Kentisheventer
Well-Known Member
amazing... but id have preferred it had the commentator pronounced his name kauto rather than corto! 
kauto star
- Thread starter lucretia
- Start date
lar
Well-Known Member
But I do wish people would stop doing Denman down. What he achieved last season was astonishing. It's too easy to say KS wasn't at his best in the Gold Cup. M(V)HO of it was that the reason KS didn't shine at Cheltenham was because the relentless gallop set by Denman simply broke his heart and he just could not live with it.
And KS DID have something to prove in the King George today - he was NEVER going to win the Betfair at Haydock even before his last fence slip up.
Denman for me was the horse of the year last year. How much his long lay off will affect him remains to be seen though.
And KS DID have something to prove in the King George today - he was NEVER going to win the Betfair at Haydock even before his last fence slip up.
Denman for me was the horse of the year last year. How much his long lay off will affect him remains to be seen though.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Erm.......who's ''doing Denman down''????
It's solely a matter of opinion as to whether or not KS ran to form last year, that's not knocking Denman???
It's solely a matter of opinion as to whether or not KS ran to form last year, that's not knocking Denman???
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Now would'nt a dream of a Gold Cup or a King George V1 be Captain Christy; Bula; Denman; Dessie; Kauto Star; and last but not least Arkle.
As great as Bula was Captain Christy annialated him by outgalloping him twice. Least not we forget CC winning the Gold Cup as a novice, and the King George defeat of Bula by a whopping 30 lengths. And like KS he was prone to the same tendancy of making some huge blunders at fences.
How lucky and priviliged we are to see these greats in our lifetimes.
As great as Bula was Captain Christy annialated him by outgalloping him twice. Least not we forget CC winning the Gold Cup as a novice, and the King George defeat of Bula by a whopping 30 lengths. And like KS he was prone to the same tendancy of making some huge blunders at fences.
How lucky and priviliged we are to see these greats in our lifetimes.
JM07
Well-Known Member
Dessie had far more appetite for a fight at the finish.
KS is a bottler..i'd be interested to watch what happens at Cheltenham when he makes his usual last fence blunder if WOA is upside him...he'd bottle it half way up the run in..Dessie would never back down..far more gutsy...take Dessies win in the 1989 Victor Chandler..beating Panto Prince by a short head giving Panto a whopping 22lbs!!!!
Dessie won the 1990 Racing Post Trophy carrying 12st 3lb!!!
Dont forget he also won the Irish National by 12 lengths carrying 12st!
the above record will never be equalled in my lifetime i'm sure of that.
to compare horses of different generations is unfair, but if we have to, i'm afraid KS isn't within 12lbs of the great Desert Orchid
no horse before ...(except Himself (Arkle) or since has given weight away, sometimes it was up to 2 stones!!! and still won his races.
KS is a bottler..i'd be interested to watch what happens at Cheltenham when he makes his usual last fence blunder if WOA is upside him...he'd bottle it half way up the run in..Dessie would never back down..far more gutsy...take Dessies win in the 1989 Victor Chandler..beating Panto Prince by a short head giving Panto a whopping 22lbs!!!!
Dessie won the 1990 Racing Post Trophy carrying 12st 3lb!!!
Dont forget he also won the Irish National by 12 lengths carrying 12st!
the above record will never be equalled in my lifetime i'm sure of that.
to compare horses of different generations is unfair, but if we have to, i'm afraid KS isn't within 12lbs of the great Desert Orchid
no horse before ...(except Himself (Arkle) or since has given weight away, sometimes it was up to 2 stones!!! and still won his races.
LizzieJ
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
amazing... but id have preferred it had the commentator pronounced his name kauto rather than corto!
[/ QUOTE ]
According to his owner the commentators are getting it right now having been calling him Kato star for years
Afterall, how do you say auto?
amazing... but id have preferred it had the commentator pronounced his name kauto rather than corto!
[/ QUOTE ]
According to his owner the commentators are getting it right now having been calling him Kato star for years
Fantasy_World
Well-Known Member
Well I will always call him Kato as Kauto sounds pretty damned naff to me.
Anyway watched the race around my mums on boxing day and it was the only race I managed to watch as no one around me is into horse racing at all so when it comes to holidays etc I am screwed. Good job I record all the racing to watch and rewatch as I please, but have just not had chance to watch it back yet.
From what I saw of the race, KS was amazing but that last fence blunder was a worry again. I just cannot get my head around it. He is either going that well he forgets how to jump and just fiddles or else has a total lapse of concentration at that point. Still an amazing win though. I fancied Voy por tbh but feel as though he didn't quite stay over this trip in a race as hot as it was. Still think he may get 3 miles in time though, maybe next year.
