Junior staff treated poorly

[toppedoff]

I know it's not looking good for racing. This story would've probably only been known to those who are horsey if it wasn't a racing yard if that makes sense..Thought it'll be okay to share this as I feel a few people here may of faced similar treatment or unfairness within the equestrian world in general as exploitation, over working and questionable treatment is common for some grooms. I'd like to look at this as a general issue for the equine world

It's safe to say Robyn Brisland's reputation is probably gone but the sanctions aren't harsh enough. I hope those people are okay.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Not on at all wouldn’t be able to get away with treating staff like that in any other line of work!

 

[bonny]

Not on at all wouldn’t be able to get away with treating staff like that in any other line of work!

He didn’t get away with it and hopefully the two members of staff will take him to a tribunal assuming they have left the yard?

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

He didn’t get away with it and hopefully the two members of staff will take him to a tribunal assuming they have left the yard?

Pretty sure it must of happened over a few incidents so he obviously did get away with it for a short period which is sad

 

[teapot]

Full article is here for anyone interested https://www.racingpost.com/news/bri...ce-culture-to-take-root-in-yard-an10b1Y3c3jf/

Pity the rest of the industry isn't accountable for its workplace cultures

 

[mickysyd]

This is horrific, but young grooms and those under 18 who are just in training are expected to do far too much.. 6 days a week with an average of 72 hours. When the law says 40 hours a week ,8 hours a day over 5 days with 2 days off..
its just passed off as. "Well that's just the equine world " I'm sure we shouldn't be taking this as a response.im sure we stopped sending kids up chimneys and down the pits decades ago!! Why hasn't the equine world caught up

 

[toppedoff]

This is horrific, but young grooms and those under 18 who are just in training are expected to do far too much.. 6 days a week with an average of 72 hours. When the law says 40 hours a week ,8 hours a day over 5 days with 2 days off..
its just passed off as. "Well that's just the equine world " I'm sure we shouldn't be taking this as a response.im sure we stopped sending kids up chimneys and down the pits decades ago!! Why hasn't the equine world caught up

i do hope regulations come soon

 

[mickysyd]

i do hope regulations come soon

They are there but most people won't stand up and say. We've joined the British grooms association who have been brilliant with help and advice.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Racing is actually far more highly regulated than any other equine business. Apart from long days at the races (which for junior members of staff are few and far between to start with) you do generally work your set hours with 10-15mins leeway because animals don't know what the time is and you can't just walk out if it's not all done.

We work 40.5 hours a week (ish, as I say, it's animals but you wouldn't exceed an extra hour a week if your just yard/riding staff) and that is split over 6 days. We get a day and a half off every week. We start at 7am. Have a half hour break at either 9am or 10.30am depending on how many lots you ride at the first yard. Then lunch is 1-2pm-ish, it's an hour from when you finish to when you go back. Then we get done around 3.30pm, again give or take 10-15mins. Our half day we finish at 1-ish.

I know not every racing yard works like this and unless you are going racing your not being flogged about here there and everywhere at all times of day and night. I have heard plenty of horror stories come out of dressage, jumping, eventing and polo yards.

 

[ycbm]

And let's not even question why H&H has not reported the conviction of a British International eventer for failing to abide by a Fire Service prohibition order against using unsafe accommodation above a tack room which had already caught fire once before

The whole equestrian industry needs to stop exploiting people because they can, because they love horses.

 

[toppedoff]

And let's not even question why H&H has not reported the conviction of a British International eventer for failing to abide by a Fire Service prohibition order against using unsafe accommodation above a tack room which had already caught fire once before

I was surprised it seems our little corner only knows about this occurring

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

One thing I will say though is our trade union - nass or nars- whatever it calls itself these days, isn't worth the paper it's names written on.

 

[mickysyd]

And let's not even question why H&H has not reported the conviction of a British International eventer for failing to abide by a Fire Service prohibition order against using unsafe accommodation above a tack room which had already caught fire once before

The whole equestrian industry needs to stop exploiting people because they can, because they love horses.

