Just a rant - "is she insured"

[paddy555]

There is one equine vet (recently qualified) who doesn't include me in the conversation at all. She just tells me what she's going to do and what the longer term plan is.

I have no problem with my horse vets. I did change to a very good practice. I am included in the conversation all the way around as I follow them around the horse asking questions, eg last week with colic first thing vet did was take the pulse, I asked what it was. Everything else he tested I asked and we discussed. (not being intrusive to the vet or not trusting them just wanting to get a complete pic. as we went along. By the time we get to the end of the exam. I have a pretty good idea what is going on and where we are likely to be going before we discuss the options. The cost last week for 2 colic visits, one OOH, 2 rectals, one stomach tube, meds was £470. I thought that was pretty reasonable

Like honetpot I am direct and I know exactly what I want/will pay for rather than being unrealistic about the outcome.

I do however have the problem you describe with small animal vets. It is give it here and we will tell you what we are going to do. My cat has upper respiratory tract infection. I took him to the vets, 5 days antibiotics and loxicom £95. For 15 mins from going in to paying the bill and leaving with the meds that seems a lot compared to the horse which was a matter of life or death, the risk to the vet of trying to tube an unsedated horse and the time the vets spent with me plus 2 phone discussions.

 

[Landcruiser]

My vets' receptionist would have asked the question when taking the details to arrange the visit.

And then the receptionist would get it in the neck rather than the vet..

 

[LEC]

I don’t get the issue. I had an emergency call out on a 5yo horse over Easter. Was asked the question about insurance and I said no. We then discussed if I would pay for it to go to hospital for joint flushing and I said no. The horse wasn’t worth the £6k it would cost for joint flushing. It’s just a conversation and I am not sure why people get so offended about it. Btw said 5yo has survived and is slowly healing as it was still a £1200 bill as we just went to more effort to clean the wound as wouldn’t be going to hospital.

 

[HopOnTrot]

A perfectly sensible question although I’ve found my vets conscious of cost if they are insured or not.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And then the receptionist would get it in the neck rather than the vet..

Imho the conversation with the receptionist is just a straightforward q&a to confirm the details, Inc things like the address where the horse is kept. There is no need for anyone to 'get it in the neck'.

 

[piglet2001]

It is a perfectly normal and very sensible question to ask. I have found that vets are NOT looking to fleece you because you are insured but they are trying to look out for you as the client.

Firstly it is a good use of time to ask on arrival. They will be getting drugs, equipment and potentially putting on their boots/scrubs on arrival to your field/yard. The receptionist will have taken the initial details of your animals condition or they will have if on call after hours. Quite honestly I would not want them talking about insurance over the phone if I had one colicking, bleeding etc in the stable/field. By asking whilst getting sorted they have all the facts for when examining your horse/pony/pet. Examining a horse is a dangerous thing, particularly a horse in pain (from rectaling a horse with colic, suturing a wound or flexing an arthritic joint), when examining your horse your vet wants to concentrate on them, their safety and the handler’s safety, not wondering re insurance. After they have examined the horse they should then be able to give their findings and options.

Secondly insurance is a very valid question due to some insurance companies needing consulting or authorisation sort before treatment or consultation. If this is not sort they may not pay and you will then be liable for the bill. For example a lot of insurance companies will not pay out for ulcer treatment without a scope as there is no ‘diagnosis’ even if s horse responds well to trial treatment.

Finally please don’t forget that vets are highly skilled and this country has a vet shortage. They are already very overstretched and without sounding awful time is money. Compared to other professionals such a solicitors and doctors they do not charge a lot. It is important they are efficient to be able to see as many as possible and asking if you are insured as they open the stable door etc is efficiency.

Hope this might help. Please thank your vet, they do it for the love, not the money.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I don’t have an issue with this question at all. It’s usually followed by “ok so this is how much the treatment/investigation is looking to cost”. As somebody who doesn’t insure (or well didn’t, I now have the harry hall external injury cover), I really appreciate the heads up on costs before treatment. I didn’t know how much it would cost for my horse to receive a CT scan of his head until he needed one! (And actually it wasn’t as much as I thought). They provided me with outcomes and the cost of surgery if it would be required - he didn’t need it thankfully but had it needed it, it would have given me some time to prepare. I figure that they probably wouldn’t have needed to have gone into as much depth about cost if he was insured.

 

[smiggy]

First, you do a tough job and you are very much appreciated. My small animal vets are grand.