Kauto is back to his best and one does have to wonder whether Haydock is perhaps not his track now. Yes he may need time between races but I just don't feel that was the only reason for his lacklustre performance at Haydock. Some horses can develop a bias for a track or particular going and Haydock so I believe is one of those tracks where it can get 'gluey' when wet. So perhaps there was a combination of things. My only worry for Cheltenham though if he is to kept fresh for the race, is if he is too fresh. Now we know he can fiddle fences even when he does make mistakes but one would hope that he settles in March and doesn't race with too much zest and tries to overjump any, especially at the business end.
I will be looking forward to March.
Well done to them both on Boxing Day though and it was nice to see Ruby re-united with his old pal
Caz
Anyway watched the race around my mums on boxing day and it was the only race I managed to watch as no one around me is into horse racing at all so when it comes to holidays etc I am screwed. Good job I record all the racing to watch and rewatch as I please, but have just not had chance to watch it back yet.
From what I saw of the race, KS was amazing but that last fence blunder was a worry again. I just cannot get my head around it. He is either going that well he forgets how to jump and just fiddles or else has a total lapse of concentration at that point. Still an amazing win though. I fancied Voy por tbh but feel as though he didn't quite stay over this trip in a race as hot as it was. Still think he may get 3 miles in time though, maybe next year.
Kauto is back to his best and one does have to wonder whether Haydock is perhaps not his track now. Yes he may need time between races but I just don't feel that was the only reason for his lacklustre performance at Haydock. Some horses can develop a bias for a track or particular going and Haydock so I believe is one of those tracks where it can get 'gluey' when wet. So perhaps there was a combination of things. My only worry for Cheltenham though if he is to kept fresh for the race, is if he is too fresh. Now we know he can fiddle fences even when he does make mistakes but one would hope that he settles in March and doesn't race with too much zest and tries to overjump any, especially at the business end.
I will be looking forward to March.
Well done to them both on Boxing Day though and it was nice to see Ruby re-united with his old pal
Caz
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Sorry, can't help myself, Caz, but about to disagree re some of the Haydock points!
They went no pace, which he needs, and when PN had a pop at Sam, I don't think for a second it was for Sam falling off, it was because he didn't do what (I believe) Ruby would have had the confidence to do in the same scenario which is take it up earlier and leave them standing. Like the Ascot race. The horse has the pace to travel at any trip, but he doesn't have a spurt of speed to burn at a finish.
I do agree that a gluey Haydock is not grist to his mill, but it's also left handed which may well be a contributory factor in his performances there. And Cheltenham. However, I think KS has class to burn, but will always be found out by a serious slogger (make no mistake, I applaud Denman, he was a proper class winner, I just wait for his Tingle Creek or KG wins....!
) going left handed in horrible ground.
Fast ground Cheltenham.............. bring it on!!!!
They went no pace, which he needs, and when PN had a pop at Sam, I don't think for a second it was for Sam falling off, it was because he didn't do what (I believe) Ruby would have had the confidence to do in the same scenario which is take it up earlier and leave them standing. Like the Ascot race. The horse has the pace to travel at any trip, but he doesn't have a spurt of speed to burn at a finish.
I do agree that a gluey Haydock is not grist to his mill, but it's also left handed which may well be a contributory factor in his performances there. And Cheltenham. However, I think KS has class to burn, but will always be found out by a serious slogger (make no mistake, I applaud Denman, he was a proper class winner, I just wait for his Tingle Creek or KG wins....!
Fast ground Cheltenham.............. bring it on!!!!
kerilli
Well-Known Member
I agree with JM07, Dessie gave a huge amount of weight away and was an out-and-out battler. Also, he was a really really clever jumper, he put himself right for his fences and I very rarely saw him blunder. He had a huge will to win and wasn't fazed by having others jump upsides him etc iirc. KS makes those jumping blunders which put my heart in my mouth.
I remember a commentator (could have been JF, can't recall) saying that Dessie was so clever and enough of an athlete that he could have been a top eventer, or gone show-jumping... i wonder how many other top NH horses we'd believe that of? Just a question, not really dissing KS who doesn't have much to touch him at the moment, but I know which one i'd rather be sitting on!
