_April_
Well-Known Member
The Topspec site is also very vague with no detailed analysis published. I'll be a pest and email them for you lol xx
Joint Supplements - April's Amateur Analysis
- Thread starter _April_
- Start date
The Topspec site is also very vague with no detailed analysis published. I'll be a pest and email them for you lol xx
_April_
Well-Known Member
Great thanks, I hadn't heard of that first one. Looked on there website but no data on there, so being a geek I'm going to email them!
Next time you see your vet could you ask him to explain his opinion on Suppleaze Gold as it actually does contain very high levels of both Glucosamine and Chondroitin, would be good to know exactly why he doesn't approve of it as it's the one I was going to try first (along with pure MSM).
Puppy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this thread April. I'd be very interested to know how synequine compares, also. I shall bring home some info from the box tomorrow (if I remember to 
) xx
) xx
vonno
Well-Known Member
Hi, If you have time, please could you check out Equiflex made by VetVits:
Costs between £17.95 and £18.95 a tub - details below from website:
Each 8g level scoop contains 5,000 mg glucosamine HCl, 1,000 mg marine-sourced chondroitin and 260 mg manganese ascorbate. The partnership of these high strength nutrients works to maintain cartilage strength and resilience in a natural way.
62 servings per tub for an average sized horse
Costs between £17.95 and £18.95 a tub - details below from website:
Each 8g level scoop contains 5,000 mg glucosamine HCl, 1,000 mg marine-sourced chondroitin and 260 mg manganese ascorbate. The partnership of these high strength nutrients works to maintain cartilage strength and resilience in a natural way.
62 servings per tub for an average sized horse
foraday
Well-Known Member
What about the mysterious Vetrofen?
Can't find much information on it other than the website of the manufacturers blowing their own trumpet! Same makers of Oxyshot so already buyer beware!
No ingredients listed
the loading dose seems to vary-like up to 4 sachets a day!
I saw a link on HH ages ago with mixes reactions-mostly people saying when they had called animal life they had said that horse wasn't getting enough of it
Ok it looks expensive and probably is especially if feeding 4 sachets a day!
No vets recommendation either!
They did do a refund period of 2 months earlier this year but with so many conditions applied it was unreal!
Money is hard enough at the moment without spending it on something that probably doesn't work!
A quick analysis if you can! But also has ANYONE on here had ANY actual results from it?
Can't find much information on it other than the website of the manufacturers blowing their own trumpet! Same makers of Oxyshot so already buyer beware!
No ingredients listed
the loading dose seems to vary-like up to 4 sachets a day!
I saw a link on HH ages ago with mixes reactions-mostly people saying when they had called animal life they had said that horse wasn't getting enough of it
Ok it looks expensive and probably is especially if feeding 4 sachets a day!
No vets recommendation either!
They did do a refund period of 2 months earlier this year but with so many conditions applied it was unreal!
Money is hard enough at the moment without spending it on something that probably doesn't work!
A quick analysis if you can! But also has ANYONE on here had ANY actual results from it?
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
I have been following this great post with interest and Im feeding Suppleze Gold simply as a precaution to my 9 year old mare so she only has half a scoop per day.
Can you tell me if she would be getting enough of everything with this small amount per day or am I wasting my money.
Keep up the good work its great.
Can you tell me if she would be getting enough of everything with this small amount per day or am I wasting my money.
Keep up the good work its great.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Friend of mine tried Vetrofen and she thought it worked.
It has the active ingredient listed on the box (can't remember the name) so if anyone has some maybe they could post what it is but it's not glucosamine, msm, ha, chondriotin so not sure it's relevant if a comparison of these.
I was told 2 things about supplements which it would be useful if someone with more scientific knowledge could confirm.
1) That they don't work as a preventative - i.e. no point to feed to stop your horse having joint problems,though they can be helpful once they do.
2) That they need to be fed at the recommended dosages (mentioned at the start of this thread) so feeding manufacturers maintenance doses that are a 1/2 or 1/4 of the this dosage is a waste of money.
Any comments?
It has the active ingredient listed on the box (can't remember the name) so if anyone has some maybe they could post what it is but it's not glucosamine, msm, ha, chondriotin so not sure it's relevant if a comparison of these.
I was told 2 things about supplements which it would be useful if someone with more scientific knowledge could confirm.
1) That they don't work as a preventative - i.e. no point to feed to stop your horse having joint problems,though they can be helpful once they do.
2) That they need to be fed at the recommended dosages (mentioned at the start of this thread) so feeding manufacturers maintenance doses that are a 1/2 or 1/4 of the this dosage is a waste of money.
Any comments?
onemoretime
Well-Known Member
Will be interested to hear replies to this statement.
Maybe I can save some money if they dont work as a preventative. Its just that there's nothing like prevention rather than cure but if it doesnt work then there's also no point in wasting money.