Absolutely right. Total exploitation because they know the next horse loving youngster will be ready to take the place of anyone who moans

More equestrians need to stick together about this

 

[ycbm]

I have heard plenty of horror stories come out of dressage, jumping, eventing and polo yards.

I have heard and seen so many shocking things from outside racing.

I suspect racing is better at looking after it's employees, in general, than the rest of the equestrian industries.

 

[humblepie]

Lots of racing yards are doing increasingly flexibility on hours and rotas. It’s a bit chicken and egg as staff shortages mean change is not easy but needs change to recruit and retain. Quite a lot do one weekend in three, a few do no weekends with dedicated weekend staff and lots do an afternoon or two off during weeks on rota. If you look at the adverts on careers in racing putting working arrangements in is becoming common place.

 

[mickysyd]

Lots of racing yards are doing increasingly flexibility on hours and rotas. It’s a bit chicken and egg as staff shortages mean change is not easy but needs change to recruit and retain. Quite a lot do one weekend in three, a few do no weekends with dedicated weekend staff and lots do an afternoon or two off during weeks on rota. If you look at the adverts on careers in racing putting working arrangements in is becoming common place.

They just need to take some of this from the racing world and apply it elsewhere

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I think the main difference between racing and other disciplines is that it is generally a much larger workforce in a yard. Small yard have 20 horses, big yards 100+ so you are working with large numbers of people. 2/3 of them I would say come in at the under 25 bracket. What you do need in racing is a thick skin. Not only because you need to tough out the injuries to the horses you love but you need to give as good as you get with the staff as well.

I'm not trying to justify anything here BTW I am just saying it straight. You NEED to be able to take a ribbing, you NEED to be able to take a joke, you NEED to not be offended by a lot of things or at the very least you need to let it float straight over your head. Racing staff are course, crude at times (but that has been seriously reined in over the last decade or so) sexist (yup! Soz but its true! Girls need to prove their just as good, if not better than the boys to get half a look in on a difficult horse) and generally have a wicked/dark/twisted sense of humour. I don't mean that we are all constantly abusing each other. We most certainly are not. I'd say about 15% of the time what comes out of our mouths would probably get us a disciplinary in any other walk of life. I refer to one of the lads as a Ginger Irish Leprechaun (and depending on how annoying he is being I may add a swear word in front of that). He thinks this is hilarious and is proud of his tag. If he got upset the first time I called him such I wouldn't do it again. You learn people's likes and dislikes.

Racing is what it is. And whilst yes there can sometimes be a slight bullying culture its no where near as bad as in other places of work. I've had phone calls from friends in other yards crying their eyes out because the boss has flayed them alive or the yard manager has gone to town on them as well because they are the youngest/newest/easiest target to take out their frustrations on and there's so few other staff as you don't need 10 members of staff for a 20 horse jumping yard. If you did that on a racing yard the rest of the staff would stick up for the kid against the abuser and give 5x as much back as they had given. There's plenty of staff to stand up for what it right.

It's a to and fro in the racing world. A dance if you will. You need a nimble mind and a sharp tongue at times. But mostly just a big broad smile and everyone knows it will all be OK.

 

[tda]

Racing is actually far more highly regulated than any other equine business. Apart from long days at the races (which for junior members of staff are few and far between to start with) you do generally work your set hours with 10-15mins leeway because animals don't know what the time is and you can't just walk out if it's not all done.

We work 40.5 hours a week (ish, as I say, it's animals but you wouldn't exceed an extra hour a week if your just yard/riding staff) and that is split over 6 days. We get a day and a half off every week. We start at 7am. Have a half hour break at either 9am or 10.30am depending on how many lots you ride at the first yard. Then lunch is 1-2pm-ish, it's an hour from when you finish to when you go back. Then we get done around 3.30pm, again give or take 10-15mins. Our half day we finish at 1-ish.

I know not every racing yard works like this and unless you are going racing your not being flogged about here there and everywhere at all times of day and night. I have heard plenty of horror stories come out of dressage, jumping, eventing and polo yards.