I remember a commentator (could have been JF, can't recall) saying that Dessie was so clever and enough of an athlete that he could have been a top eventer, or gone show-jumping... i wonder how many other top NH horses we'd believe that of? Just a question, not really dissing KS who doesn't have much to touch him at the moment, but I know which one i'd rather be sitting on!
hadfos
Well-Known Member
Sadly i missed the race...but was soooo hunting out the results that night
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
lucretia
Well-Known Member
i think wayward lad won three at least on the bounce and so did des but kauto would be younger than both of those when he won his first?
katherinef
Well-Known Member
Kauto is a top class act but Denman galloped him into the ground i March. Kauto is vulnerable when taken on. If he can dictate he is a better horse.
I couldn't compare Kauto with Desert Orchid - Desert Orchid was in a league of his own and his jumping alone would have seen off Kauto - remember Dessie standing off from outside the wings - breathtaking? Added to that you have the mix of Desert Orchid's really electrifying turn of foot - Kauto would have been no match for Desert Orchid on his day.
As for Denman, well, he has had his problems since Cheltenham but I hope he can come back as he has the potential to be a great horse - he is a really smashing old fashioned type of chaser.
I couldn't compare Kauto with Desert Orchid - Desert Orchid was in a league of his own and his jumping alone would have seen off Kauto - remember Dessie standing off from outside the wings - breathtaking? Added to that you have the mix of Desert Orchid's really electrifying turn of foot - Kauto would have been no match for Desert Orchid on his day.
As for Denman, well, he has had his problems since Cheltenham but I hope he can come back as he has the potential to be a great horse - he is a really smashing old fashioned type of chaser.
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sadly i missed the race...but was soooo hunting out the results that night
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
[/ QUOTE ]
dessie did '88, '89, '90
kauto did '06, '07, '08
Sadly i missed the race...but was soooo hunting out the results that night
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
[/ QUOTE ]
dessie did '88, '89, '90
kauto did '06, '07, '08
katherinef
Well-Known Member
Desert Orchid won the King George four times - won in 1986, second ,1987 then won for the next three consecutive years. Thats coupled with winning an Irish National, Whitbread Gold Cup and Cheltenham Gold Cup! Rather incredibly despite winning at distances over 3m plus he was quick enough to win top two mile chases too such as the Tingle Creek Chase. Probably his best performance was when winning the 1990 Racing Post Chase - Desert Orchid carried top weight of 12-3 giving two stones away to the rest of the field.
in short Kauto is good but has some way to go to emulate Desert Orchid.
in short Kauto is good but has some way to go to emulate Desert Orchid.
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Desert Orchid won the King George four times - won in 1986, second ,1987 then won for the next three consecutive years. Thats coupled with winning an Irish National, Whitbread Gold Cup and Cheltenham Gold Cup! Rather incredibly despite winning at distances over 3m plus he was quick enough to win top two mile chases too such as the Tingle Creek Chase. Probably his best performance was when winning the 1990 Racing Post Chase - Desert Orchid carried top weight of 12-3 giving two stones away to the rest of the field.
in short Kauto is good but has some way to go to emulate Desert Orchid.
[/ QUOTE ]
totally agree...
Desert Orchid won the King George four times - won in 1986, second ,1987 then won for the next three consecutive years. Thats coupled with winning an Irish National, Whitbread Gold Cup and Cheltenham Gold Cup! Rather incredibly despite winning at distances over 3m plus he was quick enough to win top two mile chases too such as the Tingle Creek Chase. Probably his best performance was when winning the 1990 Racing Post Chase - Desert Orchid carried top weight of 12-3 giving two stones away to the rest of the field.
in short Kauto is good but has some way to go to emulate Desert Orchid.
[/ QUOTE ]
totally agree...
Fantasy_World
Well-Known Member
I also totally agree about Dessie and I think for me personally was his ability to win such high class races over a wide variety of trips. From 2miles to the 3miles 5f of the Irish National he was truly amazing. It was not as though he was stepping up in trip either as some horse do with age, he was simply a true athlete. Game, and very versatile. I can remember having a debate about Dessie some years back on another forum, think it may have been Friends Reunited as I used to post on the horse racing section on that some years ago before the boards got closed down.
Dessie was and still is a true champion in my eyes and although I have since seen some truly amazing chasers none have even come within a hair's breadth of rivalling the admiration I had for that grey.