Maybe I can save some money if they dont work as a preventative. Its just that there's nothing like prevention rather than cure but if it doesnt work then there's also no point in wasting money.
CBAnglo
Well-Known Member
I think I have tried almost every joint supplement on my horse who has arthritis. I always feed at the optimum rates (i.e. I ignore what the box says about loading and maintenance and feed to ensure that he has 10mg Glucosamine and 10mg MSM). Chronditon is a bit of a grey area - some reports suggest that it isnt really needed - I have tended to ignore this, but generally by increasing the dosage I almost always am feeding 3mg.
The ones I have had the most success with are superflex and suppleaze gold - but I am actually feeding these together. I feed superflex at maximum dose (6 scoops a day), together with a maintenance dose of suppleaze gold.
Riaflex made no difference and neither did synequin. Extraflex was useless as was equiflex. Cortaflex made no difference, pure glucosamine + MSM again no difference (which leads me to believe that there is some other ingredient which must be present to make a difference).
The only supplements I havent tried are the equistro one and cosequin optimized, which I have just received from the States. I am currently waiting to finish the suppleaze gold so I can see. There is also another supplement which works on the cartilage called lubrisyn which I will probably try after the cosequin (unless there is a marked improvement in general stiffness).
The other ones which made a slight difference were mobifor (vet strength superflex) and arthriaid, but the difference wore off over time.
I have been trialling joint supplements for the last 2 yrs, giving each at least 2 months, if not 4 to see a difference.
With respect to price, I just dont think you can compare easily. There seems to be a huge disparity between the retail price for many of the supplements. I think you just have to see how it affects your horse.
As for whether they act as a preventative - I am sure that they do work. Studies on GLM showed that the people in New Zealand who had GLM as part of their staple diet had a lower level of osteoarthritis than the rest of the country. I think you need to feed before you develop arthritis - afterwards all you are doing is trying to relieve the symptoms.
I fed my 4 yr old the competition rate of cortaflex and then superflex before he was diagnosed with arthritis - in fact, he didnt show up as being arthritic at all, he wasnt stiff or anything, and nothing showed on the xrays. It was actually damage to the cartilage which was causing the arthritis, but still there was no usual pock marks on the surrounding bone (i.e. he couldnt have arthroscopy as there was nothing to smooth down) yet he had arthritis.
The ones I have had the most success with are superflex and suppleaze gold - but I am actually feeding these together. I feed superflex at maximum dose (6 scoops a day), together with a maintenance dose of suppleaze gold.
Riaflex made no difference and neither did synequin. Extraflex was useless as was equiflex. Cortaflex made no difference, pure glucosamine + MSM again no difference (which leads me to believe that there is some other ingredient which must be present to make a difference).
The only supplements I havent tried are the equistro one and cosequin optimized, which I have just received from the States. I am currently waiting to finish the suppleaze gold so I can see. There is also another supplement which works on the cartilage called lubrisyn which I will probably try after the cosequin (unless there is a marked improvement in general stiffness).
The other ones which made a slight difference were mobifor (vet strength superflex) and arthriaid, but the difference wore off over time.
I have been trialling joint supplements for the last 2 yrs, giving each at least 2 months, if not 4 to see a difference.
With respect to price, I just dont think you can compare easily. There seems to be a huge disparity between the retail price for many of the supplements. I think you just have to see how it affects your horse.
As for whether they act as a preventative - I am sure that they do work. Studies on GLM showed that the people in New Zealand who had GLM as part of their staple diet had a lower level of osteoarthritis than the rest of the country. I think you need to feed before you develop arthritis - afterwards all you are doing is trying to relieve the symptoms.
I fed my 4 yr old the competition rate of cortaflex and then superflex before he was diagnosed with arthritis - in fact, he didnt show up as being arthritic at all, he wasnt stiff or anything, and nothing showed on the xrays. It was actually damage to the cartilage which was causing the arthritis, but still there was no usual pock marks on the surrounding bone (i.e. he couldnt have arthroscopy as there was nothing to smooth down) yet he had arthritis.
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spaniel
Well-Known Member
Criso....
Vetrofen is based on a couple of plant extracts.
I did manage to get that out of them and then looked up the properties. The plant names escape me at the moment but I recall that one of them is used in human chinese medicine for sore throats....the other was pretty tenuous as well.
I will see if I can find out where I wrote it all down....
Vetrofen is based on a couple of plant extracts.
I did manage to get that out of them and then looked up the properties. The plant names escape me at the moment but I recall that one of them is used in human chinese medicine for sore throats....the other was pretty tenuous as well.
I will see if I can find out where I wrote it all down....
Sophiesmum
Well-Known Member
If you get a chance how does Equine Americas Cortavet powder compare?
