Just goes to show you cannot trust a dog all the time :(

He's licking his lips then turns his face away - to me (and perhaps I'm misreading it) he's actually saying 'I don't like this, I'm uncomfortable with this'. To get your face into a dogs face like that can also be very disconcerting for the dog - I would never do it to a strange dog. The head is not somewhere I tend to stroke strange dogs either - my trainer calls it 'the sacred zone'. Better to let the dog sniff your closed fist and come to you, not go to it.

I'm not blaming the anchor mind you, many people would have done as she did quite unknowingly.
 
My son was taught from a very early age not to put his face close to dogs and I have told many kids this when they have done it to Cara, not that i don't trust her but i am not going to put her in this position. You would have thought that the handler would have told the presenter to move back a bit, not very smart and not something I would do with a dogo argentinian, there is a reason why they are banned here. Hope the dog isn't penalised for this, the article says that the owner has been charged and the dog in quarantine as he hasn't had rabies shots.
 
I thought the poor dog was stressed and having a stranger shove her face into his obviously made him even more uncomfortable, hence the snap. I have no doubt that a dog that size could have inflicted serious damage had he been serious.

It amazes me how many people think that the way to hello to a strange dog is to stick your face next to it. MY OH never had dogs before being with me and always does it with ours when they first come to us (and our rescues), no matter what their size. I have told him he is one day going to regret doing it, but he still does it.

I hope the dog isn't pts because of this, poor thing looked scared stiff, not aggressive.
 
The dog did appear under a lot of stress/pressure, lots of people, an enclosed space, no escape, bright lights etc.
However a dog of this size and strength does have the ability to do a lot of damage and that coupled with nervousness/stress would lead me to think PTS would not be the worst option.
 
Not many people can effectively read dogs body language, the dogs was panting which could be an idicator of stress or it could have been the studio lights. Yes the dog licked its lips and looked away but perhaps there were other signals we couldnt see. As it stands it was quite a subtle move by the dog in licking its licks and looking away and I saw it more as a snap rather than a bite. Because of the size and breed of the dog it is always going to cause more damage.

She did the right thing in getting down to the dogs level but why oh why did she put her face close to a strange dog, that is a real invasion of a dogs private space.
 
CaveCanem said:
The dog did appear under a lot of stress/pressure, lots of people, an enclosed space, no escape, bright lights etc.
However a dog of this size and strength does have the ability to do a lot of damage and that coupled with nervousness/stress would lead me to think PTS would not be the worst option.
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Do you think that being in a one off stressful situation which made the dog react in a way which might be totally out of character warrants pts? Of course if the dog has shown other signs of aggression then pts would probably be the best option for the poor lad.

I think if I was in a studio with strange people, and was hot, bothered and a bit nervous I would punch someone if they stuck their face up to mine. And I am the least violent person you could imagine :D

ETA: Not being arsey, just wondered :D
 
Blimey :( I really don't think that most ordinary people would have been able to read that the dog was stressed enough to snap like that. To most people (me included) the dog would look essentially relaxed and happy. There was no warning growl or raised lips (that I saw, at least), and to my mind any dog that bites without clear warning is unsafe, and pts a sensible option. Sorry :(
 
The thing is, the dog did use its body language to communicate discomfort. Not that every dog that felt uncomfortable like that would snap of course. But the signs were there. It's no wonder things go wrong really, sometimes the dogs try to tell us something is up but we just aren't listening.:(

People need to make it their business to learn about this IMO, if they want to spend time with dogs and especially own dogs and be in charge of them, because it's not like dogs are about to start speaking English.
 
See I don't think that dog looks in discomfort. Thats the face Brax pulls when he's being fussed/stroked under the chin!

100% think that dog should be put down.
 
No doubt he did display his stress Spudlet, it's just that I don't think that it was clear enough for most humans to read. Certainly I am honest enough to admit that I cannot see it, and like Cedars think that he looked rather like my daft dogs do when they are enjoying being fussed. I can tell when mydogs are stressed, both because I know them well and because they make it very clear.
 
We didn't have dogs growing up but we were always taught not to put our faces near a dogs face.
My sister got bitten on the nose by my nannas neighbers dog when we were little. My mum just said " what were you doing with your face that close to the dog" No real harm was done and we lurnt a vaulable lesson.

I think the dog looks stressed although i'm no expert and agree she shouldn't have gone to kiss him.
 
Broodle said:
No doubt he did display his stress Spudlet, it's just that I don't think that it was clear enough for most humans to read. Certainly I am honest enough to admit that I cannot see it, and like Cedars think that he looked rather like my daft dogs do when they are enjoying being fussed. I can tell when mydogs are stressed, both because I know them well and because they make it very clear.
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But my point is, that when you learn to ride, you are supposedly taught how to read a horse's body language but no one ever teaches people how to read a dog, which means that unless the dogs are pretty much shouting often the messages they are trying to give are ignored. Another example is dogs at events and shows - some of them are very stressed to my eyes, but their owners often seem totally oblivious. I see clients sometimes doing things that stress their dogs out without even knowing (and I explain to them what the signs are and why they are displaying them) - because people just assume, sometimes, that as long as the dog isn't really obviously stressed then it must be fine and don't pick up on more subtle appeasing signals, like lip licking for example, or nervous yawning.

I did say that I didn't blame the lady as many people would not have picked up on those signs, but that doesn't mean they weren't there (IMO anyway).
 
