Joint Supplements - April's Amateur Analysis

[_April_]

I've been doing a little bit of research into joint supplements and thought I'd share with you all.

No recommendations or anything but have worked out the quantities of each product required to provide the 'optimum recommended levels' and the subsequent price per day.


I've only done 4 of the most popular brands thus far - if anyone wants other brands done just let me know


Disclaimer - total amateur just trying to not be ripped off



THE RESEARCH

http://jarvm.com/articles/Vol4Iss2/Rodgers.pdf

Study by Dr M Rodgers

The daily dose should provide around 10g of Glucosamine, 4g Chondroitin, and 10g MSM (if included.)
Ideally split between 2 feeds.

Glucosamine and chondroitin are slow acting drugs - therefore repetitive oral dosing at regular intervals is recommended - every 12 hours.

Absortion rates appear to be low in glucosamine in the first instance - 5.9% after a single dose.
There have not been sustained oral dosing studies for horses though - in rats, dogs and humans glucosamine sulfate was found to have a 95% bioavailability.

Absortion rate for chondroitin is 22-30%.




NAF SUPERFLEX

Key Ingredients 13g std level:
Glucosamine HCl 5000mg - 5g
MSM 5000mg - 5g
Antioxidants 2210mg
l-glutamine 675mg
Chondroitin sulphate 13mg - 0.013g
HA 10mg

therefore one would need to feed crates to get the chondroitin level to 4g!

without this, to reach optimum level of Glocosamine and MSM would require 26g per day.

£25.89 for 800g -> 30 days = 86p per day
£44.61 for 1600g -> 61 days = 73p per day




CORTAFLEX

£16.93 -> 227gm -> 15 days = £1.13 per day
£31.33 -> 454gm -> 30 days = £1.04 per day
£50.79 -> 908g -> 60days = 84p per day
£169.21 -> 3600g -> 240days = 70p per day

15g per day.

All forms of Cortaflex contain very little ACTUAL glucosamine and chondroitin, instead, they contain the amino acids and aminosaccharides which are the building blocks of glucosamine and chondroitin... what they are made of. These much smaller molecules are easily absorbed from the intestine and then passed from the bloodstream into the cells in the joints.

Therefore cannot compare Cortaflex.



RIAFLEX COMPLETE

24g per day to give optimum level

10g glucosamine
10g msm
4g chondrotin


700g - £42.00 (inc P&P) - 30 day supply
= £1.40 per day



SUPPLEAZE GOLD

per 10g

glucosamine 5500mg (5.5g) x2 = 1100
msm 2460mg (2.46g) x 4 = 9.84g
chondrotin 2000mg (2g) x2 = 4g
HA 40mg (0.04g)

therefore to feed optimum levels of glucosamine and chondrotin, need to feed 20g per day.
This would not provide required levels of MSM.

600g - £45.95 (inc P&P)
30 days supply = £1.53 per day


NB Frequent 3 for 2 offers on website therefore;
1800g - £91.90

90 day supply = £1.02 per day


HOWEVER, supplementing Suppleaze gold level 1 with pure MSM would only require 5g MSM per day.

equine america pure MSM 454g £12.69 plus £3.99 postage = £16.68
surrey equestrian website

90 day supply = 19p per day


Therefore suppleaze gold plus EA pure MSM daily cost = £1.02 plus 19p = £1.21

 

[HollyB66]

Great analysis, I don't suppose you would like to take a look at Premier Flex HA? I use that with my horse.

http://www.equineanswers.co.uk/prodpage.asp?ProdID=4

 

[_April_]

Great analysis, I don't suppose you would like to take a look at Premier Flex HA? I use that with my horse.

http://www.equineanswers.co.uk/prodpage.asp?ProdID=4

Course


Can you give me some more info - the website gives me the levels of main ingredients at 'initial dose' - but doesn't actually say what the initial dose is so I can't do a price comparison.

If not I can always ring them and ask

 

[_April_]

Someone also asked me about feeding the pure ingredients

from Health food shops but as far as I can see it's no

cheaper doing this.


