Jumping Youngsters - when is too soon

[LEC]

I would not jump on the lunge- there is no way to avoid landing and turning almost straightaway and that’s a terrible thing for everything in the leg. The only time I jump on a lunge line is as an introduction to a ditch, but that’s from walk or a tiny jog.

The best thing you to do for a young horse is to keep your own weight as light as possible, to ride it in well fitting tack, on good surfaces (I'm a big fan of grass over anything else), to condition it properly for the work it is asked to do and to ride it in balance. It's all very well holding off jumping, but if you're not doing those other things, it won’t be the deciding factor over its future soundness IMO

Also what’s the point if the foot balance is incorrect as you will knock years off a horse or they have crap confo or you are trying to get them to do a job they are not designed to do.

To me this discussion is pointless if the rest or some of it is wrong anyway. A nervous, unbalanced rider jumping a 6yo horse on a poor surface at 60cm will do more long term damage than a decent rider jumping a 4yo over 80cm a few times.

Also back to the op - a 4yo jumping newcomers/foxhunters is just fecking stupid. The person who did that should be shot. What is the point? If you have a nice 4yo it doesn’t need to jump 1.20m when 4yo classes are 90cm and the very decent sjers will jump around classes 6x as a 4yo. Any decent rider will know what they are sat on and it can wait until it’s 6 for those classes. Most pros would NEVER enter a 4yo in those classes. I saw someone take a 4yo in NC last year and it lived in draw reins as well. A supposed professional and I thought that was dumb. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Problem is BS won’t change age eligibility rules as doesn’t suit them as most people are not so dumb.

Just because someone wrecked a horse and there are lots of people who do daily, doesn’t mean you should spend your life in fear again. Jumping a 5yo once a week on a decent surface in a considered manner is not going to be detrimental unless you are unbalanced, nervous, don’t know what you are doing, wrong saddle, unfit horse, fat horse, poor feet, hold onto the mouth, let the horse be unbalanced, ride it while its growing, make it sore etc but all the above can be done at any age

 

[maya2008]

Also what’s the point if the foot balance is incorrect as you will knock years off a horse or they have crap confo or you are trying to get them to do a job they are not designed to do.

To me this discussion is pointless if the rest or some of it is wrong anyway. A nervous, unbalanced rider jumping a 6yo horse on a poor surface at 60cm will do more long term damage than a decent rider jumping a 4yo over 80cm a few times.

Also back to the op - a 4yo jumping newcomers/foxhunters is just fecking stupid. The person who did that should be shot. What is the point? If you have a nice 4yo it doesn’t need to jump 1.20m when 4yo classes are 90cm and the very decent sjers will jump around classes 6x as a 4yo. Any decent rider will know what they are sat on and it can wait until it’s 6 for those classes. Most pros would NEVER enter a 4yo in those classes. I saw someone take a 4yo in NC last year and it lived in draw reins as well. A supposed professional and I thought that was dumb. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Problem is BS won’t change age eligibility rules as doesn’t suit them as most people are not so dumb.

Just because someone wrecked a horse and there are lots of people who do daily, doesn’t mean you should spend your life in fear again. Jumping a 5yo once a week on a decent surface in a considered manner is not going to be detrimental unless you are unbalanced, nervous, don’t know what you are doing, wrong saddle, unfit horse, fat horse, poor feet, hold onto the mouth, let the horse be unbalanced, ride it while its growing, make it sore etc but all the above can be done at any age

This really. Common sense is a wonderful thing. Can you back a 3 year old or jump a 4 year old without doing harm? Of course you can. If you are mindful of their age as you ride, and ensure they’re balanced, not overweight, tack fits etc etc. Can you ride a 3.5 year old or jump a 4 year old like they are 8? NO!

My rising 5yo is jumping cross poles and small uprights once a week or so. She leaps around in the field plenty more than that, and her rider is approx 10% of her body weight.

Many years ago I had a young well bred jumping pony. She was fence hopping to feed her need to jump by 4 and a bit. So 90cm+ fences multiple times a day. She’d head for a jump someone left up while loose schooling and jump that - anything. I jumped her 90cm at 4yo under saddle because anything less was truly terrifying (too much power, felt like you were being catapulted into the ground!). We did a few courses, a bit of filler practice, nothing overly exciting. Did more as she grew up, but never needed to jump often. You could pull her out of the field and she’d sail merrily over 1m20 with enthusiasm and scope. I had her until she died - other than one field injury that required surgery she was always sound, no issues, no arthritis.

