just got bitten through my lip by my dog....

ChesnutsRoasting

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Right. You come and hug me quite suddenly. I have a pain in my back. As I am a human being and I can talk, I say 'ouch, please don't touch me in that spot, it really hurts'.

Dogs, because they do not reason or communicate like us, defend themselves from unseen pain in the only way they know how.
She did not 'go nasty'.
Do you really think that a geriatric terrier is trying to get one over on you, rise above you in rank, knows what a 'place' is, hurt you for the sake of it?

You were on AAD a few months ago telling us about your wonderful old friend, a family pet for many years (she is a great age isn't she? 15 or 16?) please don't forget that.

^^^^^This^^^^^^

& show your mum this page. She might learn something.
 

PonyIAmNotFood

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My dogs a total old man too, never bitten or threatened someone in his life, then of recent if you try to cuddle him or stroke him unexpectedly he turns on you. Not his fault if arthritis makes it uncomfortable for him to be cuddled, or if lack of senses make him be on his guard a lot of the time. We know now not to do those things and as a result no one gets bitten, and the dog is perfectly comfortable and cheerful. You said she's been narky with you for a few weeks, this should have put you off the cuddle really lol, never mind.

Glad you're ok though, try bio oil on the wound once it's healed, it stops scarring.
 

quirky

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Similar thing happened to me and my Nan's dog when I was about 7.

Cher, the aged poodle was sat one end of the sofa, she had cataracts, so eye sight was impaired. As I sat at next to her, as I had many times, she leapt up and bit me. She went through my top lip.
Unfortunately, my Nan disliked hospitals, so a plaster by her sufficed.
When my Mum fetched me the next day, we went to the doctor and although too late for treatment, antibiotics were given. I have a not too nasty scar to this day.

From then on, I treated the dog with a little more respect and although we still had cuddles, it was on her terms, when she wanted to, other than that, Ileft her to her own devices and never startled her again. Lesson learnt :).

Try not to punish your old dog. If you are frightened of her, stay away from her but if you aren't and she wants to interact with you, then I think you should do so.
 

mymare

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Poor auld dog. You wonder what's going through their minds, and wish they could communicate their aches and pains to us. They deserve so much TLC and respect, and also thanks for all the years of love, companionship and enjoyment they've given us.

Hope your Mum's not being too hard on the poor soul.
 

brighteyes

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She may well be starting with canine dementia - a sad and irreversible condition where the dog slowly leaves this world mentally and ends up living in a very lonely world where only they exist and nothing around them seems familiar or makes sense any longer. Their body remains fit and looks normal but they forget everything and go through bizarre and very upsetting phases indeed - like forgetting who you are and declining any sort of physical contact from those they used to love dearly. I never want to go through losing a dog to dementia EVER again.

Awful. I feel for little Winnie and I think you should be a little more understanding.
 

Bay_Beasty

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Just to Clarify, I have done NOTHING to the dog, NOTHING, I growled at her last night after mum told me too, and that is it. Winnie is forgiven. by me and my mum, she is currently begging for her after dinner snack. Very happy, punshment free.

What I asked was has anyone given their dog vivitonin and there dog has done this. We have recently put her on this, in the last 3 weeks and she has become growly at me, we think this is a factor as to why she bit.
 

CorvusCorax

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CC I didnt just suddenly pick her up and she bit me, I was cuddling her, as I usually do, and she was lying in my arms and then as I say I think went to play and missed.

I have just forgiven her, we had big cuddles and she tucked her head into my chest, I do love my dog, but I am also a bit warry (sp) of her now, yes she is old and yes she is athritichy and etc, but I know this and I also know her sore spots and I don't touch or aggrivate them.

It was just a for instance/an example/me surmising. Even the thought or fear that she was under some sort of threat of pain would be enough for some dogs.
FI I know a bloke that hates being touched in the neck and if a hand even comes near his neck he will flinch and tell you to back off.

Glad you are friends again.
 

Bay_Beasty

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I am going to keep her on the floor from now on, we all are, if she has cuddles, they are on the floor or on the sofa if she has been lifted up. Your right CC I think that me picking her and cuddling her in my arms might possibly of hurt somewhere. And you saw her pics, I couldnt stay mad at her for lone, esp when she looked at me when I was cuddling her and clearly said, I am very sorry, and that was entirely on her terms, I sat next to her and she came and sat on my lap and pressed her head into my chest.
 

zoelouisem

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I am in no way condoning telling a dog off the next day as many have said thye do not know what the punishment is for.

