just got bitten through my lip by my dog....

Sarah Sum1

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I think people have got the wrong end of the stick of my post, yes the dog is in pain or aching, yes the cant commuticate with us but not its not ok for dogs to bite people the bigger dogs can cause serious damage!

My dog has arthritis is something hurts or shes tood on or caused pain (i dont go round hurting my dogs these are examples) She would yelp jump away her immediate reaction isnt to bit somebody!

CC i wasnt saying that a dog with a brain tomour or serious pain wouldnt bite, if it did i stated what options there would be. My dog wouldnt just bite somebody ive had her for 14 years and she hasnt yet, if she did i would then look into what was causing this as i wouldnt have a biting dog living with my 6 year old daughter. If something serious caused this then would either treat or PTS if the condition was serious.

I just thought the Op was kind of ambushed. When she needed a few kind words and some advice!

But the dog is elderly, so in theory may not have all her facultys(sp).(like when my elderly nan shouts horrible things! because she has dementia) Not that I know, just glad OP wasn't badly hurt :)
 

Bay_Beasty

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Ok, before I start I wanna say that a dog biting is not ok, and is dangerous, however you have to look at the circumstances.

Someone said it's not ok if they do it as a reaction to pain or shock. While this is true, when a horse starts bucking, bronking, rearing and other dangerous reactive behaviour, we stop doing whatever causes them to do that and get the pain sorted, usually (hopefully) without punishment after the situation has occurred. This dog has reacted to whatever she didnt like by letting the person know she didn't like it, all be it a severe reaction. Surely instead of people suggesting she's put to sleep, potential problems and treatments could be suggested, in the mean time refraining from cuddling as that seemed to be what caused the reaction?

That may not make sense btw...i'm tired :):)

Thanks, I have at no point said that whinnie is being PTS for it, but I suggested it to my parents as if this happened to someone else then she would of had to of been. As I have also said, I think the vivitonin is making her grumpy, hence why she bit, as normally if someone pokes where it hurts (she has done this to the vet) she goes for the hand where it is poking but never makes contact, its just to say OW that hurt.
 

zoelouisem

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But the dog is elderly, so in theory may not have all her facultys(sp).(like when my elderly nan shouts horrible things! because she has dementia) Not that I know, just glad OP wasn't badly hurt :)

Yer i totaly get that, theres obvioulsy a problem there, and that needs invistigating. It cant carry on, as shes said they think its due to the medication, so there going to try halving it.
I was not suggesting she get it PTS but a dog cant go round biting people, as you said your glad she wasnt seriously hurt, next time she may not be so lucky!
 

Bay_Beasty

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But the dog is elderly, so in theory may not have all her facultys(sp).(like when my elderly nan shouts horrible things! because she has dementia) Not that I know, just glad OP wasn't badly hurt :)

Whinnie hasnt got Dementia, not everyone that is old gets dementia, she has been very sleepy of late(past 6 months is) so the vet suggested giving her vivitonin, which I and my family now think has caused her to become grumpy hence the bite.

As to the bite, I will live, but my face is now marred. Yes I am probably being pathetic, I was in no way a great beauty, but I will forever be left with a scar on my face, which will be a constant reminder of the lesson I learned, and of whinnie too, but being young, not married etc etc i cant help but think, esp when my friend just called me and asked what it looked like and then went very quiet when I told him, that it will affect my life. Oh well, life is what happens while you make plans.
 

Sarah Sum1

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Whinnie hasnt got Dementia, not everyone that is old gets dementia, she has been very sleepy of late(past 6 months is) so the vet suggested giving her vivitonin, which I and my family now think has caused her to become grumpy hence the bite.

As to the bite, I will live, but my face is now marred. Yes I am probably being pathetic, I was in no way a great beauty, but I will forever be left with a scar on my face, which will be a constant reminder of the lesson I learned, and of whinnie too, but being young, not married etc etc i cant help but think, esp when my friend just called me and asked what it looked like and then went very quiet when I told him, that it will affect my life. Oh well, life is what happens while you make plans.

No I appreciate that, sorry I did not mean to down play your injuries. Must have been awful for you. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

And no I certainly don't think your being pathetic.

ETA Play down even! sorry i'm tired.
 