 

[Spirit7]

I was about to start jumping my 5yo (4.5 yo currently) but just noticed he’s gone bum high so putting it on hold till he’s done with his growth spurt.

This is my main reason I think he’s got another inch to grow in him so holding off just in case of a spurt.

 

[Spirit7]

I also hate age classes, I think it is so detrimental to any youngster, let alone the increasingly hypermobile performance horses we are breeding.

I do think you have to a) do what you can do with what you have and b) look at the horse in front of you. I backed Dex at rising 4, I would have waited but we had done so much in hand hacking and he was so chill (and I am so green at backing them) that I wanted to at least sit on and walk around before he got over confident in himself, he was still amicable and naive at rising 4. He then had a few months off and I brought him back at bang on 4yo in the May and did a lot of hacking over that summer and got some life experience under his belt, then started in the school a little come Sept. I haven't jumped because I don't think it's necessary as he won't be sold and I am not desperate to do it, but this winter I have schooled twice a week. I'd rather not but if he is unridden he gets bored and destructive and naughty for the YM, so I do what I can. I can't hack as I work full time and it’s dark, but I do go out at the weekend

I also hate age classes, I think it is so detrimental to any youngster, let alone the increasingly hypermobile performance horses we are breeding.

I do think you have to a) do what you can do with what you have and b) look at the horse in front of you. I backed Dex at rising 4, I would have waited but we had done so much in hand hacking and he was so chill (and I am so green at backing them) that I wanted to at least sit on and walk around before he got over confident in himself, he was still amicable and naive at rising 4. He then had a few months off and I brought him back at bang on 4yo in the May and did a lot of hacking over that summer and got some life experience under his belt, then started in the school a little come Sept. I haven't jumped because I don't think it's necessary as he won't be sold and I am not desperate to do it, but this winter I have schooled twice a week. I'd rather not but if he is unridden he gets bored and destructive and naughty for the YM, so I do what I can. I can't hack as I work full time and its dark, but I do go out at the weekend.

I have also had to school lightly 15 - 20 mins twice a week as I work in London everyday and have 3 horses to manage too so hard to find hacking time in the week. My boy likes to be mentally engaged so I’ve long reined and risen and made obstacles courses for in hand and ridden work inbetween. I don’t have school lights either! Saturday tomorrow yay.

 

[paddi22]

I would jump mine when four, but it wouldn't be in arena. I pick tiny, tiny logs on xc hires, and would have them play with banks, ditches and water, but just following another horse and having fun. I think it stands to them to be figuring out their feet and balance, and gets them forward and enjoying it. but it would be done with an attitude of pure play. I found them when you start with arena jumps they are more confident,. brave and forward.

 

[Spirit7]

Also what’s the point if the foot balance is incorrect as you will knock years off a horse or they have crap confo or you are trying to get them to do a job they are not designed to do.

To me this discussion is pointless if the rest or some of it is wrong anyway. A nervous, unbalanced rider jumping a 6yo horse on a poor surface at 60cm will do more long term damage than a decent rider jumping a 4yo over 80cm a few times.

Also back to the op - a 4yo jumping newcomers/foxhunters is just fecking stupid. The person who did that should be shot. What is the point? If you have a nice 4yo it doesn’t need to jump 1.20m when 4yo classes are 90cm and the very decent sjers will jump around classes 6x as a 4yo. Any decent rider will know what they are sat on and it can wait until it’s 6 for those classes. Most pros would NEVER enter a 4yo in those classes. I saw someone take a 4yo in NC last year and it lived in draw reins as well. A supposed professional and I thought that was dumb. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Problem is BS won’t change age eligibility rules as doesn’t suit them as most people are not so dumb.

Just because someone wrecked a horse and there are lots of people who do daily, doesn’t mean you should spend your life in fear again. Jumping a 5yo once a week on a decent surface in a considered manner is not going to be detrimental unless you are unbalanced, nervous, don’t know what you are doing, wrong saddle, unfit horse, fat horse, poor feet, hold onto the mouth, let the horse be unbalanced, ride it while its growing, make it sore etc but all the above can be done at any age

I’m not in fear I’m just mindful my horse is still growing.
His site was ridden by Pippa Funnel and won Burhley both as a 4 and 5 year old so make of that what you will.
My old boy was bred in France, sold to Holland to be broken and then sold for £30k to a professional rider (who I won’t mention who jumped him 1.20 at Hickstead as a 4 year old. I saw the photos of him over hickstead wall and Water and they actually made me buy him such was my naivety.
I did my own navicular rehab and he’s still going
I also trim my own horses mostly having learned a lot over the last 15 years.
I let my 4 year old jump whatever it in front of us when hacking I am also blessed to have a beautiful arena surface 20. X 60 but I won’t be doing any jumping until he is past 5 or bodily matured. Thanks for your input. It’s good to hear different opinions!