But the owner needs to know what the alternatives are before they can consider the financial issues. When you ask the question and they say "no" you are no further forward in knowing their financial issues. When you ask the question and they say "yes" you are no further forward in knowing whether they will accept the more expensive treatments for their pet (given that more expensive very often means more intrusive, more experimental, or something along those lines.)

By asking it early you risk giving the impression that you are one of the very small minority, but undoubtedly they do exist, of vets who will advocate treatment which isn't actually in the animals interests in order to increase the bill. For your own sake I'd advise presenting the options first and discussing the money second.
.

We will have to agree to disagree. I’ve done it this way for over thirty years and never had a single complaint and people ask to see me because I’m the one most likely to be both pragmatic and discuss all the financial options.
The yes option is useful in exactly the situation I outlined, and at the end of the day it’s all a discussion, I don’t dictate, just give options. When people say no , they usually say either “no , and finances are tight “ or “no, but money is not a consideration” and we can work from there.
I think maybe the difference is I’m geared towards helping people treat their pets in the best way within their budget , rather than trying to find what their budget is so that I can do every test under the sun and use it all up !

 

[Palindrome]

I am not insured but if I was I wouldn't see the point of the vet then telling me the cost of the different treatments, or even explaining all the different treatments. To be fair, even not being insured my vet has never gone through all the different treatments possibles, they just tell me what they think is best, it is then up to me to check how much it would cost if I want to go forward or to ask for an alternative if the price or treatment doesn't suit.
Vets are busy, there are plenty of horses who need them everyday, they don't have time to go into lengthy unneeded explanations. I think it's similar to a GP.

ETA: what they take time to do is check the horse's vitals (even if not related to the call), if I ask they will check teeth, paperwork, vaccinations, etc... so they aren't running from one call to another but they aren't faffing around either.

 

[ycbm]

I am not insured but if I was I wouldn't see the point of the vet then telling me the cost of the different treatments, or even explaining all the different treatments

In order to satisfy owners like me I'm afraid I want them to do it whether you want it or not.

Insured or not I don't give a vet carte blanche to treat my animals, I want a probability of outcome and a quality of life discussion no matter who is paying.
.

 

[Indy]

If it isn't my usual vet who I've known for 30 years, I normally pre-empt by saying 'he isn't insured' It just feels a much more pragmatic and proactive approach.

 

[paddy555]

I wouldn't see the point of the vet then telling me the cost of the different treatments, or even explaining all the different treatments.

perhaps I have misunderstood but why not want details of all different treatments. The treatment I would give to one horse may be very different to what I would give to another. There are lots of actual "that specific horse" factors to take into account.

 

[HopOnTrot]

I am not insured but if I was I wouldn't see the point of the vet then telling me the cost of the different treatments, or even explaining all the different treatments.

Really? Because when I see a NHS consultant we talk through all the treatment options, even though I'm not "paying" for it.

 

[splashgirl45]

When I took my dog in this year my vet went through the order of doing things, basically he said if we don’t get an answer the next step is x ray and depending on what we find could then be surgery. Insurance wasn’t mentioned but as he was going through the options he told me approximate price for VA each step… I do have insurance but even if I didn’t my decision of how far to go would depend on what’s best for my dog and not my bank account. I have credit cards if I didn’t have the funds. My last horse wasn’t insured but had everything she needed whatever the cost, which I why I had 3 very large credit card bills to pay off..

 

[SEL]

I don't mind the insurance question. In fact I recently got a bit tetchy with a small animal vet when they kept saying "gold standard would be ...." quite accusingly when I turned down some tests. In fact money wasn't the issue but I do go for quality over quantity of life with this specific cat irrespective of insurance.

I had the p taken with one of the horses during COVID though which still annoys me. It was a phone call where they asked if she was insured. I said she was but she's a happy hacker with pre existing issues so please be pragmatic and speak to me first before expensive investigations. They were not pragmatic and ran up a huge bill in my absence. The vet nurse telling me that I had a £5k insurance limit so not to worry nearly had me losing the plot. Limit was £3k per issue found and I had a high xs so uncovering a tonne of unnecessary stuff cost me a fortune and rendered the pony uninsurable.

**Rant over**

 

[Birker2020]

I was asked this about a colic horse last week.
The horse had nephrosplenic entrapment.

The first vet visit just established colic, the second after no improvement, the reason for it.

The vet said she was asking early on about my plans so we were all aware of the way forward. She also wanted to know as it would affect her treatment of him. That didn't mean whether it would be cheap or expensive treatment but what she would actually do to him.

The choices were surgery or fill him up with painkillers and hope he could sort it himself. If he was going for surgery she would, I guess, have limited the painkillers so the hospital could see the problem more clearly.



