Jean Luc Cornill & Chazot ADD OPINIONS HERE,NOT MICHEN'S TREA

[tallyho!]

Please do not write as if I brought this up on Michens thread and made comparisons with Michens horse. I didn't.

I did not write as if you did. I know you didn't. I'm not sure why you feel you have to be so rude towards me. All I'm doing is trying to explain.

 

[tallyho!]

I haven't read this entire thread and I've not looked into this man in great detail (watched that one video and some other clips of him riding the same horse when it was rearing in slow motion). From the quote off this guy's website on the first page, I get the implication that this guy "researches" movement (also from the fact he's called this "science of motion" though, nothing else quoted suggests to me there's an iota of science involved)... So, since I'm being lazy, does this guy actually do any research/have peer-reviewed papers out? Or are we talking pretend-science gibberish?

I've no idea I find it all so hard to read and follow! I get the general gist of it but that's it. Some of it resonates with Klimke and Hauschmann but different words are used. I find his writing quite rude sometimes actually but I try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater...

 

[ycbm]

I did not write . I know you didn't. I'm not sure why you feel you have to be so rude towards me. All I'm doing is trying to explain.

I'm sorry you felt I was being rude, but you did say 'there was no relevance as you can't prove Michen's horse was the same' and readers have no way of knowing that you didn't mean me.

I don't dislike you, Tallyho, but I really dislike trainers who big themselves up by writing in a way that ordinary people can't understand, and this guy is an absolute master at it. A good trainer should be able to explain things so that ordinary people should be able to understand him, imo.

I accept that I may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but there are plenty of other babies out there who I can understand and who don't want me to pay fifty dollars to watch him ride a horse I'd, rather not see ridden. Yes, I am fixated on how much money this guy wants He strikes me very much as being in the Parelli mould

I knew there was something not right about his explanation about stretching the horse's neck, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So thanks to the people who pointed out that grazing is sixteen hours out of twenty four in a normal horse life I felt a right fool when I read that

 

[tallyho!]

I'm sorry you felt I was being rude, but you did say 'there was no relevance as you can't prove Michen's horse was the same' and readers have no way of knowing that you didn't mean me.

Grammar is not my strongest point I admit! I freely use "you" as in "one" or to mean "they, their, that person, anyone"... a point worth noting thank you.

 

[ester]

I haven't read this entire thread and I've not looked into this man in great detail (watched that one video and some other clips of him riding the same horse when it was rearing in slow motion). From the quote off this guy's website on the first page, I get the implication that this guy "researches" movement (also from the fact he's called this "science of motion" though, nothing else quoted suggests to me there's an iota of science involved)... So, since I'm being lazy, does this guy actually do any research/have peer-reviewed papers out? Or are we talking pretend-science gibberish?

The latter I think write in a way that confuses enough that they think it is science? With just a couple of references from others studies (none from him, not proper ones anyway) to show you've read some stuff.

 

[tallyho!]

I think he means well and if you can get past the first paragraph of his scientific teachings with talk of forces and stuff without going cross eyed... I salute you.

His utmost focus is the well being of horses and is kind with it. His motto I've seen quoted is something like 'The hand is not to control the horse but to feel his thoughts' - thats approximate by the way not a direct quote. I should probably google the right one but it's the essence I'm trying to get across.

Giberrish or not, I think the world needs kind people and I cannot see anything he does is actually cruel... unless I'm proven otherwise. He uses many scientific quotes and interprets it his way. It's not a bad way but I'm not qualified to say any more than that. He promotes lightness and anyone who does that gets my vote, bonkers or not.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think he means well and if you can get past the first paragraph of his scientific teachings with talk of forces and stuff without going cross eyed... I salute you.

His utmost focus is the well being of horses and is kind with it. His motto I've seen quoted is something like 'The hand is not to control the horse but to feel his thoughts' - thats approximate by the way not a direct quote. I should probably google the right one but it's the essence I'm trying to get across.

Giberrish or not, I think the world needs kind people and I cannot see anything he does is actually cruel... unless I'm proven otherwise. He uses many scientific quotes and interprets it his way. It's not a bad way but I'm not qualified to say any more than that. He promotes lightness and anyone who does that gets my vote, bonkers or not.

It's all about perception .
I would be ashamed to ride a horse going as the grey in the rearing clip was .

