Just put the thicker rug on...

[foxy1]

Ok, do you want to tell the professors that taught my biology degree that they are completely wrong and all those research papers are bunkum, or should I?!

It's ok, I will tell them.

Do you think horses in hot climates grow coats as thick as those in cold climates?

 

[SpottedCat]

Right, because the day length doesn't change and there is no genetic difference between an Arab in a desert country and a New Forest in the UK....

Coat change is controlled by daylight, coat thickness is controlled by genetics, and you can rug all you like, but that won't change.

 

[AandK]

i dont think theres anything wrong with rugging up a horse if it needs it or you have a reason for it. i just wondered if there was anyone who had a horse that didnt have a reason to rug yet as i was worrying that maybe i was being to harsh on my horse but i only needed one person to help me not think im being silly.

Of course you're not being harsh to your horse! If people want to put loads of rugs on then that's their perogative... I think it's OTT but their horse, their choice.

My fully clipped (aside from legs and half head) TB lived out in the snow last year in just one 450g rug, and he survived
His winter coat is just as fluffy and still appears late Aug after living out for 3yrs, just as it did when he was stabled at night and rugged a lot earlier. He is a hot horse though, if I over rugged him (full clip, incl head and legs, mid winter, temps in the minus's with more than 2 rugs) then he would sweat! Horses for courses and all that...

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

SC-i know a lot IS related to daylight hours, but honestly keeping them warm does stop so much coat growing too.

CS was a yak the year i bought him, and has grown less and less winter coat each year since, as the daylight hours have not altered, i can only guess it IS down to being kept well covered all year round.
ditto Toby, first year we had him he wasnt rugged and was like a polar bear.............this year i promise you that coat is not just flat, its half the length and thickness!

i produced show ponies for a few years and can tell you again, that rugging (to excess in some cases) does alter the coat.

 

[foxy1]

SC-i know a lot IS related to daylight hours, but honestly keeping them warm does stop so much coat growing too.

CS was a yak the year i bought him, and has grown less and less winter coat each year since, as the daylight hours have not altered, i can only guess it IS down to being kept well covered all year round.
ditto Toby, first year we had him he wasnt rugged and was like a polar bear.............this year i promise you that coat is not just flat, its half the length and thickness!

i produced show ponies for a few years and can tell you again, that rugging (to excess in some cases) does alter the coat.

This is my experience too. And ditto show animals, my friend shows and they really do rug to excess but all the coats like spun silk. even natives (with their genetics)

 

[Mince Pie]

Millie has now gone up to a MW with neck as I am spoiling her a bit the year! Olly is naked and will stay that way unless he really needs a rug as he is a right hairy beast!

 

[madeleine1]

Of course you're not being harsh to your horse! If people want to put loads of rugs on then that's their perogative... I think it's OTT but their horse, their choice.

My fully clipped (aside from legs and half head) TB lived out in the snow last year in just one 450g rug, and he survived
His winter coat is just as fluffy and still appears late Aug after living out for 3yrs, just as it did when he was stabled at night and rugged a lot earlier. He is a hot horse though, if I over rugged him (full clip, incl head and legs, mid winter, temps in the minus's with more than 2 rugs) then he would sweat! Horses for courses and all that...

well this is was i thought but everyone was saying they were rugging up worried me for a minute. thanks for the reasurance. carry on rugging if u need to people

 

[3Beasties]

SC-i know a lot IS related to daylight hours, but honestly keeping them warm does stop so much coat growing too.

CS was a yak the year i bought him, and has grown less and less winter coat each year since, as the daylight hours have not altered, i can only guess it IS down to being kept well covered all year round.
ditto Toby, first year we had him he wasnt rugged and was like a polar bear.............this year i promise you that coat is not just flat, its half the length and thickness!

i produced show ponies for a few years and can tell you again, that rugging (to excess in some cases) does alter the coat.

Ditto this! I also believe that if you rug a clipped horse well enough they won't need clipping more then 2 or 3 times over the Winter, if a horse needs clipping every couple of weeks I'm sure it's because they are getting cold!