Holland and Barret max strength Glucosamine &

Chondroitin

Each tablet contains 750mg. Glucosamine and 600mg.

Chondroitin

14 tablets per day

60 tablets - £12.99 - 4 days - £3.24 per day

Generic from Ebay

ebay 500mg/400mg

20 per day. 120 is £8.95 - 6 days - £1.50 perday

 

[martlin]

how about mine?
http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/Flexadin.html
pricing is here:
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/horse-supplements-equistro-products-c-540_542
postage is free

ETS I am particularly interested in comparison of cost where other joint supplements are fed alongside Devil's Claw

 

[HollyB66]

Thanks April,

Feeding guideline for Premierflex HA from tub label:

Feed 3 heaped measures (50g) per day for the first 10 days providing 13,000mg Glucosamine HCL, 5,000mg Chondroitin, 7,500mg MSM and 300mg Hyaluronic Acid per day.

Thereafter feed 1 heaped measure per day as the optimum amount for long term maintenance. For minimum maintenance feed half a measure per day.

Individual requirements may vary and are best determined by observation.

 

[_April_]

I haven't looked at Devil's Claw at all yet. There are just so many! Here's Flexadin fed at the levels recommended by the research I found.



FLEXADIN

Content per 5g Scoop
Glucosamine HCl 99% pure 1800mg
Chondroitin Sulphate 95% pure 600mg

Therefore approx 6 scoops per day to get optimum levels = 30g

600g - £51.62 - 20 days = £2.58 per day
1050g - £53.38 - 36 days = £1.48 per day


NB - Does not contain MSM.

 

[_April_]

PREMIER FLEX HA

50g daily gives over the recommended allowance (13g Glucosamine, 5g Chondroitin.)

Therefore 40g daily gives 10.4g Glucosamine and 4g Chondroitin.
However only 6g of MSM so may want to supplement with 4g of pure MSM?


1kg - 1000g - 25 days - £39.99 = £1.60 per day
2kg - 2000g - 50 days - £74.95 = £1.50 per day


Additional MSM would be
equine america pure MSM 454g £12.69 plus £3.99 postage = £16.68
4g per day - 113 days = 14p per day.


Premier Flex plus Pure MSM = £1.64 per day

 

[Weezy]

Horse First My Joints please...

Contains per 50g dose
Glucosamine Sulphate 10,000mg
Vitamin C 5,000mg
Blended on a special base of Sepiolite and Liquorice

I pay £105 per 5kg

 

[_April_]

Horse First My Joints please...

Contains per 50g dose
Glucosamine Sulphate 10,000mg
Vitamin C 5,000mg
Blended on a special base of Sepiolite and Liquorice

I pay £105 per 5kg

I looked at the website and there's no info on whether or not it contains chondroitin or MSM so can't compare fully til I ring them and ask.

but at the moment, 50g gives the recommended 10g of Glucosamine so 5kg - 5000g - 100 days - £105 - £1.05 per day

Will be interesting to see what they say about the other 2 ingredients as that is a good price.

 

[Weezy]

Robert and Paddy are really nice, am sure they will tell you all you need to know - however reading the blurb it looks as tho there isn't anything else in there....yikes!

 

[HollyB66]

Thanks for the figures for Premierflex HA, so, am I right in saying that the maintenance costs are 50p per day?

As you only give one scoop per day after the first 10 days, however, this obviously reduces the 'active ingredients' - does this drop them down to a level that is too low to do any good?

 

[_April_]

Thanks for the figures for Premierflex HA, so, am I right in saying that the maintenance costs are 50p per day?

As you only give one scoop per day after the first 10 days, however, this obviously reduces the 'active ingredients' - does this drop them down to a level that is too low to do any good?

To feed the 'maintenance' level (3 scoops = 50g) means 1 scoop is 16.7g
which does indeed work out very cheap at 62p per day.


