Kauto on the ITV News last night.

You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!
 
RachelFerd said:
You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!
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totally agree with this at least he int in burgers or a tin owner is deluded if he really thinks retired racehorses end up in a field somewhere and if they did what a horrendous ending for a horse that has been pampered all its days. At least he has a chance for a long and healthy life
 
windand rain said:
owner is deluded if he really thinks retired racehorses end up in a field somewhere
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The owner is deluded? Not half as much as you, it seems, if you think that they don't.

Which Grand National winner was it that was rescued from a field looking like a hat rack? I forget his name, but he was far, far from alone in being a neglected ex racer.

Kauto's owner is disengenuous though, it would have been very unlikely to happen to Kauto Star if he had left him at Ditcheat where they were offering him a home for life and I should think that comment has caused steam to spout from Nicholson's ears, quite rightly too.


ps Found it

http://www.grandnational.info/grand-national-winner-who-became-a-symbol-of-horse-welfare/
 
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Cptrayes for someone who has had a lot to say on this thread you have made some very basic mistakes , Kauto Star is 13years old not 14yrs and He was trained by Paul NIcholls not Nicholson. You seem to imply you made a better job of your horses than LC and YB which is very arrogant. Hello Dandy was found in a poor state as was Willie Wumkins ( a prolific winner at Cheltenham but I seem to remember show jumpers ended up the same way.



When I last saw Kauto at Ditcheat he was being brought in from the horse walker and came in to his box like a quiet pony so he is chilled, but get him on the racecourse or the gallops and he lites up. At their open day it took 2 to lead him around as he was so full of himself. I think dressage is chilling him more and obviously he is not having racehorse cubes:rolleyes::D
 
cptrayes said:
I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage.
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He could quite possibly be like some of the ex-racers my sister rides, in particular Reg. On the surface, you have a superb hunting horse. He's polite, the perfect hack, never strong or silly no matter how many people are around him and what they're doing. He jumps for fun, and loves going over the big, solid hedges and those types of fences. But he finds hunting pretty much the most stressful thing he could be asked to do, and cannot cope at all. I think some horses just can't mentally be 'there' for hunting and from KS's behavior (which was v. similar to Reg's on race days) I can imagine he is one of those types.

Either way, I thought he looked happy and like he was learning to use his body in a different way. Bee goes overbent of her own accord as it's where she finds it easier to balance and it's 5 month into her reschooling for her to have the strength needed to carry herself properly... For 2 months in, I thought he looked pretty solid?
 
RachelFerd said:
You can't win with some people. Have him relaxed and calm and apparently he has 'lost his sparkle' .. if he was bucking and squealing his way around the arena you would have a bunch of people on here going 'told you, he can't do dressage, he will never settle down to it'.... this is a very, very silly place sometimes!
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Totally agree ^^^^
:D
 
I've not watched the video but can you not be pleased that he is being well looked after and doing something rather than nothing?

The only differenve between KS's retirement and Neptune Collanges's is that KS was sent to a professional whereas NC was kept in the family - because they had the facilities and ability to do that.
 
The poor horse is obviously suffering horribly, and is on its last legs and should obviously be put to sleep. Laura Collett is a rubbish rider and doesn't know one end of a horse from another and some random person on the internet knows far more than her. Its not like she's ridden for Britain or anything :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider :))
 
Millitiger: I do wish this Forum had a "like" button. Completely agree with you.

Have you seen the lovely picture of him on Laura's Twitter page looking at the H&H article. It is absolutely delightful.
 
millitiger said:
I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider :))
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LIKE
 
cptrayes said:
I personally would have preferred to see a 14 year old chaser sent hunting which he would excell at than asked to retrain to do some moderate novice/elementary or even medium level dressage.




I am not one of them. But what does "success" look like for this partnership?

I thought/hoped that he was only going to be there to be assessed and then go to someone who can give him individual care. She's a top level eventer, what is his job with her supposed to be if he is going to stay? He's a high mileage 14 year old horse selectively bred for a totally different job. Is he just going to be the worst eventer, dressage horse and showjumper in the whole yard? I want him to be with someone who thinks he is the bees knees, not a low level eventer/PR tool in a high level yard.
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Totally agree and exactly what I've said all along, it's an odd choice of career and an odd choice of home and rider, nothing personal against LC, I would have said the same about any event rider.
 
I think the whole idea of him doing dressage is that the owner didn't want him to jump and risk injury. An event rider would be more used to working with TBs than a dressage rider and probably put less pressure on him. I thought he looked great and seems to be accepting the work well. Yes he may have been over bent, but he has to find his balance in a totally new way of going. In this respect he will be like a young horse and he will try to find ways of avoiding working into a contact etc. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.
There was a picture of him jumping in the school so it sounds like he is having varied work and turn out every day.
 
millitiger said:
I think he looks great, relaxed and swinging along.

I thought Kauto was known to be a little bit fragile; perhaps that's why he isn't in a hunting or team chasing home?

Also, as amazing as he is, he has had some pretty big falls in his career and I'm not sure I'd fancy jumping him at hunting pace over unknown fences and unknown ground conditions (but maybe I'm just not the bravest rider :))
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Like.
 
The owner is deluded if he thinks many geldings end their days in a field many many more end up very dead in a slaughter house 80% of thoroughbreds end up in the abattoir. Many are race winners
Nice idea to have them retire to a field but as demonstrated for some it would be a fate worse than death.
KS is a lucky boy that his owner does care about him many more are quite simply disposable regardless of how good or bad they are
I am sure he will enjoy a lifetime as a ridden horse and who knows he may even be able to perform dressage well enough to do a few one day events for fun if they want to take the risk
 
Yes great what ever, the only reason that this horse is kept in the media is because of his owner, other owners of really good racehorses either put them in foal if a mare and if a gelding go hunting/hacking what ever and they don't put their beloved charges on the front page of the H/H and 2 page spread over nothing. I'd rather hear about Moorcroft and Heros as they do more for the ex-racehorse than CS would ever do.
 