 

[monkeybum13]

SNOW?!

ours are all in overnight, bruce is fully clipped and wearing:
magnetic rug, full neck 120gm,300gm stable rug, leg wraps

CS is not clipped but still in summer coat:
magnet rug, full neck 120gm, 200gm stable rug,leg wraps

Toby-unclipped shetty (but has been well rugged all year so not a huge coat)
full neck 200gm

Lucie Bog po-full neck 220gm, 200gm stable rug,leg wraps

all are out in the day in 350gm full neck rugs,and two big boys have snuggy hoods on.

Hope you don't mind me asking but what do your horses wear during winter when temps are much lower?

 

[AandK]

if a horse needs clipping every couple of weeks I'm sure it's because they are getting cold!

I'm sorry but that is rubbish.. How warm has it been for the last 3 weeks? (apart from the last 2 days of course..) You're telling me that my TB needs clipping again after 3 weeks is because he has been cold..?!

Maybe it is because his coat grows quite fast in order to reach it's full yeti thickness in time for the winter.. He has always looked like a fluffy bear in the winter, genetics and all that..

 

[3Beasties]

I probably didn't explain myself very well then, obviously initially the coat will keep coming through early in the Winter but once into Winter I don't think they should need clipping all that often, certainly not every couple of weeks! All the horses/ponies I clip and look after (TB's to Section As) get their initial clip and then maybe another one a month or so later, very rarely have I had to clip after the 2nd clip, but maybe I am just very lucky!

Last weeks Weather was far from 'Normal'

 

[OneInAMillion]

5 degrees here today and connie pony in a no fill with no fill neck and tb in 100g with 150g neck cover.

Last winter when we had a month when the warmest temperature recorded for us was -7 connie was blanket clipped with a cooler rug, 400g stable rug and then 450g full neck turnout rug over the top. spoilt, yes!!

 

[charlimouse]

None of mine are clipped yet.

Harry and Jem, the TB's out during the day and in at night have standard neck 100g TO's during the day, and a 200g stable rugs at night.

Millie, my TB living out 24/7 has a standard neck 220g TO, which is taken off if it gets warm during the day

Pippa, my hairy TBxID living out 24/7 has been naked until the weather turned, she now has a 150g standard neck TO

Sam, the donkey living out 24/7 just has a rainsheet

Jake, the miniature Shetland is living out naked

Colin, the Scottish sports horse is out during the day and at night completely naked

And Celeste the WBxTB yearling in at night ond out during the day is also naked.

 

[AandK]

3Beasties, I think you have just been lucky!
My old mare only needed 2 clips a winter, if that. My TB has to be done every 3 weeks at the moment as it's still warm and he's still eventing. Once it gets to late Nov his coat growth slows so he needs clipping less often.
I know the recent weather was not normal but that's my point, the very warm weather hasn't stopped him getting very fluffy already! I'd rather not be doing my second clip tomorrow but have no choice if I want to keep working him.
It really is dependent on so many factors, as with anything, what works for one doesn't work for all.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Ok, do you want to tell the professors that taught my biology degree that they are completely wrong and all those research papers are bunkum, or should I?!

It's a very basic biological principle that winter coat growth in mammals is controlled by melatonin levels. Melatonin is produced by the pineal gland, and production is inhibited by light - so as the days get shorter, more melatonin is produced and this triggers a number of biological responses, one of which is to change coats to the winter coat. This happens to coincide with it getting colder, but coincidence is not causality, and making the horse warmer does nothing to change this. It does, as I said, flatten the coat, giving the appearance of a thinner coat, but it has no effect on when a horse grows the winter coat.

an interesting article for those rugging to inhibit coat growth - it seems the answer is to bring in at night and house under lights for a standard summer day length (or thats what I gleaned from it anyway!)