However, the reason I wanted to do this comparison is that I personally want to feed the daily amounts stated in the research by Dr Rodgers so the maintenance doses don't provide these levels for me.

Just my own preferences though - there may be other research out there I've not yet found. Perhaps the loading dose then the maintenance dose does work - I don't have enough knowledge!

 

[HollyB66]

I can't even say for sure if the loading followed by maintenance levels are effective, we started using Premierflex HA because my girl came up stiff one day. We were unclear whether it was due to too much circle work in her last lesson, being in for a day as the fields were too poached, damp weather, arthritis (she is 18yrs) or something else.

She is now better/improved - although does still click in walk, but we do avoid circle work and she is now out 24/7, also the weather is warmer.

See my post here regarding the clicking noises: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=368360

So, unfortunately, for me it is rather inconclusive - although we will keep up the maintenance dose - as it is probably not doing any harm.

I look forward to reading more of your analysis.

Thanks

 

[Spyda]

Great post! I've a 16.3, 3 year old filly that's going to require joint supplements for life so I'm
very interested in these analyses.

I've been feeding mine Equimins Flexijoint Cartilage Supplement for the past 2 years - she's presently having 25g/day because she's a big girl.

http://www.equimins.co.uk/equimins_flexijoint_cartilage_supplement.htm

If you have time could you do mine? Many thanks

 

[Marilyn]

What about Equimins Flexijoint?

 

[MissSBird]

This is a super post! *scurries away to look at her tub of cosequin*

 

[ihatework]

Good post and I agree it's a minefield.

Other things to consider:
Source of ingredients
Purity of ingredients
QC steps taken during manufacturing process
Other available literature that discusses molecular size, addition of HA etcs
Plant based extracts, e.g. devils claw

 

[chestnut cob]

My horse has Fortius JointFX which, according to my vet, contains the highest level of bioavailable ingredients of all of the joint supplements. He did basically what you did April, sat down and worked out how much of everything is in all supplements, with JointFX coming out on top.

He doesn't rate Cortaflex at all, said you may as well just feed your horse sugar for all the good it does, and snorted with laughter when I asked about feeding Suppleaze Gold!

 

[teddyt]

Chondroitin is where the expense comes in, it is much more expensive than glucosamine. So if its not providing the recomended dose you might as well just feed a glucosamine supplement as you are wasting your money feeding less than the recomended dose.

You also have to compare the source of glucosamine. glucosamine HCL is purer and more is available following digestion than glucosamine sulphate. Most supplements use the sul[phate because its cheaper but it wont provide as much of the nutrient as the HCL, gram for gram.

As for the loading dose, maintenance dose, etc. The horse needs the levels stated by the OP as a maintenance level, so again if your supplement gives less than this as their maintenance level then you are wasting your money!

Beware the products that do lots of advertising- thats a large part of the cost of your supplement- not the actual benefit to your horse!

 

[NeedNewHorse]

Thanks for the information. Very interesting OP.

I have not read the article, but I will do in a moment (am at work!) BUT.. What I found rather a minefield was the use of MSN. Now, I know the vet related reports have been done on synequin and cosequin etc Now this just means that these companies had stacks of money to be able to fund these reports, whereas the smaller companies couldn't so I am not discounting them on this basis. But neither of those two (which are supposedly proven to work) have MSN in? Yet most of the others do. If they are using those two proven supplemets as their basis, what's the use of MSN I know it's proven (with people) to help hugely with arthritis.

Now, from what minute information I know of this, what confused me was MSN acting as an anti inflammatory, which I wouldn't want if you know what I mean - if it did act like that, whereas somewhere else (cannot remember) said it didn't act as an anti imflammatory but allowed the building blocks of repair to happen instead (or something!)