But i have to say the dog should not bite under circumstances, if it had been any bigger than a terrier the outcome could have been even worse than stitches or alot more and a nastiier scar.

I have a 14 year old terrier and a daughter, and she would under no circumstances bite my daughter or me, pain or not!!! even been a small dog! Dogs do have pecking orders as they would in a pack in the wild and in a family home they are the bottem of the pack biting people is wrong. Terrier or not.Imagine if that was a rotweiller who even at an old age people would be shouting dangerous dog, put it to sleep!!!

If my dog bit my daughter and she had to have stitiches to be hinest i would seriously consider putting to sleep as sad as it is!!

Unless the op did something nasty or cruell (not saying she did) this behaviour is wrong and its not her fault!!
 

Abandluc

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Can I just ask people's opinon on something??

If the OP was a small child what would be your answer to the situation? Would you suggest trying to keep the dog and child separate, would you think it unfair/fair to PTS the dog if you couldn't 100% keep them separate?

I'm just interested as I'm worried my boxer may start to go this way and really really don't know what I'd do for the best/to be fair to both animal and dog??
 

Pearlsasinger

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Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go back to your vet and explain that Winnie's character has changed since being put on this medication. This can happen with people as well as with dogs on various medication. My lab was put on anti-convulsive medication. It changed her personality so much I decided that we would cope with the seizures. She lived a very long and happy life, having a seizure approximately once a month.
What is Winnie's medication for? Could it have made her very sensitive to being touched?
I understand that in your OP you were feeling shocked and in pain but please tell us that you will not be coming down first and refusing to feed a dog who has been used to being fed by you? How do you think the dog will cope with this? Will she understand that it is because she bit you when you were cuddling her?
 

CorvusCorax

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But i have to say the dog should not bite under circumstances, if it had been any bigger than a terrier the outcome could have been even worse than stitches or alot more and a nastiier scar.

I have a 14 year old terrier and a daughter, and she would under no circumstances bite my daughter or me, pain or not!!! even been a small dog! Dogs do have pecking orders as they would in a pack in the wild and in a family home they are the bottem of the pack biting people is wrong. Terrier or not.Imagine if that was a rotweiller who even at an old age people would be shouting dangerous dog, put it to sleep!!!

If my dog bit my daughter and she had to have stitiches to be hinest i would seriously consider putting to sleep as sad as it is!!

Unless the op did something nasty or cruell (not saying she did) this behaviour is wrong and its not her fault!!

No one is saying it is the OP's fault.

I recommend you read a book by a woman called Jane Donaldson, called 'The Culture Clash'.
People humanising dogs, imbuing them with emotions and reasoning and thought patterns that they just DON'T have and throwing around pack theories has a lot to answer for.
Mostly people with bite injuries, dogs being abandoned in rescue centres and a lot of dead dogs.

I'm not talking about the OP here but I am lucky to have never been badly bitten, IE broken skin, by a dog.
But in every single case where a dog's teeth have met with a part of my body, it was my own fault and I am big enough to admit that.
 

*hic*

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Can I just ask people's opinon on something??

If the OP was a small child what would be your answer to the situation? Would you suggest trying to keep the dog and child separate, would you think it unfair/fair to PTS the dog if you couldn't 100% keep them separate?

I'm just interested as I'm worried my boxer may start to go this way and really really don't know what I'd do for the best/to be fair to both animal and dog??

Let me start by telling you that I've never been that fond of dogs as a species and that one of my nephews was bitten in the face as a two year old in an unexplainable attack by what was considered to be a very reliable family pet. The boy has had to have numerous operations since then. This was 20 years ago. The incident split the family over those who thought the dog should be pts and those who thought "poor Sweepy" should be forgiven. Eventually Sweep was forgiven but he then went on to bite his owner badly and she decided that pts was the best idea.

IMHO if you have a small child, it is unlikely that you will be able to keep it and the dog apart. If you ANY have doubts about the dog's reliability then the dog should be pts.
 

Bay_Beasty

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@ Pearlsinger, Winnie was on it after she became v sleepy, well she had been for nearly a year, and so the vet said try the drug, mum has just informed me she has halved the dose. I feed whin roughly once a week often going to feed my friends horse first, whinnie knows this and is happy to wait for my return, she usually gets fed by my dad who is up first, and expects him to feed her not me. I said that when angry and TBH scared of my dog, and thought I should take a step back from her care, so that our relationship lessened for her ake and for mine.