I don't disagree Spudlet, and the puppy training classes I attended never touched on body language at all. But I still think there wasn't enough warning from that dog before he bit, and that makes him dangerous.
 
Cedars said:
See I don't think that dog looks in discomfort. Thats the face Brax pulls when he's being fussed/stroked under the chin!

100% think that dog should be put down.
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Put the dog down, by all means, but understand that it wasn't the fault of the dog. It was surrounded by idiots.

Spudlet said:
The thing is, the dog did use its body language to communicate discomfort.
........because it's not like dogs are about to start speaking English.
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Quite, (excellent!!). The warning signs were there, and the idiot on the other end of the lead should have recognised them. Idiocy personified :D.

Broodle said:
Blimey :( I really don't think that most ordinary people would have been able to read that the dog was stressed enough to snap like that. To most people (me included) the dog would look essentially relaxed and happy. There was no warning growl or raised lips (that I saw, at least), and to my mind any dog that bites without clear warning is unsafe, and pts a sensible option. Sorry :(
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Really? Of the last 20 dogs which I've had, I'd have expected half to behave as the dog in the vid.

The dog in the vid was trying to apologise, and for something which it hadn't done. The presenter, in her ignorance, pushed her face down to the dog, threatened it, and got herself bitten.

I see a huge insurance claim!! ;)

Alec.
 
I agree with Spudlet here, there is a whole wider issue here, a hell of a lot of people cannot tell when the dog at the end of the lead, is stressed or under pressure.
As mentioned, that, when coupled with a large, strong dog, can end in disaster.
 
I'm not commenting on what should happen to the dog because it's only a very short clip. Had it been a smaller, less powerful dog I doubt the results of that snap would have been so serious, but sadly it is a big strong dog and the lady has suffered as a result:(. The owner didn't seem aware of the dog's body language which is more concerning to me, as I think if you're going to have such a large and powerful dog, you should be able to read it.

We don't cover body language in classes because it's a big subject and we don't have the time, but if I see a dog looking worried by something its owner does, I'll gently point it out to them. Most of them are fine and not stressed doglets at all.:)
 
It had to be a dogo didn't it. *pulls pissy lemon sucking face*

That dog was clearly unhappy and even if it wasn't - even if it was rolling around in gay abandon you never, ever get that close to a strange dogs face. Where could it have escaped to? What could it do?? I'd have been really unhappy with a strangers face that close let alone my dogs.

We wont go in to a whole post about the dogo and where it came from and how it's bred (I've done that before and no-one really noticed what I was getting at :) but what I will say is I don't feel that dog should be put down, I think a grown woman should have more sense.
 
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It's really interesting to see that I don't see what you more experienced people see in that vid, and shows how ignorant I am when it comes to reading dogs :o (that's not sarcastic btw, I mean it!). Are there any good books or other resources on this subject?
 
I thought he looked uncomfy before then but it's so hard to explain, he just doesn't look calm then, if you pause it at 22 you do see the dog show teeth, he's warning her - we'll never know if she stopped/recoiled at that moment whether it would have snapped - but she didn't, she moved in for the "happy valentines day" kiss...and got more than she bargained for.
 
You don't flubble the chops of a strange dog and then smush your face against his, any dog would find that intimidating, never mind one which was looking away and looking uncomfortable with her mauling its face anyway. :(

That said there are lots of aspects of dog body language that the general public aren't aware of, there's a good few I'm only recently learning to recognise myself, Ricoh has turned out to be a classic fearfully aggressive dog but a bystander would be forgiven for thinking he was plain aggressive. Things like head turning, shaking themselves out after a stressful situation etc. took me ages to recognise for what they are.
 
Watching the video of the GS I could see what was going to happen a mile off. That was body language I understand, however, not that I would ever shove my ugly mug into an unknown dogs face, infact not even my own. I have to admit that I cant read the body language as well on the first video. To me the GS looks openly nervous. I can see it in his eyes and his body but I just cant see that in the Dogo. I see a dog panting in the studio lights. I accept this is lack of knowledge on my part.
 
Spudlet said:
The thing is, the dog did use its body language to communicate discomfort. Not that every dog that felt uncomfortable like that would snap of course. But the signs were there. It's no wonder things go wrong really, sometimes the dogs try to tell us something is up but we just aren't listening.:(

People need to make it their business to learn about this IMO, if they want to spend time with dogs and especially own dogs and be in charge of them, because it's not like dogs are about to start speaking English.
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this

she was stupid getting into the dogs face....but sad outcome for both dog and presenter.
 
The dog did warn just before the snap, as soon as she started to lean in he froze, his eyes changed, and he snarled. He didn't have time to do any more, he had nowhere else to go because he was backed against the sofa with his collar being held, he wasn't heard, so he snapped to tell her to get lost. I bet most of the damage was due to the proximity and bashing of teeth on face rather than intentional damage - I wouldn't call that a bite at all, it was a snap. If she hadn't been so close it probably would have simply been an air snap, but then if she hadn't been so close it would never have happened. Not the dog's fault by any means.

Adopting a deaf dog who sadly learned to use his teeth with no warning whatsoever because no-one listened to him growling/snarling/air snapping teaches you an awful lot about reading dogs, and I agree wholeheartedly with those who comment how little most dog owners really read and understand their dogs. I wish her a quick recovery, but I hope she learns her lesson and goes on to use her position to educate people in how strange dogs SHOULD be handled.
 
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