Does any of that make sense, or can anyone help offer some advice, as I have read somewhere (someone said) they would not use MSN in a joint supplement, yet they are most.

x

 

[mrjreakes]

This is the best post i have read on here! But please can we do this for Cosequin?! And to summerise... which is the best supplement?!! (My requirments are for stiff from old tendon and ligament injury, but works through it quite quickly)
Thank youx

 

[Chestnuttymare]

What a brilliant thread.
Have you looked at Top spec 10:10
I use the senior feed balancer as recommended by the rep as it has the full joint supplement in it.
Would you mind having a look at it for me if you have a min. thanks. It is for a 16.2 450g tb

 

[criso]

I've been feeding Maxaflex

It's difficult to compare as it uses Green Lipped mussel which is supposed to be a natural source of Chondroitin

They recommend a single scoop per day which provides

Green Lipped Mussel – 1000mg
Glucosamine – 6000mg
MSM – 6000mg
HA – 15mg
L-Glutamine – 1000mg

but I feed at a generous 1 1/2 scoops to take me up to the correct levels of msm and glucosamine. Not sure what the recommendations for HA or L-glutamine are??

 

[SirenaXVI]

Interestng post.

Incidentally, you feed Glucosamine for bone and MSM for soft tissue

Just to throw a spanner in the works, a lot of equine nutritionists believe that it is a waste of time to feed Chondroitin, horses, being herbivores, cannot absorb the molecule as it is too big, however, there are other nutritionists who would argue that.

 

[letrec_fan]

Do you think Horslyx Mobility would count as a 'supplement'? I have just looked and it includes 'high levels' of Glucosamine HCI and MSM but no Chronditon.

 

[Cocoa]

Hi all, just like to say fabulous thread as very few people realise the amount of Gluc/Chond required to have a positive effect and therefore many people are feeding below the recommended therapeutic amount and throwing money away which is very unfair. I studied joint supplements in one of my course work pieces at Uni and found it a really fascinating subject.

Unfortunately, unlike human neutraceuticals equine/animal products are not subject to the same stringent labelling requirements and testing, so trusting that what it says on the label with regards to amount of active ingredient in each dose is quite difficult as it may not actually be true.

 

[_April_]

Great post! I've a 16.3, 3 year old filly that's going to require joint supplements for life so I'm
very interested in these analyses.

I've been feeding mine Equimins Flexijoint Cartilage Supplement for the past 2 years - she's presently having 25g/day because she's a big girl.

http://www.equimins.co.uk/equimins_flexijoint_cartilage_supplement.htm

If you have time could you do mine? Many thanks

I haven't been on here for ages sorry. Am so glad people are finding this useful - I guess every little helps, even from an amateur like me


OK so:


Equimins Flexijoint

In 10g - 2g of chondroitin, 2g of glucosamine and 2g of MSM. Therefore need to feed 50g per day for required dose.

600g tub - £24.50 = 12 days = £2.04 per day

bulk buying: 10kg - £313.00 = 10000g = 200 days = £1.57 per day

 

[_April_]

This is the best post i have read on here! But please can we do this for Cosequin?! And to summerise... which is the best supplement?!! (My requirments are for stiff from old tendon and ligament injury, but works through it quite quickly)
Thank youx

I have no recommendations to make really as I only looked at the levels of glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM versus the price. It's apparent throughout this thread though which supplements do NOT provide the required levels without costing a fortune.


Ok Cosequin:

I took the info from this website

http://nutramaxlabs.com/Vet/Products/Cosequin-equine-joint-supplements.aspx


There seem to be different types of Cosequin. Which one do you use?

Also I have been all over the website and I can't for the life of me find out any information about the actual levels contained in a dose.
Plus the consumer brochure just refers to 'scoops' not the actual grams. This stops me working out the cost per day, cunning eh!




This is all I can find:

Cosequin Optimized provides 14,400 mg of glucosamine hydrochloride (based on 2 scoops loading administration) vs. original Cosequin’s 10,800 mg (based on 6 scoops loading administration)

so very vague.

 

[_April_]

Cosequin Optimized with MSM for horses contains 10,000 mg of MSM (2 scoops).

I need to find out what a 'scoop' actually measures out when feeding Cosequin Optimized.