That sounds quite civilised who does the rest of the day/evening ?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

That sounds quite civilised who does the rest of the day/evening ?

That's us all done. One person at each yard goes back to feed at 9pm and we all take it in turns and do it once a week each. None of this split shift nonsense other yards do.

The only long hours are for those travelling.

 

[tda]

That's a good way of dealing with it. I'm guessing it's grooms who live in at other establishments who get a lot more hours put on them

 

[Tiddlypom]

There's an ad up on a local FB page looking for a part time summer only school leaver or uni student to work set hours on a yard 4 days a week. All good so far, except that the employee is required to have their own insurance.

No, that's not how it works. If you employ someone on regular hours (so not an ad hoc freelancer), you get them on your books and covered under on your yard insurance.

 

[honetpot]

I'm not trying to justify anything here BTW I am just saying it straight. You NEED to be able to take a ribbing, you NEED to be able to take a joke, you NEED to not be offended by a lot of things or at the very least you need to let it float straight over your head. Racing staff are course, crude at times (but that has been seriously reined in over the last decade or so) sexist (yup! Soz but its true! Girls need to prove their just as good, if not better than the boys to get half a look in on a difficult horse) and generally have a wicked/dark/twisted sense of humour. I don't mean that we are all constantly abusing each other. We most certainly are not. I'd say about 15% of the time what comes out of our mouths would probably get us a disciplinary in any other walk of life. I refer to one of the lads as a Ginger Irish Leprechaun (and depending on how annoying he is being I may add a swear word in front of that). He thinks this is hilarious and is proud of his tag. If he got upset the first time I called him such I wouldn't do it again. You learn people's

Just no.
I left school at sixteen to work with horses, £3 a week and last horses a 22.00, six days a week. When I became a nurse I realised being a groom/ rider is actually not that hard work, really, and working with large groups of people under stress and being physically and mentally exhausted without being a ahole is normal, you can have fun, but not at someone else's expense. I have woken at 5.30 walked two miles to work, and worked ten days in a row,( yes it sounds like the Monty Python sketch) for at the time not much money working on wards where lifting was the norm because there was then no equipment available, so it was graft, with a smile. There is nothing cruder than cleaning up body fluids, out every orifice, far worse then horse ****, but you do not have to be crude about it. Oh, and many NHS staff punched , I have had my clothing ripped have been slapped, and verbally abused, when the majority of the front line staff are women, even in A&E. I bite or a kick from a horse I can brush off, but it's hard when someone you are trying to help is abusing you. The irony is my dad was pleased when I stopped working with horses, when really nursing was a rougher tougher job, if I told really what I had to do he would have wanted me to leave.
Hard work in difficult conditions does not make bad behaviour acceptable.

 

[Snowfilly]

I’ve worked in breeding yards, dealing yards and riding schools, as well as a bunch of other jobs.

Yards in general are a bit rough around the edges, and it helps to have a sense of humour. The jobs that left me in tears from bullying and constant abuses about my appearance were the council ones with a big salary and a warm desk; the yard work might have come with the odd less than kind nickname but I’ve been in the workforce for over 25 years now and only one non horse job was free of toxic colleagues and bullying. One one of the horse jobs was bad.

I’ve also worked far harder and longer in other jobs. Finish your evening feeds and you’re done for the day; finish your work, go home and you get an email saying your meeting tomorrow needs a presentation now and there goes your evening unless you want to be looking at a disciplinary.

It might be a case of the grass is always greener but I’ve done both, and I’d always choose the yard!

 

[toppedoff]

I think the main difference between racing and other disciplines is that it is generally a much larger workforce in a yard. Small yard have 20 horses, big yards 100+ so you are working with large numbers of people. 2/3 of them I would say come in at the under 25 bracket. What you do need in racing is a thick skin. Not only because you need to tough out the injuries to the horses you love but you need to give as good as you get with the staff as well.

