Just how subjective IS saddle fitting

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Blythe Spirit

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Last night after much searching I purchased a new saddle for my new horse - I just hope i made a good choice. but what interested me was this - I had three professional fitters come in 3 days they all measured his back to gauge the width fitting bit they ALL measured him up a different size. One said he was a standard Medium, one said he was a medium wide (as he would grow into it) and one that he was a medium narrow and that the medium fit dropped the front of the saddle too far and tilted me forward. they all appeared to do the same thing to measure him and yet each got a different answer. so how much is art and how much science?
 
I think one of the issues is that saddles vary in their widths, so a Saddle Company saddle Wide, might be a Thorowgood's medium etc. so if each of the 3 saddlers specialise in a particular brand, they might be correct for that brand.

But yes, I do think it is sometimes very much akin to voodoo and witchcraft :D
 
Why is it that every yard has a couple of old saddles that seem to fit just about everything, and some saddles are unsatisfactory on any shape of horse?
 
It seems to be an art.. Considering that fitting a saddle is all to do with forces I have yet to meet a saddle fitter who has any quailifications in physics, even a basic A level would help.
 
in each case here the saddlers did not particularly specialise in one brand over another and each tried several brands on the horse...Yes Pennyturner I own a saddle that fits NOTHING including the horse it was supposedly made to fit! Very frustrating
 
Blythe Spirit said:
in each case here the saddlers did not particularly specialise in one brand over another and each tried several brands on the horse...Yes Pennyturner I own a saddle that fits NOTHING including the horse it was supposedly made to fit! Very frustrating
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Like I say...Voodoo I tell you :D


And yes, subjective.

I am now at the point and nearly 2.5k down of thinking of buying a vintage saddle from next Beeston Sales and I reckon from all the years of working with different horses, saddlers and people I respect as well as copious reading I think I might actually find a saddle that fits properly myself.
 
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I have also been sold a 'fitted' saddle that didn't fit and another that appeared to fit but slid about all over the place. I now don't bother with fitters and go by my own judgement.
 
My last purchase was £5 from ebay. It was a Camelot (which I have another, and they're old, but good), and had been overstuffed to the point that the stitching had split all around.

I removed half the flocking, tried it on the pony and put it back together. Turns out it's one of the 'fits just about everything' type :)

In the interests of science, I'd be up for hosting an event where everyone turns up with their horses, and the 'doesn't fit anything' saddles (I have two, but at least they were cheap), to see if we can give them away to someone who has a horse that fits!
 
pennyturner said:
Why is it that every yard has a couple of old saddles that seem to fit just about everything, and some saddles are unsatisfactory on any shape of horse?
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I have an ancient Stubben saddle that 3 different horses wear periodically. To my untrained eye, it is a reasonable fit, and all 3 go fabulously in it. One of them goes better in that than the saddle that cost a fortune and was professionally fitted.
 
I think the problem is that the fitters bring a number of saddles out to you ,but don't seem to be able to admit that actually, NONE of them fit your horse.
 
I had a Kent and masters fitted to my horse. Seemed ok at first but then became very tight around his shoulders so got the saddler back out who furtled about with it and reflocked it. Went away and it was no better. Had him out again and he did the same again. Again, went away and it was no better. Got him out a third time and he put a narrower gullet in it for me and said that will do it. No good. Tried one of my yard owners saddled on him which fitted perfectly so ordered a lovely Fylde in the same size off the internet.
 
I've had so many bad experiences with SMS qualified saddle fitters, it's untrue :( I did start typing out a couple of examples but it made me too mad so I deleted them, plus you'd be here all day reading them!
It is SO difficult to find a decent saddle fitter, and they don't listen when you tell them the horse is unhappy in the saddle.

The best experience I've had so far is with Barrie Swain saddles. I recently bought one of their DR saddles (directly from them, so they came out to fit it) and it's a revelation. It has the Holistic tree rather than Semi-flex, but I can't believe the difference in the horse in that saddle. He is moving totally differently. All of his tricky behaviour under saddle (arguing, not wanting to settle, unsteady in contact, general unpredictability) stopped the second time I rode in the saddle and hasn't started again. Maybe it is because the cut of a DR saddle is more comfortable for him and he'd have been the same in any DR saddle, I don't know. He is becoming more established but that doesn't happen quite literally overnight. He is a different horse in that saddle, and I've had quite a few on him in the 2 years I've owned him (Thorowgood T4, Ideal Jessica, Jeffries Elite jump, Ideal AST jump...). I tried him in the saddle and he was his normal self; the following day, it was like someone had abducted him and replaced him with a quiet, sweet, obedient and perfectly behaved horse overnight. There is something about that saddle he really likes, and he's already begun to change shape since being ridden in it.
 