 

[npage123]

I think he means well and if you can get past the first paragraph of his scientific teachings with talk of forces and stuff without going cross eyed... I salute you.

His utmost focus is the well being of horses and is kind with it. His motto I've seen quoted is something like 'The hand is not to control the horse but to feel his thoughts' - thats approximate by the way not a direct quote. I should probably google the right one but it's the essence I'm trying to get across.

Giberrish or not, I think the world needs kind people and I cannot see anything he does is actually cruel... unless I'm proven otherwise. He uses many scientific quotes and interprets it his way. It's not a bad way but I'm not qualified to say any more than that. He promotes lightness and anyone who does that gets my vote, bonkers or not.

Thank you for this Tallyho!

I really didn't expect this tread (and the previous one) to turn out like this, becoming almost a mockery of Jean Luc Cornill. Like you, I could see his kindness and pure intentions with the great lengths he's going through to help horses. TBH I'm feeling really sick with regret for having posted links/videos of this trainer. Some people on the forum are so quick to judge, even before they've got their facts right, and are not inclined to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. I wish this forum could have been fairer in that respect. I wish Jean Luc Cornill could have given his side of the story.

 

[YasandCrystal]

OP for what it's worth I think highly of Jean Luc Cornille. I have never seen any cruelty or force in any of his in hand or ridden work. He will take the time to reply if you ask a question. His 'science' speech is often beyond me however his passion, love of horses and good intent must be clearly visible to all. He has a great classical seat and I do not for one minute believe he would cause any horse harm. Horses needing rehab often look lame when they are made to use themselves differently. My own WB has gone through this, but he would tell me if he was in pain as I believe Chazot would to Jean Luc. He doesn't bute up horses to ride them he rehabilitates so they use themselves correctly and therefore offers them a comfortable life. Straightness work is just amazing.
So he is making some money from his teachings, why not. I pay good money to watch Charles de Kunffy teaching/lecture as I have done Gerd Hershmann. I would love to attend a klaus Hempfling clinic but he's never close enough. Without these great classical names passing on their knowledge so much would be lost.

 

[tallyho!]

It's all about perception .
I would be ashamed to ride a horse going as the grey in the rearing clip was .

GS, in that particular clip, the horse was not going forward in any shape or form. All the rider was doing was trying to get some calmness from such a tense horse... later you see in another clip he has calmed down and is fine.

What would you do? I'd be interested to hear what your prescription would be in this case, a horse who was given the all clear by the vet and physio for him to rehabilitate?

 

[tallyho!]

OP for what it's worth I think highly of Jean Luc Cornille. I have never seen any cruelty or force in any of his in hand or ridden work. He will take the time to reply if you ask a question. His 'science' speech is often beyond me however his passion, love of horses and good intent must be clearly visible to all. He has a great classical seat and I do not for one minute believe he would cause any horse harm. Horses needing rehab often look lame when they are made to use themselves differently. My own WB has gone through this, but he would tell me if he was in pain as I believe Chazot would to Jean Luc. He doesn't bute up horses to ride them he rehabilitates so they use themselves correctly and therefore offers them a comfortable life. Straightness work is just amazing.
So he is making some money from his teachings, why not. I pay good money to watch Charles de Kunffy teaching/lecture as I have done Gerd Hershmann. I would love to attend a klaus Hempfling clinic but he's never close enough. Without these great classical names passing on their knowledge so much would be lost.

Absolutely! Each one has so much to give and do it in their own way. It's up to us to interpret and make it our aim to be light and kind. I agree about straightness training and hope to be able to do some with my mare soon. She is one that needs to learn to use her body better and not be so hot headed.

 

[Donkey66]

I find it odd that people can't just accept that other riders do things differently. JL is calm and thoughtful and is obviously trying to help the horse who is shuffling in trot. Watched a few more videos and saw he gets results - what's not to like?

 

[Goldenstar]

GS, in that particular clip, the horse was not going forward in any shape or form. All the rider was doing was trying to get some calmness from such a tense horse... later you see in another clip he has calmed down and is fine.