I'm not trying to justify anything here BTW I am just saying it straight. You NEED to be able to take a ribbing, you NEED to be able to take a joke, you NEED to not be offended by a lot of things or at the very least you need to let it float straight over your head. Racing staff are course, crude at times (but that has been seriously reined in over the last decade or so) sexist (yup! Soz but its true! Girls need to prove their just as good, if not better than the boys to get half a look in on a difficult horse) and generally have a wicked/dark/twisted sense of humour. I don't mean that we are all constantly abusing each other. We most certainly are not. I'd say about 15% of the time what comes out of our mouths would probably get us a disciplinary in any other walk of life. I refer to one of the lads as a Ginger Irish Leprechaun (and depending on how annoying he is being I may add a swear word in front of that). He thinks this is hilarious and is proud of his tag. If he got upset the first time I called him such I wouldn't do it again. You learn people's likes and dislikes.

Racing is what it is. And whilst yes there can sometimes be a slight bullying culture its no where near as bad as in other places of work. I've had phone calls from friends in other yards crying their eyes out because the boss has flayed them alive or the yard manager has gone to town on them as well because they are the youngest/newest/easiest target to take out their frustrations on and there's so few other staff as you don't need 10 members of staff for a 20 horse jumping yard. If you did that on a racing yard the rest of the staff would stick up for the kid against the abuser and give 5x as much back as they had given. There's plenty of staff to stand up for what it right.

It's a to and fro in the racing world. A dance if you will. You need a nimble mind and a sharp tongue at times. But mostly just a big broad smile and everyone knows it will all be OK.

Just started up on the racing (p2p) I'm on today, first thing the groom said is "We all take the piss out of each other but we don't mean it"

And the hours, since its p2p not alot of horses are in but roll into November (I think?) Gotta get there at 6am I need to start driving!

 

[Kunoichi73]

Good luck at the yard @toppedoff ! Hope it goes well and you enjoy it.

 

[toppedoff]

Good luck at the yard @toppedoff ! Hope it goes well and you enjoy it.

Thank you, I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said I was sick the night before because I was so scared, immediately felt comfortable when I met everybody. Now I just need to understand the Irish work rider and Welsh jockeys (Aka the boss) accents

 

[Kunoichi73]

Glad it went well! The nerves are understandable.

You'll get the accents fairly quickly. Your ears just need to get tuned into them. Let us know how you're getting on.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Irish and Welsh are easy. Try having to converse with lads from the Borders

You'll be grand! This time of year is all about starring to get the horses fit so you will get fit with them.

One of our new starts got a bit of an awakening today as to just how we speak to each other

It is also good to establish the rules about falling off. Some yards you come off you bring in cake or biscuits or something. In ours you just have to put up with the slagging and ribbing until the next person does something stupid that tops it.

 

[SusieT]

Why is it acceptable for a yard full of men to be rude and crude? Why is it acceptable that only the 'hard' women can be accepted? Modern working life means that anyone who works as they should, achieves their work objectives (be it riding out 6 lots, mucking out etc) should be treated with respect. Anyone on the yard should be treated with respect. The old adage 'rough around the edge' is used too often as an excuse for rude, poorly mannered people. Unfortunately it often also comes with racism and sexism that should be being stamped out, not seen as a badge of honour or a trial anyone should have to get through in order to work in the industry. (and I have no skin in the game beyond challenging theories that previously all male workspaces should be allowed to continue being rude and crude to the detriment of (often) young people.

 

[toppedoff]

Irish and Welsh are easy. Try having to converse with lads from the Borders

You'll be grand! This time of year is all about starring to get the horses fit so you will get fit with them.

One of our new starts got a bit of an awakening today as to just how we speak to each other

It is also good to establish the rules about falling off. Some yards you come off you bring in cake or biscuits or something. In ours you just have to put up with the slagging and ribbing until the next person does something stupid that tops it.

The only rule I got told about any fall offs is to leg it to catch the horse before it goes through the fences and into the fields (like last time apparently..) I don't think I'm riding but certainly will be entertained with what may happen!

Though their new youngsters have made it known I should probably get steel toe cap wellies however, the youngsters will tell you that the hose looked like a snake