cobgoblin said:
I think the problem is that the fitters bring a number of saddles out to you ,but don't seem to be able to admit that actually, NONE of them fit your horse.
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I got annoyed last year when a fitter brought jumping saddles out for me to try. Of them all, she was insistent the best fit by far was a £2,500 Pessoa... funny that :-S She wouldn't have it that I didn't like the way the horse felt over a fence in it. In the end I bought an Ideal jumping saddle because he felt the best in it, to me. In the expensive supposedly "best fit" saddle, he was chipping in and taking fliers... that doesn't shout "I'm comfy in this saddle" to me!
 
cobgoblin said:
I think the problem is that the fitters bring a number of saddles out to you ,but don't seem to be able to admit that actually, NONE of them fit your horse.
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I think that's very true certainly one if not two seemed unwilling to conclude that. I also have trouble when the saddle does not fit and yet I am told it would fit in a different size or if I got one made to measure - how can you really tell? I asked one saddler who said combination of one tree with different flaps would fit 'but what if I buy it and it actually does not fit?' to be told 'I'm a professional - that never happens' - and yet she would not be the person making the bespoke saddle....
 
pennyturner said:
Why is it that every yard has a couple of old saddles that seem to fit just about everything, and some saddles are unsatisfactory on any shape of horse?
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Old saddles do seem to be more likely to fit than a lot of modern ones, I think it must be something to do with how they are made :confused3:

I've been told by saddlers over the years that this or that saddle fits, when the horse within a week is saying No and is happier in a saddle condemned by the saddler as wrong fit or old rubbish.

Over the last 10yrs I have been slowly building a small collection of "seems to fit most horses" saddles in various tree-shapes, sizes and widths. I find all of them comfortable to ride in so whatever horse/pony comes my way I think I have it sorted now!

So I would say art rather than science, because I'm not a trained saddle fitter and yet every horse I own is happy, sound, performs well and doesn't have back problems.
 
chestnut cob said:
I tried him in the saddle and he was his normal self; the following day, it was like someone had abducted him and replaced him with a quiet, sweet, obedient and perfectly behaved horse overnight. There is something about that saddle he really likes, and he's already begun to change shape since being ridden in it.
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I do think they tell you to a degree :) one i tried the horse particularly hated it and I mentioned that and saddler said 'yes he will hate it its two sizes too long and 3 too big - so don't pay any attention to that we will order it in the right size for him if you like it.' yet a 16.5 v's a 17.5 could be quite different for me too. yes its a mine field - just HOPE I have made a good choice this time :)
 
Nugget La Poneh said:
Like I say...Voodoo I tell you :D


And yes, subjective.

I am now at the point and nearly 2.5k down of thinking of buying a vintage saddle from next Beeston Sales and I reckon from all the years of working with different horses, saddlers and people I respect as well as copious reading I think I might actually find a saddle that fits properly myself.
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Yep, I have one, a Pennwood and I love it. It has fitted two of my past horses well (never marked, slipped or moved) but doesn't really fit my current boy (it curls up off his back a little at the back) but despite this, again, it never marks, slips or moves on him (not that I use it on him that often, just occasionally, partly because I don't think the old thing would survive being used regularly, particularly as I have to carry my saddles around in the car 'cause I have to keep them at home).

After having as few modern saddles, new and nearly new, I have come to the conclusion that older is better in many ways, quality of workmanship, quality of leather, longevity and they just seem to fit and stay put much better. They certainly aren't squishy and slip about like modern saddle seem to.
 
I think many saddle fitters forget that the only expert in the room when trying saddles is in fact the horse.
 
marmalade76 said:
Yep, I have one, a Pennwood and I love it. It has fitted two of my past horses well (never marked, slipped or moved) but doesn't really fit my current boy (it curls up off his back a little at the back) but despite this, again, it never marks, slips or moves on him (not that I use it on him that often, just occasionally, partly because I don't think the old thing would survive being used regularly, particularly as I have to carry my saddles around in the car 'cause I have to keep them at home).