@abandluc, if this had been a child or some one else, the law would of made us put whinning down, regardless of reason, I have warned mum against this and we all no what could of been here, we dont have young children around our house very often, and when we do, we put whinnie away, as she isnt used to children now that we are all grown up and as I have said is old, and I would feel terrible if she damaged one of my cousins. Hence we put her in one of the rooms in the house and let her out for a wee every hour.

@ZLM I didnt do anything nasty or cruel, unless cuddling the dog is cruel, and yes I know whinnie is a terrier and could of taken half my face off if she tried, or had not let go, dont want to think about that, and yes if she was a bigger dog, I think we would be having her PTS. I suggested it to M and D last night and both laughed it off and then went silent. I think they both realised the What If then, and I think this is why my mum told whin off today when I got home (she had been fine with whinnie all morning), no its not right to tell her off again, but I cant really blame my mum for doing it as I know why she did., becauase she didnt want it to happen again. I wouldnt of done it, but its done know, and its all forgotten.

We all know that if this was a worse bite, or had been on a child or some one who was not in the family, whinnie would no longer be here. thats the law, its there for a reason, having a friend who has a very scarred arm from a very serious attack from a staffy and has serious complications with feeling loss and also needing a lot of councelling, I understand the importance of that law all to well.
 

amage

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OP our ancienct Springer got VERY cranky on Vivitonin. We took her off it and she lived the rest of her days on Metacam for her arthritis and another drops to help control her bladder issues. We found upping her arthritis med (on Vet advice) helped her feel much better in herself and our vet was of the opinion that nature would take her long before the increased dosage could damage her liver. She lived to about 17/18, until she could no longer walk comfortably...she could swim and swam in the sea the morning she was pts but was refusing to eat and told us enough was enough. anywho like I said Vivitonin did not work for us
 

CorvusCorax

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QR I think it is also important to add that all dogs have the potential to bite, even ones that have lived happily in family homes for many years.
I think if I said (surmising again!!!) 'my dog would never bite anyone, even if he was confused or in pain or had an unknown medical condition or a personality-changing brain tumour or drugs, or he thought a person was coming to do him or me harm, or he thought that squealing child was an injured animal, he is below me in the pecking order and he KNOWS right from wrong', I think I'd be deluding myself.

Big, small, old, young, they have a set of teeth, they communicate in their own way and we should always be aware of that.
 

zoelouisem

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@ZLM I didnt do anything nasty or cruel, unless cuddling the dog is cruel, and yes I know whinnie is a terrier and could of taken half my face off if she tried, or had not let go, dont want to think about that, and yes if she was a bigger dog, I think we would be having her PTS. I suggested it to M and D last night and both laughed it off and then went silent. I think they both realised the What If then, and I think this is why my mum told whin off today when I got home (she had been fine with whinnie all morning), no its not right to tell her off again, but I cant really blame my mum for doing it as I know why she did., becauase she didnt want it to happen again. I wouldnt of done it, but its done know, and its all forgotten.

.

Oh no i wasnt accusing you of been nasty as all i saw that you were only cuddling her. I was saying that it not acceptable for a dog to bite somebody unless they were been nasty and it was the dogs only defence!
I was getting angry with people saying that the dog is probaly sore and aching and that its ok for the dog to bite then. Dogs should night be biting owners or other family members i can symathise with your mum for been angry she probaly regrets more than anybody the late puishment

Yes you are right that your lucky she is a small dog and your grown up not a young child as the situation could have been a whole lot worse. Hope your face heels quickly.:)
 

Sarah Sum1

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Glad you're ok OP. It must be hard for animals because they can't communicate with us. :(

ETA Can you soeak to vet regarding the meds she is on, sounds as though it doesn't agree with her.
 

Bay_Beasty

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@CC I have been bitten as a child by one of our old dogs, an airdale who was jealous of me (I was 2) he was not PTS but then again different laws existed, now he would of been, I have a v tiny scar from that. I think it was my fault, but I was 2 so cant really tell. This bite was I think, half and half, I should not of picked her up as I did, but then again I really do think the drugs are making her cranky, hence we have halfed the dose.
 