 

[Spirit7]

I would jump mine when four, but it wouldn't be in arena. I pick tiny, tiny logs on xc hires, and would have them play with banks, ditches and water, but just following another horse and having fun. I think it stands to them to be figuring out their feet and balance, and gets them forward and enjoying it. but it would be done with an attitude of pure play. I found them when you start with arena jumps they are more confident,. brave and forward.

100% agree

 

[CastlelackSportHorses]

are you selling?

I am

 

[CastlelackSportHorses]

All my young horses once backed played over ditches and logs out hacking and over tiny coloured fences in the arena, getting them used to going between wings and popping a plank, tiny fillers and so on. Nothing taxing, just keeping it fun and educational (without them realising it). Small courses (fixed and sj) with spread out fences at 4/5, minimal jumping effort and keeping them forward and happy.

I detest loose jumping of youngsters and young horse classes with a passion. Terrible things.

Agreed.
Age classes should be abolished!

My rising 7yr old has tipped away up to 1m last year, now she is mature enough in her body and brain(more so) I will start jumping bigger tracks, if she doesnt sell in the mean time.
I dont understand peoples rush!

 

[LEC]

Age classes are wildly successful indicators of Olympic level horses at 5+. The 4yo class is useful as it makes people keep a lid on it as it’s only 90cm which tbh any half decent horse can trot round. BE has got rid of 4yo classes and BYEH 4yo class is a sales class not a predictor of success. For sjing it’s very useful to highlight stallions progeny or as a sales tool.

As I have said a million times on this forum, age classes are not designed for mediocre horses which let’s be honest most of us have on this forum. If you are drilling to do them then you shouldn’t be doing them. Most 4yo who go to age classes will hardly jump as just don’t need to. If they lack confidence or need more time then you don’t take them.

I have never had a horse make age classes, they are a bonus if you have a horse which is ready and pros can do less with a horse than amateurs if they are good pros and some like Ros Canter are excellent at it.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Age classes are wildly successful indicators of Olympic level horses at 5+. The 4yo class is useful as it makes people keep a lid on it as it’s only 90cm which tbh any half decent horse can trot round. BE has got rid of 4yo classes and BYEH 4yo class is a sales class not a predictor of success. For sjing it’s very useful to highlight stallions progeny or as a sales tool.

As I have said a million times on this forum, age classes are not designed for mediocre horses which let’s be honest most of us have on this forum. If you are drilling to do them then you shouldn’t be doing them. Most 4yo who go to age classes will hardly jump as just don’t need to. If they lack confidence or need more time then you don’t take them.

I have never had a horse make age classes, they are a bonus if you have a horse which is ready and pros can do less with a horse than amateurs if they are good pros and some like Ros Canter are excellent at it.

Are there any facts and figures to show the percentage of horses who do age classes who go on to Olympic or other high level competitions please?

 

[LEC]

Are there any facts and figures to show the percentage of horses who do age classes who go on to Olympic or other high level competitions please?

It’s pretty easy to research.
BYEH 5yo winners
Winners and runners up of Blenheim 8/9yo class
Winners and runners up of Le Lion 6/7yo champs.
6yo and 7yo winners and runners up of World breeding Sjing finals
Newcomers finals for 6yo and Foxhunter finals for 7yo at HOYS but they changed the rule so no longer what it used to be.
6/7yo winners and runners up of world breeding dressage championships.
Germany and France have their own champs with Germany having them at Bundeschampionate and France for eventing is Pompidou.

A few years ago I looked at last 15 years of BYEH 4/5yo winners and top 5 and it was pretty conclusive for 5yo. 4yo mostly sold as sjers!

 

[Spirit7]

Are there any facts and figures to show the percentage of horses who do age classes who go on to Olympic or other high level competitions please?

My boys sire who won the 4 and 5 year old class consecutively was retired to stud by 8

 

[maya2008]

My boys sire who won the 4 and 5 year old class consecutively was retired to stud by 8

I wouldn’t breed from a horse that retired by the age of 8!