Dessie was and still is a true champion in my eyes and although I have since seen some truly amazing chasers none have even come within a hair's breadth of rivalling the admiration I had for that grey.
hadfos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sadly i missed the race...but was soooo hunting out the results that night
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
[/ QUOTE ]
dessie did '88, '89, '90
kauto did '06, '07, '08
[/ QUOTE ]
i stand corrected
i read something somewhere and am sure they got dates wrong
still...dessie was great but i didnt follow racing then like i did now....i just have a soft spot for ruby and kauto
...and hope he can keep it up
[ QUOTE ]
Sadly i missed the race...but was soooo hunting out the results that night
The horse is awesome....they putting him with dessie?but isnt he the only one to win the king george 3 consecutive yrs??
[/ QUOTE ]
dessie did '88, '89, '90
kauto did '06, '07, '08
[/ QUOTE ]
i stand corrected
i read something somewhere and am sure they got dates wrong
still...dessie was great but i didnt follow racing then like i did now....i just have a soft spot for ruby and kauto
katherinef
Well-Known Member
his jumping was amazing, standing off outside the wings with his legs waving around his ears! No disrespect to Best Mate/ Kauto et al but Dessie was the best by a long long way.
Mind you even Desert Orchid has to play second fiddle to Arkle...
Mind you even Desert Orchid has to play second fiddle to Arkle...
yeeharider
Well-Known Member
off the stats do you think Dessie was more special bcause he was grey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lucretia
Well-Known Member
yeah so do i and i can remember well before Dessie. it is that glorious cantering over the opposition that he does when at his best. Like captain christy in the seventies. and the amazing jumping of pendil, unbeaten in eleven races before he wnt to cheltenham and it took horses as good as captain christy and the dilker to beat him. dawn run, good enough and versatile enough for a champion hurdle and a cheltenham gold cup beating a horse that also had multiple wins in the king george.
racing memories are very short and dess was a great horse but there have been a few up their who had their careers curtailed by injury or worse. his outstanding feature to me was that he was tough enough to stay sound through all those seasons racing. but he never took my breath away like crisp in the grand national or the captain galloping past pendil like he wasnt even there.
it is all personal opinion of course because if it was just about statistics there never was a horse as good as arkle, and there probably never will be.
racing memories are very short and dess was a great horse but there have been a few up their who had their careers curtailed by injury or worse. his outstanding feature to me was that he was tough enough to stay sound through all those seasons racing. but he never took my breath away like crisp in the grand national or the captain galloping past pendil like he wasnt even there.
it is all personal opinion of course because if it was just about statistics there never was a horse as good as arkle, and there probably never will be.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
i did mention that earlier....... hence this debate i think!
lucretia
Well-Known Member
and if we are talking of superlative jumping there is an iconic photo of pendil taking offoutside the wings that is in loads of books but try as i might i cant find it on line. Des wasnt the only one to be a brilliant jumper.
.
.
katherinef
Well-Known Member
I dont think Desert Orchid was more special because he was grey, he was special as he was one of the best racehorses we've seen for a very long time. He was more distinctive and took racing to a wider audience but then Arkle did that and he was bay.
Desert Orchid wasnt the only chaser to be a brilliant jumper but he had a lot of other qualities in spades which when mixed together produced something very special.
Arkle or Arkle's stablemate Flyingbolt would have been better than Desert Orchid but these three probably stand at the top of the chasing tree.
looking at ratings alone - arkle was 212,Flyingbolt 210 Mill House 191 and Desert Orchid 187 - Kauto is currently 182 with Denman at 180. So the potential for Kauto to surpass Desert Orchid is there but he is still a few pounds behind the grey horse.
Desert Orchid wasnt the only chaser to be a brilliant jumper but he had a lot of other qualities in spades which when mixed together produced something very special.
Arkle or Arkle's stablemate Flyingbolt would have been better than Desert Orchid but these three probably stand at the top of the chasing tree.
looking at ratings alone - arkle was 212,Flyingbolt 210 Mill House 191 and Desert Orchid 187 - Kauto is currently 182 with Denman at 180. So the potential for Kauto to surpass Desert Orchid is there but he is still a few pounds behind the grey horse.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Sorry, this in anorak mode
to show why I don't think KS and Dessie can be fairly compared. (Other than it being nearly impossible to compare generations)
To me Dessie was amazing because he never shirked a contest, and he gave the best weight carrying performances over a series of trips since Arkle. He also had terrible soundness issues with corns, often the cause of his less brilliant performances.
In his last two seasons he was still giving amazing performances.
As an 11yo, he carried 12-3 and gave away 2 stone to win the Racing Post Chase easily by eight lengths.
In the Irish National he was giving 2 stone to the second, and won by 12 lengths.
As a 12yo, he gave 21lb to win the Agfa chase, albeit only 3/4 of a length, but still incredible.
