Karl v Heuschmann. Ego before Horse welfare?

Caol Ila said:
LOL. Nice to see that even the old guys remain, at least in their hearts and minds, in junior high.
Click to expand...

Actually yesterday smacked more of WW11 than junior high. The Dutch are wrong, the Spanish are wrong, the Portuguese are wrong and the French?. Mein Gott they are very very wrong lol
 
TrasaM said:
Actually yesterday smacked more of WW11 than junior high. The Dutch are wrong, the Spanish are wrong, the Portuguese are wrong and the French?. Mein Gott they are very very wrong lol
Click to expand...

So who's right - come on, you've got to let us in on the big secret.....:D
 
Booboos said:
The two used to be best buds in the fight against the powers that be that refused to recognise their collective genius but somewhere along the way they couldn't quite decide who had the greatest claim to the throne of the classical masters and have fallen out big time.
Click to expand...

I like the way you've written that, made me smile.
 
And I also agree that women can be just as bad. I have been to quite a few clinics over the years, trying to find out "how."

I wish all the "riding instructors" who do all these clinics and write books would shut themselves up in a room somewhere and not come out until they can all agree on how dressage should be taught and what is the aim and how to achieve it for everybody. Some hope.
 
Hi Trasam, I went to a GM lecture/demo a little while ago, I was really impressed by the biomechanics lecture and was really sold on what he had to say, then I saw him ride, I was utterly astounded having watched him berate riders in the demo for small imperfections in their riding to watch him 'demonstrate'. I must have had my jaw open through shock that he rode in a fashion that frankly left me completely confused, I think most of the audience were confused as well and we left before it finished.
 
Orangehorse said:
And I also agree that women can be just as bad. I have been to quite a few clinics over the years, trying to find out "how."

I wish all the "riding instructors" who do all these clinics and write books would shut themselves up in a room somewhere and not come out until they can all agree on how dressage should be taught and what is the aim and how to achieve it for everybody. Some hope.
Click to expand...

Good heavens what a ghastly idea we need lots of different approaches it's healthy and good.
 
didn't Xenophon (the society, not the man) chuck GH out? because his riding wasn't good enough. PK also fell out with Hinrichs very publicly but have to say, I do like PK and would love to train with him.

The way I see it, they are all trying to make a living out of a very difficult field, stands to reason therefore that they say their way is the only way (although think some methods don't mix unless you really are experienced enough to know what you are doing, which counts many of us out). I don't like the bitchiness but try to look at the riding and the horses trained-so GH just doesn't do it for me.

I tried to start a riding club up here to attract more classical type trainers, have to say that it was scuppered in part by the behaviour of two female well known 'classical' instructors who thought nothing of phoning me at all hours to tell me what the other had said about me lol! And one of which seemd convinced she owned the word 'classical' and threatened to sue us. We eventually managed to establish regular clinics with younger, better instructors (one male, one female) who wanted to teach and earn some money.

TBH I got so disheartened with klassikal and some of its proponents I decided to not do dressage at all any more, I prefer to bomb around the countryside on my pony and school them enough to make them into nice hacks.
 
Farma said:
Hi Trasam, I went to a GM lecture/demo a little while ago, I was really impressed by the biomechanics lecture and was really sold on what he had to say, then I saw him ride, I was utterly astounded having watched him berate riders in the demo for small imperfections in their riding to watch him 'demonstrate'. I must have had my jaw open through shock that he rode in a fashion that frankly left me completely confused, I think most of the audience were confused as well and we left before it finished.
Click to expand...

Perhaps just as well I missed the riding then :) what he says about the biomechanics makes sense but again its along the same lines as PK. He is quite cute though :o
 
Motherofchickens. I've a friend who got involved with a more classical approach to dressage and tried to set up some competitions and the same thing happened. They just could not agree so it all fell to bits. Lol.. No pun intended but I think the bit issue was in some way involved. :D
 
its a nightmare tbh, they kept bleating on about being for the horse but really they were for the money and defending their corner (which I understand but the way to do that IMO, is to hold good clinics, not bad mouth each other) . well off out of it.
 
