I will not stand, i will go forward at my pace (trot) or canter..... if I get asked to stand still I will go sideways, try to go forward, threaten to go upwards and then try backwards. When I stand and you relax I will lower my head and then when you think it's safe i will whack my head up and try to canter.... when you say walk i can't my front legs will but my back legs want to trot. And I will bubble up and be silly, then when none of this works and I have had to halt (wall) and do 3 steps and stand still I dont know what else to do so I just did it and the you got off !
Arghhhhhh mares.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I would have jumped off and done everything I was asking her to do from the ground until she settled. If her back legs still canter, all she will be able to do is go round you in a circle. Are you working her from the ground before you get on, every time? That is what I would do. Rehearse every move so that she full understands what is expected of her.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Thank you, yes I go through the exercises with her in hand. Today I has the two parallel poles you had suggested. We walked into them, we halted, I asked for her to stand and relax then asked for one step rein back by squeezing on the one rein, saying back and walking toward her. Immediately release as soon as she made an attempt to go back.
We did this a couple of times both reins. She then repeated the exercise under saddle and we then did the 5 steps halt, 4 steps halt, 3 steps halt on both reins. It is her left rein that she decided she would not stand on and we wriggled or tried to walk forward. So this could possibly be me ? Maybe I was not quick enough to let her know what she was doing was right ? Ie we want to just stand.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Without seeing you doing the exercises, I can't say what the problem is but perhaps you could ask for some 'eyes on the ground' to help you.
Having re-read your post, I wonder if it is just that you moved on more quickly than she could cope with. You rehearsed the work with the poles but maybe didn't rehearse the 5/4/3/ steps halt work. I think I would get 5 steps halt firmly established before refining down to 4/3. I wonder as well if she needs the physical visual cues, so that it might be worth putting markers out where you want her to halt (as a start, obviously you will work towards getting rid of markers).
Our first Appaloosa was a nightmare for schooling, she always wanted to do her own thing. We found that physical visual cues really helped her to understand what was wanted. We taught her to circle by putting poles out in a circle, because she loved poles. Also always having someone on the ground.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for the input. I will order some coloured x s, and or cones.
I have had permission to have an external trainer come on site to help me and the mare. Yard owner is really trying to help me with her, but she is too distracted currently to do school work any time when the yard is busy. So I am riding at 6.30 and 1830 when yard is quiet which is a bit early and late for others on the yard.
I have started to keep a separate journal as well where I am writing everything down too, more so so I can focus on any triggers I may be unaware giving her. Like I say I am just an amateur but so want to help this mare. Thanks once again
Lois Lame
Well-Known Member
"Legs without hands, hands without legs." That is the mantra I have heard.
I think the mare is confused by your aids when you are riding her.
I think the mare is confused by your aids when you are riding her.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Thanks Lois,
took both your and PaS tips into the school today, along with a total bridle change.
I showed her the cones and the parallel poles, and we did the halts, we did the rein back, we stood head down and relaxed we counted 5 steps and we halted and then we got on.
All went very well, her rein back is amazing and when i asked her to stand i kept my legs on until she stood then took them off and relaxed. Much improved. We did have a moment or two, but i just kept asking for the same and we eventually had a free walk on a long rein - her nose was on the floor and we had a halt in this position, at this i made a huge fuss and we finished for the day.
I have an instructor coming tomorrow night, and i am just looking at her bit.
took both your and PaS tips into the school today, along with a total bridle change.
I showed her the cones and the parallel poles, and we did the halts, we did the rein back, we stood head down and relaxed we counted 5 steps and we halted and then we got on.
All went very well, her rein back is amazing and when i asked her to stand i kept my legs on until she stood then took them off and relaxed. Much improved. We did have a moment or two, but i just kept asking for the same and we eventually had a free walk on a long rein - her nose was on the floor and we had a halt in this position, at this i made a huge fuss and we finished for the day.
I have an instructor coming tomorrow night, and i am just looking at her bit.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
my one used to have similar days and I had to mix it up a bit as she would just get bored if she did the same schooling exercises three days in a row. she seems to kind of hit a wall with slow concentration work, so she'd need the odd day to just have fun and let off steam. on those days I'd just loose school her and play over small jumps and grids. it seemed to help her get excess energy or tension out and then the next day she'd be calmer.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Another 5 mins lighter in a morning and i am hoping to get her out hacking in a morning and only school a couple of times in the week.
I am a bit reluctant to free school her as she fell over the other week on the lunge being a prat, although i might put up a jump lane this weekend.
I may also see if i can get my instructor up at the weekend and if we can long line her in the school for a bit, but i want someone at her head.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
yeah I wouldn't lunge, I'd just let her loose if you can. sometimes they just need to let off a bit of steam!