 

[Spirit7]

My boys sire who won the 4 and 5 year old class consecutively was retired to stud by 8

Oh and my rising 23 year old who I naively bought at 6.5years in 2008 was jumping as a 4 year old and his sire was a big name SF Stallion so I feel I’ve learned from this as the sellers really saw me coming ! But I don’t regret it. He’s a fabulous horse and friend

I wouldn’t breed from a horse that retired by the age of 8!

really? I think if there was an issue other then injury (which this was) I would if I were a breeder. Most horses I know bred locally (as in I know owners) to me are bred from mares that have retired early due to injury thinking about it!

 

[TheMule]

I’m not in fear I’m just mindful my horse is still growing.
His site was ridden by Pippa Funnel and won Burhley both as a 4 and 5 year old so make of that what you will.
My old boy was bred in France, sold to Holland to be broken and then sold for £30k to a professional rider (who I won’t mention who jumped him 1.20 at Hickstead as a 4 year old. I saw the photos of him over hickstead wall and Water and they actually made me buy him such was my naivety.
I did my own navicular rehab and he’s still going
I also trim my own horses mostly having learned a lot over the last 15 years.
I let my 4 year old jump whatever it in front of us when hacking I am also blessed to have a beautiful arena surface 20. X 60 but I won’t be doing any jumping until he is past 5 or bodily matured. Thanks for your input. It’s good to hear different opinions!

Billy Be Cool was very lightly competed as a young horse. He won the BYEH class with a very good jockey on board who wouldn’t have needed to do much prep with him. He evented 3 times up to the age of 7 and then made a very minimal impact on the eventing world before breaking. He hasn’t been used much as a stallion due to that, and the fact he wasn’t a particularly easy type to use- he doesn’t have enough blood to breed eventers out of anything other than full TB mares and he isn’t a good enough jumper to use as a SJ sire

 

[sport horse]

When you al say 'rising 4 or rising 5' are they 4 this year or 5? All horses have their birthday on 1`st January irrespective of the date they were born and it is utterly confusing if people do not stick to this. A 4 year old in 2025 was born in 2021 and is eligible for four year classes throughout 2025 - it does not change classes on its acual birthday!

 

[maya2008]

Rising 4 means past 1st Jan on the year they will turn 4 but not reached their actual birthday yet. It’s a really important term for youngsters because their physical maturity follows their actual age rather than our arbitrary terms. So a rising 3yo is not ready to be backed at all, it may only be 2 years and 5 months old! But it’s ‘technically’ 3. Same for rising 4yo. I have one of those - so immature she’s turned away until spring and who won’t actually be 4 until late summer. Would I jump her this year? No. Would I jump a March born 4 year old in summer? Gently, yes.

4 year old classes I seem to remember run later in the year to try to ensure that all horses entered are physically, as well as technically, 4.

 

[Spirit7]

Billy Be Cool was very lightly competed as a young horse. He won the BYEH class with a very good jockey on board who wouldn’t have needed to do much prep with him. He evented 3 times up to the age of 7 and then made a very minimal impact on the eventing world before breaking. He hasn’t been used much as a stallion due to that, and the fact he wasn’t a particularly easy type to use- he doesn’t have enough blood to breed eventers out of anything other than full TB mares and he isn’t a good enough jumper to use as a SJ sire

Yes I am fully aware of this and many more details on how he ended up at stud and where and why but would imagine not many people would have been interested is such detail, how else do you think I managed to afford such a lovely colt! Pippa Funnel is a fantastic rider, although having had conversations I think your very little work comments is a slight understatement and he actually won 4 and 5 year old class (all available on google where I’m guessing you’ve been) I’m clearly not even an amateur rider just a private horse owner who wanted to make her own horse and I’m delighted to own such a fantastic animal with such an amazing personality. I’m also delighted I don’t have to sell him.

 

[Spirit7]

When you al say 'rising 4 or rising 5' are they 4 this year or 5? All horses have their birthday on 1`st January irrespective of the date they were born and it is utterly confusing if people do not stick to this. A 4 year old in 2025 was born in 2021 and is eligible for four year classes throughout 2025 - it does not change classes on its acual birthday!

Mine is 5 in April hence rising 5

 

[sport horse]

Sorry it is 5!

 

[Rowreach]

Sorry it is 5!

It's significantly different and more relevant to look at the actual foaling date when one is looking at the maturity of a particular horse and the work it is capable of doing at a given point.