After having as few modern saddles, new and nearly new, I have come to the conclusion that older is better in many ways, quality of workmanship, quality of leather, longevity and they just seem to fit and stay put much better. They certainly aren't squishy and slip about like modern saddle seem to.
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Totally agree! My old dressage saddle fits pretty much everything I plonk it on, except for Alf. Even though it doesn't technically fit him, he doesn't complain about it, so it obviously doesn't bother him (He REALLY objects if he isn't comfortable in a saddle!). It does hurt my back though, which is why it has to be sold - but i shall be very sad to see it go. It's one of those saddles that is worth it's weight in gold, because it fits so many different horses
 
If I'm really stuck, I have one of those old-fashioned donkey pads. It' like riding bareback, but with stirrups, and a wee little handle at the front. :)
 
My back lady (very qualified in equine anatomy/mechanics etc) was so angry at the mess of my ponies back due to an ill fitting saddle (which was "fitted" by a designer and fitter who owns a company specialising in saddles for my type of pony...and who had insisted just a few weeks prior to my back lady's visit when I had her out to check the saddle as I was sure it wasn't right, that the saddle was absolutely spot on!!!) - back lady's view was that she had to study for a number of years to get the qualification that enables her to tend to horses backs with full knowledge and buy in from vets etc and then she spends the majority of her time fixing problems caused by unqualified saddle fitters!! She kind of has a point...
 
I have a 30 year old Lauriche fitted by Kay Humphreys and completely rebuilt underneath by Graham (who made Lauriches) at Barrie Swain's workshops. In my view it's as near as perfect that a saddle can get. Kay's coming to check it next Friday as I think the flocking has settled and it needs raising a little. In my view she is the best saddle fitter in the country, I've seen her work absolute miracles with two horses who had suffered badly as a result of poorly fitting saddles one of which was made to measure.
 
I have given up with fitters.
Had to go through the SMS last year when a locally well thought of fitter lamed our loan horse severely with how they badly flocked the saddle.
I had my costs refunded, included the physio etc.
I only had the fitter because the horse was on loan to us, and I didn't want to "risk" doing it myself to someone else's horse. Big mistake.
 
I suppose it's like any other profession. There are good and bad ones out there. I would recently have been lost without my saddle fitter, very professional, happy horse equals happy owner. Without his input I think it might have gone differently
 
pansymouse said:
I have a 30 year old Lauriche fitted by Kay Humphreys and completely rebuilt underneath by Graham (who made Lauriches) at Barrie Swain's workshops. In my view it's as near as perfect that a saddle can get. Kay's coming to check it next Friday as I think the flocking has settled and it needs raising a little. In my view she is the best saddle fitter in the country, I've seen her work absolute miracles with two horses who had suffered badly as a result of poorly fitting saddles one of which was made to measure.
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That's what my dressage is - amazing saddles. Don't suppose you could mention to Kay that I'm looking to sell mine could you? She is more likely than most to appreciate it/know someone who might want one!
 
I had a saddle fitter who went through each example with me telling me why he felt each was wrong. As it happened he was only happy with one saddle which was the cheapest one too. When i asked if we could go up a seat size he explained how that would change the way it fitted

I felt comfortable with his manner, the way he explained things and the fact that he had a yard himself was a reassurance

Even without his qualifications i would be happy to use him and trusted him not to supply me with anything he wouldnt put on his own horses, that trust was very important to me - same as a vet, farrier etc you have to have someone you feel has your horse's welfare first in their mind
 
We had this last year, new horse no saddle, rang our normal saddler but couldn't get an appointment (work/holiday) for 6 weeks !

Anyway a friend we suggested we try a local lady, not a saddler, but someone who stocks lots of second-hand saddles. She said to use a wire coat hanger and use it to make a solid card template with it, then go to hers. We did this and she put the template into about 15 saddles, and we came away with 6 that fit the template. Also we knew we wanted a 17" as this is what would fit the rider as well as not be too long on the horse.

Of the 6, 3 didn't fit at all, 1 didn't fit when girthed and the other 2 were fine girthed. Our saddler had said to ride in them both until the horse had sweated up and then checked the sweat patches under the saddle were even as this would indicate that the saddle fits where it is meant to, if its patchy it indicates pinch points.

As we thought the horse would change shape as it did more work, we didn't want to spend a fortune on a new saddle so this definitely worked for us.
 
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Looking at old saddles and newer ones - the old ones that I have seen, had flatter trees and less padding (thinner panels, smaller knee rolls and flatter seats).
 
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