I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now.

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals.

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media. And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing.

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all :confused:
 
cptrayes said:
I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all :confused:
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TBF do you want Ms Average to this she can do the initial re-school of a ex-racer? I think every one of us knows of a car crash. Yes racehorses make fantastic hacks, family horses and competition horses but that delicate few months post racing I'd rather see them go to a professional/experienced person. Of course there are exceptions but there are novices who see a ex-racer as a cheap option then get in way over their heads and well.... we all know how that ends up and is most of the reason my ex-racers get such a bad rep.
 
cptrayes said:
I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now.

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals.

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media. And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing.

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all :confused:
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Perhaps he is there because the owner can afford to send him there and know that the horse is being cared for and all of his needs looked after?

If I had infinite wealth, a famous racehorse who was retired and I wanted to send him somewhere to enjoy life away from racing, I think a professional event yard is a pretty good choice.

If money is no object why would you give KS to an amateur who (lets face it) has much more potential to muck the horse up and isn't such a sure bet of a successful re-schooling?

So what if the owner has sent him there to keep in the media spotlight- the horse doesn't know that and quite probably doesn't care :)
Personally, I think the media would be interested in KS regardless of where he is kept; as seen by this and other threads, the general public have really invested in this horse and want to know how he is getting on.

Regarding why Laura would want him in the yard- he is a paying livery so is already helping to finance the business.
Maybe she wants some of the spotlight to use as free publicity for her business?
Maybe she doesn't 'need' his box for a more profitable horse and is simply enjoying her time with a racing legend?

If 'Ms Average' knows so little about ex-racers she thinks they need to be at a pro yard and takes the experience of this one horse as gospel, I'd question whether that particular Ms Average is suited to owning an ex-racer anyway.
 
millitiger said:
Perhaps he is there because the owner can afford to send him there and know that the horse is being cared for and all of his needs looked after?

If I had infinite wealth, a famous racehorse who was retired and I wanted to send him somewhere to enjoy life away from racing, I think a professional event yard is a pretty good choice.

If money is no object why would you give KS to an amateur who (lets face it) has much more potential to muck the horse up and isn't such a sure bet of a successful re-schooling?

So what if the owner has sent him there to keep in the media spotlight- the horse doesn't know that and quite probably doesn't care :)
Personally, I think the media would be interested in KS regardless of where he is kept; as seen by this and other threads, the general public have really invested in this horse and want to know how he is getting on.

Regarding why Laura would want him in the yard- he is a paying livery so is already helping to finance the business.
Maybe she wants some of the spotlight to use as free publicity for her business?
Maybe she doesn't 'need' his box for a more profitable horse and is simply enjoying her time with a racing legend?

If 'Ms Average' knows so little about ex-racers she thinks they need to be at a pro yard and takes the experience of this one horse as gospel, I'd question whether that particular Ms Average is suited to owning an ex-racer anyway.
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I totally agree, very well said. Attheend of the day he is in very good hands. If he'd sent him to mrs Average, he would have been criticised for that too no doubt.
 
cptrayes said:
I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely weird what seems to be happening now.

He's in a top class eventer's yard when it is clear that he can never be a top class eventer, if only because of his age and mileage on the clock. I thought he was there just for assessment but it doesn't seem so. If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage? There are plenty on this forum, at least two qualifying them for the regionals.

The horse is well and happy and that's all that really matters.

I just don't understand what the owner is playing at, and I begin to see what the racing folk who were so anti him were getting at. At the moment the horse seems to be being used to keep Clive in the media. And I don't understand either why Laura wants to bung up a place in her yard with a horse she can't train on and sell to finance her business and which will never compete at any decent level at eventing.

I'd like to think that Clive is doing this to publicise what ex racers can do, for the greater good of ex racers. But if so, Kauto being with an eventing pro is not going to prove to Ms Average looking for a horse that she can manage to retrain a racing TB, and no-one else in the horse world needs the message, do they?

I just don't understand this at all :confused:
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His horse, his choice.

As for successfully competing a retrain racehorse to regional dressage...a little difference a horse run 3 times to one with a career like ks. ;)
 
I think that for two months training, he looks great and if he is calm and relaxed, he will progress so much quicker. Best of luck to Laura Collett and Kauto Star's owner, you're doing a great job :)
 
cptrayes said:
If the plan for him is to do low level dressage, why is he with an eventer and not with one of the many, many people who can succesfully reschool a racehorse to do decent lower level dressage?
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I think everything was pretty much said by millitiger, but also, Laura has a strong dressage element to her eventing. Especially with Rayef, I remember in the 4* dressage test as a warm up to the Olympics, she beat all of the Olympic riders and horses, 3rd after the dressage warm up at Barbury. Also, she's almost always up the rankings after day 1. So I think this may have played a part in the decision.

There are other factors obviously, I'm just mentioning this.
 
If i where laura collett id feel privileged to be riding KS.

As long as the horse gets a varied, fun lifestyle with little pressure I am happy. He should, in my opinion, be jumping, hacking and schooling with turnout.

He shouldn't be jumped, hacked and turned out as a one off and schooled all the time as that's just putting unnecessary pressure on (he will never have a dressage career).

He should be turned out like an average horse (everyday) and jumping shouldn't be a one off treat neither should hacking.

For me, the most important thing is for KS to have a relaxed, chilled, low pressure retirement which he enjoys and i think with a variety of hacking jumping schooling and turnout that is easy to achieve.
 
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