The 1st January thing has also made more breeders go for unnaturally early foals, as they will be bigger and show better in many disciplines, regardless of whether this is good for the horse, bringing it into the world when the weather is colder and wetter and they are more likely to have to stay indoors and not be outside in a healthier environment and using themselves as they should, from the start.

 

[First Frost]

I bought my connie Xtb as an unbacked 4 year old. He wasn't backed until the autumn of his 4th year. He spent the winter hacking and started going in the school in the May when he turned 5. Pretty quickly after that he started doing poles and very small jumps - maybe 50cm. I introduced everything ditches and water trays, planks , fillers. skinnies, basically everything he was going to meet in the future, just very small.
He only moved up to about 80cm at 6 , but practised different lines and distances.
He is now rising 10 and is an absolute jumping school master. He easily jumps up to 1.20m ( he is only 15 hands) but I prefer about 1m max. He is totally solid and will jump anything asked of him from a beautful balanced canter.
I believe this is because he had loads of time to build confidence in any jumping situation over low fences.

 

[TheMule]

Yes I am fully aware of this and many more details on how he ended up at stud and where and why but would imagine not many people would have been interested is such detail, how else do you think I managed to afford such a lovely colt! Pippa Funnel is a fantastic rider, although having had conversations I think your very little work comments is a slight understatement and he actually won 4 and 5 year old class (all available on google where I’m guessing you’ve been) I’m clearly not even an amateur rider just a private horse owner who wanted to make her own horse and I’m delighted to own such a fantastic animal with such an amazing personality. I’m also delighted I don’t have to sell him.

Actually, I am an event rider myself, often in the same events as him when he was eventing, an avid follower of the sport and very into breeding- I have seen the horse in the flesh plenty of times and know some of his offspring.
My comments stand.

 

[PurpleSpots]

In actual fact, in the UK it's historically supposed to be only racehorses (TBs) who have their official birthdays on Jan 1st (hence why their stud season opens on Feb 14th and TB breeders use artificial lights to encourage early cycling of TB mares), all other horses on May 1st, except New Forest ponies who are June 1st.

 

[ihatework]

I actually don’t think it matters if you say 5 or rising 5, it’s pretty obvious what it means and not worth nit-picking. Only calling him a 4yo would be incorrect.

 

[Spirit7]

Actually, I am an event rider myself, often in the same events as him when he was eventing, an avid follower of the sport and very into breeding- I have seen the horse in the flesh plenty of times and know some of his offspring.
My comments stand.

So do mine apart from the google bit. lol sorry! I can’t dispute the breeding knowledge re TBs etc as i don’t have it. I still feel lucky to own such a lovely horse

 

[Birker2020]

Lari was jumping round a five year old qualifier at Hickstead at a height of 1.15m/1.20m.

Which means he must have been jumping at least as a four year old, maybe backed and ridden away as a 3yr old.

No wonder he'd got a myriad of orthopedic issues.

 

[Birker2020]

But racehorses are sat on as yearlings and ridden.

It makes me so mad!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hello lovely horsey people
Following on from my how much post yesterday regarding pricing my youngster should I have to sell I received lots of good advice, thanks

So my question is as I was mostly advised my rising 5 year old needs to jumping to be worth (some) money, how soon have you all jumped your horses when breaking and what and how much have you done.

I am so wary of damaging (having owned a broken horse who was jumped as a 4 year old foxhunter and NC) that I’m terrified to start before 6 ish properly.

However the horse is eager to go and is managing flying changes (not asked I try for trot mostly lol ) over rein change poles all on his own and can happily make a pole on the ground a 3 foot challenge while schooling on happily. So not naughty just enthusiastic!

Your thoughts please

Personally, I hate seeing babies jumping over jumps in the school at under 5when they are being advertised for sale. Any horse can jump and to see babies jumping in an advert puts me off. Also hate the stupid music people add, so I turn sound off as I like to hear the horse when a video is being shown not hidden sound with some ghastly music.


To answer your question, I wise person told me not do anything with her till at least 6 and not serious with my ID till she is at least 7, that is my guide line, when bones are knitted more and ligaments are stronger. MY current ID was jumping show jumps before 5 years and now she has clicking in her joints. Also girl I knew was jumping her horse at 4 by 7 he was PTS as hocks gone.

Obviously people do what they want but that is my age guide.

Do it while they young and their legs get shot.