What would you do? I'd be interested to hear what your prescription would be in this case, a horse who was given the all clear by the vet and physio for him to rehabilitate?[

Lots and I mean lots of work stepping over poles and raised poles and small logs become progressively more difficult ,teaching the horse to leg yield over three planks in a row ( Not a line ) walking towards being able to do this with one end of each plank raised in long reins and walk lunging ( where I walk the horse in lunging kit about ten feet from it but not going round in circles if that makes sense )
Hours spent in my woods being walked over logs on the ground up and down banks .
Being lead from another horse over rough hills .
Work ridden working toward the long and low position but never putting the horse in a position so that it could not keep balance .
The horse living in a quiet field with calm friends so it's stretching down grazing and the company of others to ease it's mind but coming into the stable for a period daily .
Daily passive stretching on a programme from the physio .
Fortnightly physio assessment at first .
Vet monthly at first .
That's all about monitoring changes.
Saddle fitter as necessary my horse change shape a lot and fast on this programme so I have to really on top of the saddle fit.
I think horses who have been through a lot often find the 'equine touch ' people very helpful not sure why just my observation it settles their mind and it's pleasurable which is great if the vets have been doing stuff to them .
The yard needs to be a calm environment where the horses see others being worked in a calm and happy way .
One of my box windows opens on to my school I'll often put a horse that has bad associations with work in that stable I like them to watch that nothing terrible happens .
I often do the in hand pole work with another horse doing the same at first so the horse sees a calm mentor doing what he's being asked .
That would be my start ,six perhaps eight weeks of that and reassess and make the next plan .

 

[npage123]

GS, in that particular clip, the horse was not going forward in any shape or form. All the rider was doing was trying to get some calmness from such a tense horse... later you see in another clip he has calmed down and is fine.

What would you do? I'd be interested to hear what your prescription would be in this case, a horse who was given the all clear by the vet and physio for him to rehabilitate?[

Lots and I mean lots of work stepping over poles and raised poles and small logs become progressively more difficult ,teaching the horse to leg yield over three planks in a row ( Not a line ) walking towards being able to do this with one end of each plank raised in long reins and walk lunging ( where I walk the horse in lunging kit about ten feet from it but not going round in circles if that makes sense )
Hours spent in my woods being walked over logs on the ground up and down banks .
Being lead from another horse over rough hills .
Work ridden working toward the long and low position but never putting the horse in a position so that it could not keep balance .
The horse living in a quiet field with calm friends so it's stretching down grazing and the company of others to ease it's mind but coming into the stable for a period daily .
Daily passive stretching on a programme from the physio .
Fortnightly physio assessment at first .
Vet monthly at first .
That's all about monitoring changes.
Saddle fitter as necessary my horse change shape a lot and fast on this programme so I have to really on top of the saddle fit.
I think horses who have been through a lot often find the 'equine touch ' people very helpful not sure why just my observation it settles their mind and it's pleasurable which is great if the vets have been doing stuff to them .
The yard needs to be a calm environment where the horses see others being worked in a calm and happy way .
One of my box windows opens on to my school I'll often put a horse that has bad associations with work in that stable I like them to watch that nothing terrible happens .
I often do the in hand pole work with another horse doing the same at first so the horse sees a calm mentor doing what he's being asked .
That would be my start ,six perhaps eight weeks of that and reassess and make the next plan .

Sounds like a good programme, as if you know what you're doing.
Just wanted to say: because the short clips of video's on youtube are only that, short video's - we only get a small glimpse of his whole however long period of rehabilitation programmes.. You may even find that plenty of the practices hat you use, are also possibly also used by JLC, if the medical state of the horse allows such movements of course Know know? But it will be very time-consuming to post his training methods from start to finish online.

 

[tallyho!]

GS, in that particular clip, the horse was not going forward in any shape or form. All the rider was doing was trying to get some calmness from such a tense horse... later you see in another clip he has calmed down and is fine.

What would you do? I'd be interested to hear what your prescription would be in this case, a horse who was given the all clear by the vet and physio for him to rehabilitate?[