TrasaM said:
It was the Freisians fault ;) GH made a special mention of Freisians . Seems they're not suitable for dressage .. Uuum?m
Click to expand...

Well they would not be my choice for dressage but it does not mean that can't be ridden with sympathy and empathy for the horse and in that clip he showed a complete lack of empathy for that horse in that situation and for someone who seems so forthright in this commendation of others much make you very very cautious.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
its a nightmare tbh, they kept bleating on about being for the horse but really they were for the money and defending their corner (which I understand but the way to do that IMO, is to hold good clinics, not bad mouth each other) . well off out of it.
Click to expand...

You do get it in all corners of the horse training world but it does to me seem in infest the ' classical ' end the worse.
It's a great shame as there's a lot to interest and learn in the message but all this silliness just turns people off.
 
I can't help noticing the irony of everyone just sort of slagging off a couple of people willy nilly in a thread which was started about horse people slagging each other off willy nilly..

Just me? I'll get my hat :p
 
MotherOfChickens said:
its a nightmare tbh, they kept bleating on about being for the horse but really they were for the money and defending their corner (which I understand but the way to do that IMO, is to hold good clinics, not bad mouth each other) . well off out of it.
Click to expand...

This is why I don't do "classical" anymore. I got fed up with being told that any they don't teach is "unclassical" and therefore wrong. Got fed up with being judged for doing "unclassical" things with my horse and being constantly made to feel I was doing too much with him, asking for too much, too quickly. It just stopped making sense to me. I get much better results and sense from people who don't classify themselves as anything, who try different things to see what works, and don't bang on about how everyone else is doing it wrong.
 
chestnut cob said:
This is why I don't do "classical" anymore. I got fed up with being told that any they don't teach is "unclassical" and therefore wrong. Got fed up with being judged for doing "unclassical" things with my horse and being constantly made to feel I was doing too much with him, asking for too much, too quickly. It just stopped making sense to me. I get much better results and sense from people who don't classify themselves as anything, who try different things to see what works, and don't bang on about how everyone else is doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

I understand exactly what you are getting at I have just started going to a trainer now and again who defines themselves as classical and although I am enjoying it and it's focusing me on certain things in a good way there's a definite tinge of what you describe going on .
I wonder if it's a bit defensive in that they feel they need to justify their difference .
 
Amazing how money, prizes and ego changes what is essentially just training. Training the horse to move as we please. Sideways to open a gate perhaps, turn to go through it. Avoid a cows horn or a spear or sword. Ford a brook or leap a wall. As soon as competition is introduced, it suddenly becomes an obsession. Great if it benefits the horse - support it. Sadly, in most cases it only benefits the human collecting the rosettes as they use means of pushing the horse beyond its capabilities. Already broken, it keeps on giving. That's the real tragedy... Not men or women arguing over who's written the best book.
 
Caol Ila said:
I wonder if Tallyho isn't right. I just read a report from someone on another horsey forum who recently attended a Buck Brannaman clinic and she seemed to think that he spent quite a lot of time slagging off other trainers.?
Click to expand...
The times I saw him, trainer Mark Rashid was actually pretty good about not doing this and saying "This is the way I do things and this is why it works for me".
 
Mark Rashid is a classy guy and one of my favourite trainers. He's very clear about why he does what he does and avoids descending into narkiness.
 
Likewise Ben Hart. He avoided any reference to how anyone else works. Even during lunch when someone tried to draw him out he just changed the subject.
 
Carl Hester manages to do demos without having a go at anyone else. In fact he is keen to point out that he does not have a unique system, that there are good ideas to all approaches and that armchair critics should get on a horse and show us all how it is done!
 
Booboos said:
Carl Hester manages to do demos without having a go at anyone else. In fact he is keen to point out that he does not have a unique system, that there are good ideas to all approaches and that armchair critics should get on a horse and show us all how it is done!
Click to expand...

IME that ones of the instant pointers that someone is a good trainer is that they are always open to different ideas always open to new things that's not to say they are constantly swopping and changing but rather they are enquiring and constantly curious .
On the other hand any trainer with the it's my way or no way or even worse the ones wo seem to believe the whole world is abusing horses and they have the only route to correct training are best avoided like the plague .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top