There was no way she could have looked at his notes (or my vet account) as it was an emergency call out out of hours and she didn't have time.

I'm not sure insurance status is mentioned on my notes. I have never given it.

Bailey had this twice, the choice was repeated tubing, lots of left handed lunging and an administration of phenylephrine before surgery was even considered. I think I said I wouldn't attempt surgery at her age so the question wasn't even asked of me. But I have been asked whether I am insured before and it irritates me.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

End of last year my boy, my favourite horse of all time had a colic attack. We had the vet out & he was examined and my wife & I had already made the decision that we wouldn't put him through the surgery. Oh, didn't say but he's 25 years old. After the examination we were told that he needed his internal organs 'putting back in place. He didn't need anything removing. When we were told that we changed our mind & he was taken off to the vets for surgery. Needless to say at 25 years old he isn't insured, when I looked at insuring there was little that he would be covered for. The vet said he'd be operated on that evening & we should be ok to come & see him the following lunchtime around 1.00pm. We had to leave a deposit on the operation of £1500 that evening. It was a very long night & next day we arrived to view him around 1.00pm. I sneaked across the yard to peek in his stable but he heard me coming. He was all bandaged around his middle but his eyes were bright & sparkling & he came to me for fuss. It was just like he'd had nothing done. He remained at the vets for a few days & then he came home. We looked after him & did everything the vet wanted us to do. He is now out & about, being hacked & enjoying life just as he was before. By the end we paid out around £7,500, I know it's a lot but It's the best money I've ever spent. It doesn't end for everyone like this & for thoase who lost their horses I'm truly sorry but it worked for us.

 

[meleeka]

End of last year my boy, my favourite horse of all time had a colic attack. We had the vet out & he was examined and my wife & I had already made the decision that we wouldn't put him through the surgery. Oh, didn't say but he's 25 years old. After the examination we were told that he needed his internal organs 'putting back in place. He didn't need anything removing. When we were told that we changed our mind & he was taken off to the vets for surgery. Needless to say at 25 years old he isn't insured, when I looked at insuring there was little that he would be covered for. The vet said he'd be operated on that evening & we should be ok to come & see him the following lunchtime around 1.00pm. We had to leave a deposit on the operation of £1500 that evening. It was a very long night & next day we arrived to view him around 1.00pm. I sneaked across the yard to peek in his stable but he heard me coming. He was all bandaged around his middle but his eyes were bright & sparkling & he came to me for fuss. It was just like he'd had nothing done. He remained at the vets for a few days & then he came home. We looked after him & did everything the vet wanted us to do. He is now out & about, being hacked & enjoying life just as he was before. By the end we paid out around £7,500, I know it's a lot but It's the best money I've ever spent. It doesn't end for everyone like this & for thoase who lost their horses I'm truly sorry but it worked for us.

How long was the box rest? I think that’s the deciding factor for most people with oldies, especially when they are a bit arthritic anyway.

 

[suestowford]

Mine was 22 with a long history of colic. I was given the option of a referral for surgery but decided not to; given his history I didn't rate his chances. As it was an emergency, it wasn't his regular vet, she had never seen him before. He was uninsurable, for colic at least, but that question never came up once. We were all more concerned with getting his pain under control.
I did get a chance to talk it over with his regular vet, some time afterwards and she too thought his chances of surviving surgery and recovery would have been slim to nothing. After that I felt I could make peace with my decision to pts rather than send him for surgery.

 

[paddy555]

sort of joining the rant. Had 2 animals needed a 6 month prescription check. That seems to be something of a way to print money.
Vet visited us. Happy to pay the call out charge. One looked at from 6 feet away (for a reason) and I am happy to pay that prescription charge as I asked for that distance. No advice, no comments and no reason at all why the existing meds wouldn't be continued.

The other was a 40yo pony. In a pen and vet was walking past anyway. He didn't go into the pen, pony not haltered, just basically noted she was still alive, no exam, he didn't touch her, made no suggestions etc just said she could have more prascend for another 6m.

prescription charge was £20 for each. So for the pony it was £20 for basically 2 mins looking at her over a gate. Her meds were never likely to change, I wasn't asking for any advice etc.

So for vet time that was approx 5/6 mins for £40. I realise they are required to do prescription checks but £20 an animal to just say yes you can continue to buy the same drugs from us galls a bit.
Nothing against my favourite vet the practice sets the charges.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And tbf DEFRA set the 6 months limit on repeat prescriptions, afaik

 

[paddy555]

And tbf DEFRA set the 6 months limit on repeat prescriptions, afaik

yes I do realise that.