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

monkeybum-i think last winter mine ended up wearing a full neck fleece, full neck 120gm and a couple of full neck HW's. cant quite remember, i just keep checking and adding/removing as appropriate!

imagine the shetty will need no more than a couple of HW full necks on, thats once he's clipped, as will be working this winter and he does get super sweaty.

am worshipping CS at mo, as he barely sweated when ridden this eve, and is still all sleek and shiney and summery, wub!

 

[only_me]

imagine the shetty will need no more than a couple of HW full necks on, thats once he's clipped, as will be working this winter and he does get super sweaty.
!

No more than a couple of HW full necks - on a shettie

Am all for personal choice on rugging etc. and normally couldnt be bothered to join in with the rugging posts but a couple full neck HWs on a shetland seems a bit extreme! (and I know he will be clipped etc - but he is still a shetland )

 

[xspiralx]

mine have been rugged virtually all summer though, i bet yours have been naked? so its all relative, to them, this is flipping freezing even with a rug on!

they are rugged to cut down on coat growth, to cut down on clipping. and to keep them clean. time is money, the less time i have to spend clipping, the more time i have to teach (£), ride, and god forbid-have some me time, or see OH.

Both the boys are training hard (adv med-PSG work), so need to be able to work without sweating, for bruce that is a full clip and for CS being well rugged means he grows no coat and thus may not need clipping at all.

as for when its really cold, 2 HW and some under rugs.simples.

ETA-i can promise that if mine were only in a sheet or fleece at night, they would all be shivering(even toby) and CS would look like a hat rack after a week.

Surely it takes more time overall to put on and take off 3/4 rugs each day, plus leg wraps - than clipping 2 or 3 times through winter which is what, an hour at most each time?

Cannot imagine how a horse needs that many rugs, or that it can be very comfortable for them, but I guess everyone has different priorities.

 

[elsiex]

Tb x Wb full clipped Inc full face ears and legs, in a 220g turnout full neck and 220g stable with neck. Toastie toastie!

 

[OneInAMillion]

I don't care how many rigs the boys are wearing as long as they are toastie!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

a full clip takes what 2 1/2 hours, and it takes what 2 1/2 mins to whip off top rug, swap for a turnout and take off leg wraps?!

they do get all their rugs taken off if they need straightening, and they all get taken off in the eve to be groomed anyway.....i dont take them all off and put them all back on again once they are wering multiple layers.

and no, no rug rubs.

 

[kirstyhen]

a full clip takes what 2 1/2 hours, and it takes what 2 1/2 mins to whip off top rug, swap for a turnout and take off leg wraps?!

Not getting into the rug debate, but 2 1/2 hours It used to take me an hour max to whip everything of Hen and takes me 40 minutes to do Mally (I'm a perfectionist too, so they aren't scruff bags!)

 

[smac]

I dont care what people put on their horses because I think the most important thing is to be consisitent in how you rug.

Interesting about the load up with rugs to stop the coat vs. daytime bulbs as Im kind off the daytime hours side of the arhuement- but I think thats because I dont rug up early enough/heavy enough to stop the coats- each year I say I will but never do!

I have a question for PS- once the coat starts coming through- is it too late to put loads of rugs on to stop it getting thicker- horse in q. is a Irish Sport and just found out nightmare to clip! has a little fluff at mo...

Also, I like them to be immaculate when I clip, and legs ears etc, the lot on a tricky non sedated customer will take 1.5hr max including tidy up of clipping bay/clippers- I cant imagine 2.5 per horse!! Id never get anything done!! For the sake of £40 a horse I'd have to hire someone!

 

[Gingerwitch]

but when is a horse too hot with all these rugs on.

I have upped mine to 100gsm tonight, but we are in a howling wind - they are both fully clipped - did it early so they will have a light covering of hair if the bad winter we are forecast does happen.

I also worry about over rugging, more so than under rugging - as both mine are on straw and get a good deal of hay - so if they get cold they just eat there beds.

I have known horses loose more condition by over rugging than by under rugging and it cannot be very comfortable to have 2 or 3 heavy rugs on.