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MochaDun

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Chin up b_b...obviously I don't know what the docs have done or what they've said will be the outcome of your bites but the skin on the face does heal amazingly well...I had a friend crushed in a car after hitting a loose horse on a dark road many years ago, entire windscreen shattered into billions of slivers into her face and head, cut to ribbons. You would never know it now...you can only see a few very faint scars when she's very cold. I've had 2 bad cuts around my eye (due to a cat and furball...don't ask) and you can't seem them now barely and I am much older and wrinkly with less collagen in my skin than you. I'm not being facetious I'm just trying to be positive for you :)
 

jaypeebee

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Bb Im glad you came back to explaining more and my view you have completely redeemed yourself. Your dog, in human eyes, was wrong to bite you, but your dog is a dog and not a human and for any one to compare dogs to humans is plain silly. Dogs reactions to pain or discomfort comes in a range of physical or verbal reactions and that is life. I am sorry your lip has been damaged and I hope it heals up well which Im sure it will. I was also bitten by a dog on my face when I was young, just like you it was my fault, and after the wound healed has never been noticeable. Hoping your vet can help Whinny feel better too.
 

Tormenta

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I am in no way condoning telling a dog off the next day as many have said thye do not know what the punishment is for.

But i have to say the dog should not bite under circumstances, if it had been any bigger than a terrier the outcome could have been even worse than stitches or alot more and a nastiier scar.

I have a 14 year old terrier and a daughter, and she would under no circumstances bite my daughter or me, pain or not!!! even been a small dog! Dogs do have pecking orders as they would in a pack in the wild and in a family home they are the bottem of the pack biting people is wrong. Terrier or not.Imagine if that was a rotweiller who even at an old age people would be shouting dangerous dog, put it to sleep!!!

If my dog bit my daughter and she had to have stitiches to be hinest i would seriously consider putting to sleep as sad as it is!!

Unless the op did something nasty or cruell (not saying she did) this behaviour is wrong and its not her fault!!

Can I just point something out here. Never say never when a dog is either in pain (whether you are aware of the fact or not) or discomfort or is elderly.

I would not even make the assumption with an elderly dog of mine that they would 'never under any circumstances' react to a situation. That is akin to assuming that a horse as a prey animal will not use its instincts to flee or fight.

As a dog owner and having children I do not assume they wont, I take precautions to ensure to the best of my ability that it never will. I have an elderly dog in my house at the moment and she is ensured of somewhere she can go to lie at peace and is not overcrowded and overhandled.

Why are you thinking this dog thinks like a human being?
 

Tormenta

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Yes i know they cant communticate in the way humans can. But if every dog that was in pain and was touched or whatever in a certain way bit people then wed clearly have problems. the op has said that she didnt startle her she was on her lap already having a cuddle. I do not think it acceptable for the dog to bite her!

Im not angry at people opinions i just feel that the op (being through a quite tramatic evening was getting the blame for this and then the dog condoned for biting her when she didnt startle ect her?

Nobody was blaming her, in my post I was trying to explain if you read it correctly and no doubt others were too.

Of course a dog shouldn't bite but there are circumstances which other posters here have tried to explain why this 'elderly' dog may have bitten. Why was the dog condoned for biting her? No-one said that. Over a day after, the dog was being punished, which dogs DO NOT understand is all that was pointed out so it is a needless punishment. Would you still be punishing an animal over 24 hours after an incident? And if she has always been a little dominant and possibly a snappy little fecker you can hardly hang, draw and quarter her now can you? Correction and training years ago may have helped.

Oh I give up, honestly!! I'm saying no more.
 

EAST KENT

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Well..what do you expect..you`d get a Hell of a shock if the old lady looked you in the eye and said "oh do please leave off..I have a headache". Makes me love and respect animals more than humes by the day.
 

PucciNPoni

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OP, I'm really sorry you were bitten. That's a horrible thing to experience. Without sounding like I'm coming down on you, it's actually YOUR fault. The dog didn't have "a lack of judgement". They don't judge. End of. It's very possible your old dog is going thru some pain that being a dog, is generally stoic, you haven't realised. An old dog will also experience brain ageing, and senility isn't something they CHOOSE. So even though she might have been aware of you she might not have been aware that it WAS you. I've got a sixteen year old girlie that there's no way in hell if she bit me that I'd suggest it was ever (for any reason) it was HER FAULT. She has a hard time seeing and sometimes if someone reaches down to pet she snaps (out of fear) or sometimes assumes you're handing her food (ever hopeful!). I would be very wary of putting my face near any dog, particularly an old one. And yes, I cuddle my three dogs regularly.
 

PucciNPoni

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whinnie being told off today and you wanted calrifaction for this action, which in some way I think I have given you.