CorvusCorax

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I was getting angry with people saying that the dog is probaly sore and aching and that its ok for the dog to bite then. Dogs should night be biting owners or other family members i can symathise with your mum for been angry she probaly regrets more than anybody the late puishment

Get angry all you like.
If you can point me to where I said it was 'ok' for the dog to bite her?
See the way we are all writing to each other and understanding exactly every little nuance?
Dogs can't do that. They're not human beings.
 

zoelouisem

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Get angry all you like.
If you can point me to where I said it was 'ok' for the dog to bite her?
See the way we are all writing to each other and understanding exactly every little nuance?
Dogs can't do that. They're not human beings.

Yes i know they cant communticate in the way humans can. But if every dog that was in pain and was touched or whatever in a certain way bit people then wed clearly have problems. the op has said that she didnt startle her she was on her lap already having a cuddle. I do not think it acceptable for the dog to bite her!

Im not angry at people opinions i just feel that the op (being through a quite tramatic evening was getting the blame for this and then the dog condoned for biting her when she didnt startle ect her?
 

Bay_Beasty

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Get angry all you like.
If you can point me to where I said it was 'ok' for the dog to bite her?
See the way we are all writing to each other and understanding exactly every little nuance?
Dogs can't do that. They're not human beings.

CC don't leave this thread, you have been very clear on your thoughts and opinions and have not at any point said it was OK for whinnie to bite me, what you disagreed with, which is a fair point, is whinnie being told off today and you wanted calrifaction for this action, which in some way I think I have given you.
 

Bay_Beasty

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Im not angry at people opinions i just feel that the op (being through a quite tramatic evening was getting the blame for this and then the dog condoned for biting her when she didnt startle ect her?

Dont worry ZLM if I wanted a load of sympathy I would of posted a pic of my lip, its seriously attractive. :D :p This is an open forum, people are entitled to say what they think, wether you agree with them or not is down to you.
 
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Sarah Sum1

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I completely understand where CC is coming from. In my opinion she knows a lot about dogs and their behaviour. Not once has she said it was ok for the dog to bite. Nor was she blaming the OP for the dog biting.
 

Bay_Beasty

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OP our ancienct Springer got VERY cranky on Vivitonin. We took her off it and she lived the rest of her days on Metacam for her arthritis and another drops to help control her bladder issues. We found upping her arthritis med (on Vet advice) helped her feel much better in herself and our vet was of the opinion that nature would take her long before the increased dosage could damage her liver. She lived to about 17/18, until she could no longer walk comfortably...she could swim and swam in the sea the morning she was pts but was refusing to eat and told us enough was enough. anywho like I said Vivitonin did not work for us

Thank you amage, whinnie is on lots or pain killers and antiinflams and often on anti b's as well for her awful gums (she had terrible teeth when we got her and has since had nearly half of them removed). Perhaps we do need to up her dose of anti inflams. we are reducing the vivitonin to half a day instead on one, but I will ring the vet on monday and take her in and chat to them about it, and their opinions on it too.
 

PonyIAmNotFood

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Ok, before I start I wanna say that a dog biting is not ok, and is dangerous, however you have to look at the circumstances.

Someone said it's not ok if they do it as a reaction to pain or shock. While this is true, when a horse starts bucking, bronking, rearing and other dangerous reactive behaviour, we stop doing whatever causes them to do that and get the pain sorted, usually (hopefully) without punishment after the situation has occurred. This dog has reacted to whatever she didnt like by letting the person know she didn't like it, all be it a severe reaction. Surely instead of people suggesting she's put to sleep, potential problems and treatments could be suggested, in the mean time refraining from cuddling as that seemed to be what caused the reaction?

That may not make sense btw...i'm tired :):)
 

zoelouisem

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I think people have got the wrong end of the stick of my post, yes the dog is in pain or aching, yes the cant commuticate with us but not its not ok for dogs to bite people the bigger dogs can cause serious damage!

My dog has arthritis is something hurts or shes tood on or caused pain (i dont go round hurting my dogs these are examples) She would yelp jump away her immediate reaction isnt to bit somebody!

CC i wasnt saying that a dog with a brain tomour or serious pain wouldnt bite, if it did i stated what options there would be. My dog wouldnt just bite somebody ive had her for 14 years and she hasnt yet, if she did i would then look into what was causing this as i wouldnt have a biting dog living with my 6 year old daughter. If something serious caused this then would either treat or PTS if the condition was serious.

I just thought the Op was kind of ambushed. When she needed a few kind words and some advice!
 
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