PS - This does make for interesting reading
PS - This does make for interesting reading
spaniel
Well-Known Member
Vetrofen contains
Scutellaria Baicalensis and Acacia Catechu as the 'active' ingredients.
One is mildly tranquilising - in mice.... the other is used in chinese herbal 'medicine' as a treatment for sore thoats and the squits.
Now given that Oxyshot wasnt exactly the most scientifically proven thing Im inclined to think that maybe these ingredients are a bit off the mark????
Scutellaria Baicalensis and Acacia Catechu as the 'active' ingredients.
One is mildly tranquilising - in mice.... the other is used in chinese herbal 'medicine' as a treatment for sore thoats and the squits.
Now given that Oxyshot wasnt exactly the most scientifically proven thing Im inclined to think that maybe these ingredients are a bit off the mark????
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JenHunt
Well-Known Member
MSM is a source of bioavailable sulphur. Sulphur itself is not a very absorbable element, so MSM is a was of making it more so by attaching it to part of an amino acid (which the body uses to form proteins).
By doing this, more of the sulphur is absorbed by the horse's body, and it is then available for the body to use in the repair of all connective tissues and cartlidge. It is the sulphur that helps keep the joint capsule strong, the tendons and ligaments stretchy but tough, and it has a very vital role to play in growth and repair of damaged tissues.
Does that help?
Sophiesmum
Well-Known Member
I am normally blinded by science, but just had to say Jen, that makes sense!
lillith
Well-Known Member
Wow April, fantastic. I love this kind of comparison and have been meaning to do something like it for a while but had trouble getting hold of the research. Thanks for linking.
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
glad I could be of help Sophiesmum!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I'm not dismissing anyone's experience but part of me thinks that 10g of Glucosamine HCL is the same whether it comes from Cortaflex, or Suppleaze Gold or Superflex or Newmarket Joint Supplement.
So as long as you have a clear idea of what you want to give and check levels/dosage of these key ingredients, there are alot of supplements that fulfil this.
Just have to watch the manufacturers sneaky recommended doses which don't give enough but make it look cheaper to feed per day.
So as long as you have a clear idea of what you want to give and check levels/dosage of these key ingredients, there are alot of supplements that fulfil this.
Just have to watch the manufacturers sneaky recommended doses which don't give enough but make it look cheaper to feed per day.
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
i think what was meant was that glucosamine HCl from a synthetic source may not be as readily absorbed as one from a natural source, so you're feeding enough, but not all of it is used by the horse. So in effect you are creating expensive horse poo.
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criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
i think what was meant was that glucosamine HCl from a synthetic source may not be as readily absorbed as one from a natural source, so you're feeding enough, but not all of it is used by the horse. So in effect you are creating expensive horse poo.
I see that and the debate about other forms of glucosamine e.g. suphate but I could just have easily used MSM as an example.
I was just referring to the fact on some threads people have a variety of experiences with different brands which looking at the label seem to have the same compounds synthesised the same way.
So without dismissing CBanglo's experience, ( if it works, then don't change a thing) part of me asks what would be the benefit of feeding both suppleaze gold and superflex when the key ingredients overlap, how would that be better than feeding extra of one or the other?
_April_
Well-Known Member
I have just emailed Topspec for you. Now on the website it looks like the 10:10 ratio refers to Glucosamine and MSM - not Chondroitin.
I have asked them to clarify this and I'll let you know what they say.
For me personally, I would be looking for something with Chondroitin to tie in with the study I found on my opening post.
CBAnglo
Well-Known Member
Because they dont all actually contain the same ingredients. I agree, you want to feed the optimum rate of glucosamine and MSM (and/or chronditon) but when I fed pure glucosamine and MSM they did absolutely nothing, whereas feeding the doseage of superflex which amounted to 10mg of glucosamine etc did make a difference (which Sue Dyson even saw after 3 days without superflex). Even the more expensive supplements such as Roaflex and Synequin which give 10mg on loading (and premierflex which from memory gave 13mg).
That's why, although choosing a supplement which gives you the recommended dose at the cheapest rate per day doesnt mean that it is going to be the one that works for your horse.
_April_
Well-Known Member
I have also emailed Horse First and Cosequin.
Sometimes I think I am more confused than when I started looking at this but at least I won't be feeding useless powder at 'maintenance' levels anymore. Makes me mad at how much money I have wasted on doing this!
Am glad other people find it just as interesting
Sometimes I think I am more confused than when I started looking at this
but at least I won't be feeding useless powder at 'maintenance' levels anymore. Makes me mad at how much money I have wasted on doing this!Am glad other people find it just as interesting
NOISYGIRL
Well-Known Member
Sorry to be a pain
So............ which supplements came out on top ? for cost and effectiveness ? which ones actually have the right levels of chondroitin and glucosamine in the recommended daily dose
Many thanks
Really good work by the way !