If i needed that amount of rugs on either of mine I would not clip.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i dont mind, it drives me insane at the time, and i hate it, but i wouldnt trust anyone else to do it well enough!
2.5hours incl setting up, clipping (incl head,legs, inside ears), tidying mane and tail,and washing and tidying up.

once the fluff is here i think you've had it, the body is in winter mode and you might struggle to keep him warm enough to stop it,without making him hot if you see what i mean......rugging well now will def lessen the yak effect but prob wont make the diff between cliping and not clipping...................you need to keep him well rugged next summer and be on the ball for every cold night/chilly day if you dont want to clip next year.

ETA-gingerwitch, so you would work a PSG horse to a sweat and then do what? to cool it/dry it before putting to bed? horses lose moe condition by getting sweaty then chilled.
or would you not ride all winter?

 

[elsiex]

I don't post too much on here but do look around quite a bit. I have noticed that a lot of the posts that princess sparkle replies to, she gets jumped on? From what I have seen she is probably one of the most successful riders on here, has got some gorgeous horses and lovely gear (I'm very envious!!) and seems to get a really hard time.

I thought these message boards were supposed to be about getting different peoples opinions and advice on different subjects and it seems that she gets slated for absolutely everything she does!

I am not one to get involved in disagreements, but I do love a good debate. There are a million different ways of looking after horses, but surely we are all in it for the same ultimate goal of doing the best for our horses?

Who cares if you put no rug on or ten, it is YOUR horse to do what you want with, and as long as you do right by YOUR horse, who cares about anyone else?

If everyone thought the same, this would be a very boring site, and a very boring world!

Rant over.

 

[smac]

Thanks PS I did think it was too far gone! the stable block he is in is brick built and every other adjoinging wall is grills to their neighbour, so have body heat of each other.

Arrived end of July, He has been out at night until end August (and was rugged majority of nights in Aug) then been in poly rugs since but he has been hot in his lightweight (150gm) and getting agitated once I had put it on so I know he has been hot- where as now he is greatful for the 2 rugs

elsiex: I agree- as long as one is comfortable with what they do and maintain it then thats all that matters

 

[Gingerwitch]

Princess - If i had a horse working at psg level, I would kick the husband out and the horse would be at home lying in front of my fire !

No on a serious note, how many of the folks clipping, then loading up with 3 rugs are working at a level to warrant it? So many times clips seam to be for the owner rather than the horse.

Everyone tells me my tb should be in x rug or y rug - but he is one of the hottest horses I know - he has less rugs on than my warmblood.

It is horses for courses but i have know a lot of folks having two medium weights and then a heavy weight on by the time its minus 4 - and the horses are uncomfortable and the rugs are a nightmare to change, and the underrugs get wet in the field and its just a horrid mess.

Do horses really need more than a under rug and then a heavy weight on top? and if so would they not be better with a less severe clip?

Last year i did not clip - why because the work load of the horses would not warrant it and 3 or 4 days of a hot sweaty horse did not warrant the other 26 where it wasnt - (work commitments)

 

[Elfen]

I dont clip my big horse as he has to be sedated and it costs too much - he's been out all summer with a sun shower on - switched to a 200gm over night two days ago and he's coming in over night from today. My two year old is naked and will stay naked unless the weather is very wet as he's had rain scald in the past. Two year old is already like a fluffy bear, big horse has a very fine coat.

 

[TGM]

PS I am sure you know this, but coat growth bears no relation to temperature and is in fact controlled by daylight - you'd be as well to invest in some of the daylight bulbs they use on mares as rugging may flatten the coat giving the appearance of less growth, but it doesn't change the amount of coat they grow. Not saying you shouldn't rug, just thinking of a more effective way of saving you clipping time.

This is what we are doing this year, and did after Christmas last year, to save sedating the ginger one for clipping. I did quite a bit of research on it and apparently you don't need special lights, just one that provides enough light so you can easily read a newspaper in every corner of the stable - we use a standard fluorescent tube.