Dogs live in the NOW. They don't think "oooh, I did something bad last week/yesterday/five minutes ago and therefore I must skulk cos I'm being punished." It's easy to think this because dogs are very sensitive creatures and will pick up the VIBE that you are angry and therefore will make a fast track away from the angry person (that is RIGHT NOW acting in a threatening manner). Even though you might not be shouting, hitting etc, the tension in your voice/posture is easily picked up. And a dog is going "HUH? What's that all about, better hide". Really really unfair to an animal to do this.

NO, I wholeheartedly agree that dog biting is serious and should never be allowed. But there are certain circumstances in which we, as humans must make exceptions. Old dogs that are normally sweet suddenly biting is one of them. An injured (in shock) is another.

I sit here and look at my old girl and am so very grateful for every minute I've ever had and ever have left with her. I can't stand the thought of being "cross" with her for her lapses in perfect behaviour.
 

Bay_Beasty

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Cheers PnP .... I off course forgot all you lot know my dog better than me.

I am fed up of trying to get you to understand that

A) I DID NOT TELL WINNIE OFF WHEN I GOT HOME ..... read the thread before taking a quote our of context.

B) She did not bite me out of pain. How i know this?? Because she is my dog and I have lived with her for 15 years and I know her very very well, the bite was either a mismarked initiation of a game (she is still very playful even though old) or the Vivitonin giving her an elated opinion of herslef in the pack. END OFF.

C) Any one else want to have a dig.....??? Bring it on!! I don't actually think you know what you would do in that situation until you are in it, and I for one would hate any of you to have gone through what I did in the last 48 hours, sitting here with 6 stitches from nose to lip and a real lack of trust in your dog and in fact most other dogs right now. I dont want you sympathy ..... what I want is for you to all listen to what I am saying.
 

PucciNPoni

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B_B, sorry I am very guilty of not reading entire threads before responding to a bit of it. I skimmed most of it and perhaps got part of the story. I still stand by on thing I've said though - that a dog will react in the now to what it feels now. I am honestly sorry that you have stitches and you must be feeling a lot of pain. And no doubt you don't trust the dog. I work with dogs and while I love them and want to be around them all the time, I know what it feels to not trust someone's dog. But trust me when I say that just because you've lived with a dog for fifteen years, you can't know what's going on in her brain. It might be the medication - sure. But how can you be so utterly positive that physically she doesn't have pain? You don't live in her skin. Dogs are stoic and don't necessarily show their pain. And maybe her biting you was the "oy, that hurt" moment.

And if the dog was sleeping peacefully and just suddenly got up and bit someone (for example) out of the blue - I would say "poor dog, something not right....maybe time to be PTS". To me it woudln't matter if it child/adult/stranger/family the dog bit. Dogs sometimes do that because physically or mentally they're not right, and it's kinder to let them go.

I think my reaction to your posts was a result of me skimming - and correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a comment somewhere of "I hate it" which kind of flipped a wee switch in my brain to start growling.

I also read on another part of this post where you seem to think that perhaps your dog isn't suffering dementia? I think perhaps maybe this should be re-addressed. This behaviour change (sleeping more, confusion etc) are classic symptoms. Are you sure the medication prescribed isn't for brain ageing? One of the things it does is increase blood flow to the brain...sounds like it might be...hmmmmm

Now you can be angry with me all you like, I'm not trying to have a pop at you. I'm genuniely sorry if you think that and sorry for sounding that way. But sheesh, poor old doggins is probably having some issues that maybe you're just not fully aware of.
 

EAST KENT

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PP ,that is exactly what Vivitonin does..increases blood flow to the brain,and clearly this old lady does have a need for it,just get the dosage right. I found it an absolute miracle for one of my oldies some years back.Blood flow to the face is excellent by the way,and in no time there will be no sign of a nip..so stop making such a fuss ,grow up and treasure that old dog.
I had seven stitches above my eyebrow..you would`nt know now,handily it gave me a slight brow lift on that side,so I need to split it open on the other side to get a free lift there too!
 

milesjess

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I'm really happy to read that you didn't choose to have her PTS, I think that is the right choice to make.

And I hope you make a full recovery from your injury and in time maybe you and Whinnie can build up a bond again.

I adore my dog, but from time to time he does try to be dominant. I'd hate to think he would ever turn aggressively on me or my family but the warning signs are always there when he tries it on.

Perhaps whilst you cuddled her she became unsettled with you in her personal space or with you been close to her face/neck??

I hope you don't think I'm having a go or been picky :) I do think it takes a stronger person to keep and live alongside a dog which has turned on them and not just throwing in the towel and giving up on her.
 
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