By the way, I've been feeding cortaflex for over 10 years, feel conned, I switched to NAF superflex but notice your comments about the quantity you'd have to feed for the daily allowance to include correct amounts so I'm VERY confused now
Thanks in advance
So............ which supplements came out on top ? for cost and effectiveness ? which ones actually have the right levels of chondroitin and glucosamine in the recommended daily dose
Many thanks
Really good work by the way !
By the way, I've been feeding cortaflex for over 10 years, feel conned, I switched to NAF superflex but notice your comments about the quantity you'd have to feed for the daily allowance to include correct amounts so I'm VERY confused now
Thanks in advance
nadinek82
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, looks like i'm going back to the feed shop tommorow! I've had my horse on a few different supplements over the years because i find they don't work as well after a while. So i decided today that as i was about to run out of superflex i'd try another one. Anyway, i was being rushed out of the feed shop and didn't have much time to compare the ingredients on the superflex and cortaflex (only two they had in stock) and couldn't remember the differences so i thought i'd get cortaflex again as it's been about four years since he was last on it. Now that i've read the OP i think i'll just take it back! I used to use newmarket joint supplement, how does that compare? It used to cost me £29 but i can't remember how long the tub used to last. I've heard good things about permanax (sp), has anyone else tried it? This is a great post
Keltic
Well-Known Member
I have the cosequin details.. hope it helps, great thread too!
Im using cosequin its around £60 for 400g Here are the measures.
Weight Loading period/day Maintenance period/day Low maintenance/day
less than 300kg 6.6g a.m. 6.6g p.m. 3.3g
300kg-600kg 9.9g a.m. 9.9g p.m. 3.3g-6.6g
over 600kg 13.2g a.m. 13.2g p.m. 6.6g
This site has lots of info April.
http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/company.asp?ID=79
Im using cosequin its around £60 for 400g Here are the measures.
Weight Loading period/day Maintenance period/day Low maintenance/day
less than 300kg 6.6g a.m. 6.6g p.m. 3.3g
300kg-600kg 9.9g a.m. 9.9g p.m. 3.3g-6.6g
over 600kg 13.2g a.m. 13.2g p.m. 6.6g
This site has lots of info April.
http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/company.asp?ID=79
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criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Nadinek82
Newmarket Joint supplement is glucosamine only though their recommneded dose is the correct one you will probably want to add MSM and Chondrotin.
Pernamax is green lipped mussel which is an alterntative to chondroitin. I fed it for a bit but when I was getting msm and glucosamine from the vet on insurance.
When I came off the insurance I switched to maxaflex which is their combined supplement (I posted the ingredients earlier on this post) and I feed at 1 1/2 scoops to get the level I want.
It really helps to shop around and chase the special offers. I bought my last lot from Mile end equestrian.
Newmarket Joint supplement is glucosamine only though their recommneded dose is the correct one you will probably want to add MSM and Chondrotin.
Pernamax is green lipped mussel which is an alterntative to chondroitin. I fed it for a bit but when I was getting msm and glucosamine from the vet on insurance.
When I came off the insurance I switched to maxaflex which is their combined supplement (I posted the ingredients earlier on this post) and I feed at 1 1/2 scoops to get the level I want.
It really helps to shop around and chase the special offers. I bought my last lot from Mile end equestrian.
Cliqmo
Well-Known Member
This is the first thread in months (if ever ) where I have genuinely read every single post with interest and enthusiasm for the topic. Bravo OP!!!
I reeeeally hope you conclude by telling us what we should all buy!!!
) where I have genuinely read every single post with interest and enthusiasm for the topic. Bravo OP!!! I reeeeally hope you conclude by telling us what we should all buy!!!
happy_talk
Well-Known Member
Although no-one hasn't mentioned it yet- i just wanted to post info on BlueChip Dynamic. Advertised to imply a joint benefit, but i was shocked when i recieved the requested joint supplement levels in it:
3500mg/kg glucosamine
3500mg/kg MSM
so to feed the 10g of glucosamine per day = 2.85kg of blue chip/day!!!!!!
FYI- Joint RLF contains
100g/L glucosamine
50g/L MSM
=> therefore need to feed 100ml/day. No idea of the costs, but doubt it's cheap!
3500mg/kg glucosamine
3500mg/kg MSM
so to feed the 10g of glucosamine per day = 2.85kg of blue chip/day!!!!!!
FYI- Joint RLF contains
100g/L glucosamine
50g/L MSM
=> therefore need to feed 100ml/day. No idea of the costs, but doubt it's cheap!
NOISYGIRL
Well-Known Member
Come on April, we need to know
PoppyG
Well-Known Member
Could you compare Arthri-Aid by Nutri Science pls? this is what my horse is currently on as she has a bog spavin, thanks