Lots and I mean lots of work stepping over poles and raised poles and small logs become progressively more difficult ,teaching the horse to leg yield over three planks in a row ( Not a line ) walking towards being able to do this with one end of each plank raised in long reins and walk lunging ( where I walk the horse in lunging kit about ten feet from it but not going round in circles if that makes sense )
Hours spent in my woods being walked over logs on the ground up and down banks .
Being lead from another horse over rough hills .
Work ridden working toward the long and low position but never putting the horse in a position so that it could not keep balance .
The horse living in a quiet field with calm friends so it's stretching down grazing and the company of others to ease it's mind but coming into the stable for a period daily .
Daily passive stretching on a programme from the physio .
Fortnightly physio assessment at first .
Vet monthly at first .
That's all about monitoring changes.
Saddle fitter as necessary my horse change shape a lot and fast on this programme so I have to really on top of the saddle fit.
I think horses who have been through a lot often find the 'equine touch ' people very helpful not sure why just my observation it settles their mind and it's pleasurable which is great if the vets have been doing stuff to them .
The yard needs to be a calm environment where the horses see others being worked in a calm and happy way .
One of my box windows opens on to my school I'll often put a horse that has bad associations with work in that stable I like them to watch that nothing terrible happens .
I often do the in hand pole work with another horse doing the same at first so the horse sees a calm mentor doing what he's being asked .
That would be my start ,six perhaps eight weeks of that and reassess and make the next plan .

Sounds like just what I'm doing with my mare... very sensible. With a sensible horse.

I hope it would work with such a troubled horse as poor Chazot. Who reared for no perceptible reason other than he thought he was going to beaten just for being himself. I could never hope to achieve all of the above with a horse such as that.

There is nothing wrong with Chazot. He is mentally scarred. Not because he was abused... because something somewhere made him *think* humans were all about beating him up. His whole life was spent defending himself. And so, he developed other issues.

He turned out to be an absolutely lovely horse. I cried when I read his full story. I could never do what you lined up above for him. He would never do it......... he would have had to trust me first and he didn;t trust anyone sadly until JLC worked with him.

 

[tallyho!]

Also I should add that he had been to many other "professionals" before JLC.

And, I do not doubt your professionalism GS, I just wonder if Chazot was a one off... which many thought he was and was worth euthanasing.

 

[paddy555]

GS, in that particular clip, the horse was not going forward in any shape or form. All the rider was doing was trying to get some calmness from such a tense horse... later you see in another clip he has calmed down and is fine.

What would you do? I'd be interested to hear what your prescription would be in this case, a horse who was given the all clear by the vet and physio for him to rehabilitate?[

Lots and I mean lots of work stepping over poles and raised poles and small logs become progressively more difficult ,teaching the horse to leg yield over three planks in a row ( Not a line ) walking towards being able to do this with one end of each plank raised in long reins and walk lunging ( where I walk the horse in lunging kit about ten feet from it but not going round in circles if that makes sense )
Hours spent in my woods being walked over logs on the ground up and down banks .
Being lead from another horse over rough hills .
Work ridden working toward the long and low position but never putting the horse in a position so that it could not keep balance .
The horse living in a quiet field with calm friends so it's stretching down grazing and the company of others to ease it's mind but coming into the stable for a period daily .
Daily passive stretching on a programme from the physio .
Fortnightly physio assessment at first .
Vet monthly at first .
That's all about monitoring changes.
Saddle fitter as necessary my horse change shape a lot and fast on this programme so I have to really on top of the saddle fit.
I think horses who have been through a lot often find the 'equine touch ' people very helpful not sure why just my observation it settles their mind and it's pleasurable which is great if the vets have been doing stuff to them .
The yard needs to be a calm environment where the horses see others being worked in a calm and happy way .
One of my box windows opens on to my school I'll often put a horse that has bad associations with work in that stable I like them to watch that nothing terrible happens .
I often do the in hand pole work with another horse doing the same at first so the horse sees a calm mentor doing what he's being asked .
That would be my start ,six perhaps eight weeks of that and reassess and make the next plan .

what happens then though? At some stage someone will have to get on the horse, lets say it's similar to Chazot as we know what he was like. However many poles it walks over, banks it walks up and down a and nice living conditions it has someone will have to get on. When they get on it will more than likely stand vertical. The memory of either the pain or habit of rearing will still be there. It will have to be faced. JLC got on and faced it, with or without a hat. I doubt many would feel able to do that.

Having done a lot of reading of his site (but not enough yet to understand all the technicalities) then as I understand it Chazot was in a racing barn, regarded it as hellish (their words) was not kindly treated and was unsuitable as a horse physically for racing. I think he was made to run in the middle when in fact he should have run differently. Anyway from what I understand he stood up and the jockey came off. He got beaten. He stood up again, got beaten more and learnt to really stand up and I believe wave his front legs. The standing up appears to have been partly pain but partly mental aggression etc due to his treatment.

JLC worked out that he had a muscle problem in his back which caused the pain part. Due to RER. The horse was also diagnosed with stomach ulcers which were treated. He goes into endless descriptions as to how he worked the horse (in hand at the side of him) to improve the way his body worked to resolve his difficulties.


I think it would be wrong to believe this bears no resemblance to Michen's horse. It may well bear a great deal of resemblance especially the stress part which I wonder if this is the key to the rearing.

I have learnt a lot and there were a couple of points that I found that made me seriously believe it was well worth reading after I found similar problems and causes with one of my own.

 

[npage123]

Thanks for the info paddy555 - the more I learn about JLC, the more I like him

 

[Goldenstar]

What happens next ?if the horse is still sound you start to train it to be ridden .
Be clear I am not saying I think I could have trained that horse I was asked what would I do that's what I have posted very damaged horses do often learn to trust people it's a failure in my eyes if they learn only to trust one person but it's understandable that it happens .
I would have to write a book to post you what might come next.
I don't think that you can say no one else could have trained that horse the world is full of talented ethical trainers doing things in lots of different ways .

 

[tallyho!]

What happens next ?if the horse is still sound you start to train it to be ridden .
Be clear I am not saying I think I could have trained that horse I was asked what would I do that's what I have posted very damaged horses do often learn to trust people it's a failure in my eyes if they learn only to trust one person but it's understandable that it happens .
I would have to write a book to post you what might come next.
I don't think that you can say no one else could have trained that horse the world is full of talented ethical trainers doing things in lots of different ways .

Quite and he was one person who took the horse on at the time. Chazot gave rides to many in the end as you may have read but is now semi-retired but does in hand demos according to the site along with a few other horses. JLC is in his 70's now I think so write more than he teaches...

I'm very much open to his ideas. After all he was a Le Cadre Noir graduate and helped to train two Olympic teams, so eight years worth of international eventing right there. He follows the classical school of training which by the sounds of it, you do too GS so I am surprised how against him you are. I would have thought he would have been right up your street... apart from the sciencey stuff which few so far can properly decipher. I wonder if you tried, as I have, you may find a connection somewhere.

 

[tristar]

I`ve just watched a few of his methods on you tube, he does not use spurs, side reins and lunges exactly like I do, and kisses his horse when it is lying down, so to some extent he is a man after my own heart, I like his laid back confidence, he doesn't rush at the horse, he gives things time to happen.

 

[npage123]

I`ve just watched a few of his methods on you tube, he does not use spurs, side reins and lunges exactly like I do, and kisses his horse when it is lying down, so to some extent he is a man after my own heart, I like his laid back confidence, he doesn't rush at the horse, he gives things time to happen.

Aw that's really lovely

 

[paddy555]

I read a bit more about Chazot and JLC's methods. Difficult to find the whole story quickly as it is in so many different places. The original video posted looked as if he cruelly got on the horse which was in pain.
I did find that after purchasing the horse they gave it a year's sabatical just looking after it so that it could get over it's problems before starting work. The video in isolation seems misleading and it appears that a lot of work and training went into getting Chazot to the stage of attempting to ride again. He describes his set up, stabling, handling etc and it seems to be very similar to what GS suggested in her post about how she would deal with this sort of horse.

.

 

[tallyho!]

Which is why I'm surprised she took umbrage to the video. Not like GS to dismiss classical ways.

 

[Fun Times]

The clip that I enjoyed watching was him walking Chazot out in hand. It was headed something like "chazot's first time out of the barn" or similar so I guessed it was at a point during or after box rest. The horse was hopping (the sort of hoppimg that some rather more dramatic horse people would term broncing) about next to the guy and you could tell that if he had the opportunity he would properly explode and boil over. JLC dealt with him very calmly and without any faff. He let him get on with being a fresh horse without getting flappy about it. I rather admired the way he dealt with the horse in that clip.

 

[Goldenstar]

Which is why I'm surprised she took umbrage to the video. Not like GS to dismiss classical ways.

I did not take umbrage at the video I did took no personal offence at the video what so ever .
I dislike intensly seeing a horse ridden like that creeping about ,not 'through 'no forwardness .
The manta I grew up on was you ride your forward and you keep it straight neither where going on in that video .
Of all the attributes a horse has the most precious is it's forwardness .
I don't regard myself as being what I consider classically trained although some of the trainers who influenced me most when young certain had what would have been thought of then as classical training .
In those days I don't remember there being any distinction between the types of training you just learn from different people got lots of mentoring .
The trainer I work most with now has had training in Vienna but is very much in the modern dressage school.
But I am pretty disinterested in being in one camp or the other in fact that classical pure ,good and ethical and modern sports dressage bad and vice versa is just makes me laugh it's IMO just nonsensical.

 

[tristar]

have not watched all the clips but I see a man giving a horse a chance to feel its own body and talk to the handler or rider, a chance to learn that some men will meet the horse in no mans land and give it the opportunity to take confidence and let man become his respected partner.


I think he has got it just right, the horse is broken it not that it doesn't know how to be ridden, it learned to expect the worst from humans, he gave it the chance to break through to a new level one step at a time.

 

[tallyho!]

I did not take umbrage at the video I did took no personal offence at the video what so ever .
I dislike intensly seeing a horse ridden like that creeping about ,not 'through 'no forwardness .
The manta I grew up on was you ride your forward and you keep it straight neither where going on in that video .
Of all the attributes a horse has the most precious is it's forwardness .
I don't regard myself as being what I consider classically trained although some of the trainers who influenced me most when young certain had what would have been thought of then as classical training .
In those days I don't remember there being any distinction between the types of training you just learn from different people got lots of mentoring .
The trainer I work most with now has had training in Vienna but is very much in the modern dressage school.
But I am pretty disinterested in being in one camp or the other in fact that classical pure ,good and ethical and modern sports dressage bad and vice versa is just makes me laugh it's IMO just nonsensical.

Don't you think the "creeping about" was all he could get without the horse exploding though given his personality? Through and forward wasn't where he was at yet. I don't think that horse even knew what that meant. He either reared or went flat out on a racecourse.

p.s. when I say classical, I mean good old fashioned horsemanship, as in what they teach in the military, in the srs etc. which works with equine natural abilities and using feel, rather than force. Modern has become something else to a lot of people now, fixation on the head position rather than any fluidity and harmony. I think a distinction must be drawn or else we all risk the more cruel and short term gains of what we could call "modern" becoming the norm. Whilst I appreciate that there are people like you who are disinterested in any sort of camp, seeing that there is no necessity to distinguish the differences, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and it needs to be made. P Karl, G Hauschmann, S Loch et al are very outspoken with regard to the differences and so are some of the top people in FEI yet the rules are still disregarded and people still abuse.

 

[Goldenstar]

Don't you think the "creeping about" was all he could get without the horse exploding though given his personality? Through and forward wasn't where he was at yet. I don't think that horse even knew what that meant. He either reared or went flat out on a racecourse.

p.s. when I say classical, I mean good old fashioned horsemanship, as in what they teach in the military, in the srs etc. which works with equine natural abilities and using feel, rather than force. Modern has become something else to a lot of people now, fixation on the head position rather than any fluidity and harmony. I think a distinction must be drawn or else we all risk the more cruel and short term gains of what we could call "modern" becoming the norm. Whilst I appreciate that there are people like you who are disinterested in any sort of camp, seeing that there is no necessity to distinguish the differences, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and it needs to be made. P Karl, G Hauschmann, S Loch et al are very outspoken with regard to the differences and so are some of the top people in FEI yet the rules are still disregarded and people still abuse.

People who think that modern is about fixing the head position are just in my experiance wrong it's not what's it's about in any way shape or form .
I am not in any way interested in debating because if that your view of what 'modern 'training is about. I believe forwards is the first thing the horse learns , any one thinks that a horse not tracking up like the grey was should be ridden in any way except forwards and in a very free way is so far apart from what I do it's a pointless debate .
Ride your horse forwards and keep it straight that's the basis of training and that's not want I saw in that clip .

 

[tallyho!]

People who think that modern is about fixing the head position are just in my experiance wrong it's not what's it's about in any way shape or form .
I am not in any way interested in debating because if that your view of what 'modern 'training is about. I believe forwards is the first thing the horse learns , any one thinks that a horse not tracking up like the grey was should be ridden in any way except forwards and in a very free way is so far apart from what I do it's a pointless debate .
Ride your horse forwards and keep it straight that's the basis of training and that's not want I saw in that clip .

I respect your opinion.