Before that were his wins in the Tingle Creek when it was a handicap, and the Victor Chandler etc.
I also think had the horse had Dunwoody on board for more of his runs, it may have been a greater tally.
Kauto Star has only twice had to carry top weight.
The first time was in 2006 giving 9lb to Armaturk at Aintree in the Old Roan chase. It was awesome and effortless, but he really didn't beat much, and the second was a true 2 miler.
The second time was giving 10lb to L'Ami at Newbury in 2007 Aon Chase, and he only beat him by a neck.
They have avoided all races bar level weights since.
Now I love KS and want him to win his crown back, I think when they keep him fresh he's top class and a joy to watch. But the benchmark, (if you use Arkle) is the ability to win championship races over differing trips and give weight away in big handicaps. I doubt they'll go that route with him, they don't need to, as PN has a horse for every race and Denman will fill the weight carrying 3m+ slot admirably, and Master Minded will be unsurpassable over 2m if things fall his way.
So to me, KS is not yet close to matching Dessie, and I also doubt he'll ever be given the opportunity.
As far as other horses go, there are loads of them. See More Business might have won another Gold Cup had he not been carried out by AP. Gloria Victis was a criminal waste. And so on.
I'm just going to enjoy watching Kauto Star, hope he stays sound and well for the rest of his career, and feel priviledged to be able to see him in action. Can't wait for the Gold Cup, and let's hope the ground is good this year!
To me Dessie was amazing because he never shirked a contest, and he gave the best weight carrying performances over a series of trips since Arkle. He also had terrible soundness issues with corns, often the cause of his less brilliant performances.
In his last two seasons he was still giving amazing performances.
As an 11yo, he carried 12-3 and gave away 2 stone to win the Racing Post Chase easily by eight lengths.
In the Irish National he was giving 2 stone to the second, and won by 12 lengths.
As a 12yo, he gave 21lb to win the Agfa chase, albeit only 3/4 of a length, but still incredible.
Before that were his wins in the Tingle Creek when it was a handicap, and the Victor Chandler etc.
I also think had the horse had Dunwoody on board for more of his runs, it may have been a greater tally.
Kauto Star has only twice had to carry top weight.
The first time was in 2006 giving 9lb to Armaturk at Aintree in the Old Roan chase. It was awesome and effortless, but he really didn't beat much, and the second was a true 2 miler.
The second time was giving 10lb to L'Ami at Newbury in 2007 Aon Chase, and he only beat him by a neck.
They have avoided all races bar level weights since.
Now I love KS and want him to win his crown back, I think when they keep him fresh he's top class and a joy to watch. But the benchmark, (if you use Arkle) is the ability to win championship races over differing trips and give weight away in big handicaps. I doubt they'll go that route with him, they don't need to, as PN has a horse for every race and Denman will fill the weight carrying 3m+ slot admirably, and Master Minded will be unsurpassable over 2m if things fall his way.
So to me, KS is not yet close to matching Dessie, and I also doubt he'll ever be given the opportunity.
As far as other horses go, there are loads of them. See More Business might have won another Gold Cup had he not been carried out by AP. Gloria Victis was a criminal waste. And so on.
I'm just going to enjoy watching Kauto Star, hope he stays sound and well for the rest of his career, and feel priviledged to be able to see him in action. Can't wait for the Gold Cup, and let's hope the ground is good this year!
lucretia
Well-Known Member
i am not entirely disagreeing but dessie often didnt beat much either there was a dearth of good chasers at one point but like in flat racing i shouldnt think either Arazi or Dncing Brave are rated the best horses ever but it will be a long time before i ever see anything as awe inspiring as arazi winning the breeders cup junvenile or dancing brave winning the arc. and i remember the likes of mill reef and nijinsky both of whom were probably rated better but that is not what i am talking about. it is the contemptuous ease with which certain horses win that i love, like shergar in the derby. Glint of gold was a very good horse and in a normal year would have won the derby by three lengths but shergar cantered past him. and thats what i love about kauto, he just didnt come off the bridle either at kemton or in his gold cup win and maybe denman did beat him but he nearly killed himself to do it and like when horses got past arkle a fair few were never the same afterwards. so i say roll on cheltenham.
oh and katherine can you stop changing the title of this thread because i started it, in admiration of a certain horse and am enjoying lively debate but changing the title because you are such a fan of certain others rather reflects on your objectivity i think.
oh and katherine can you stop changing the title of this thread because i started it, in admiration of a certain horse and am enjoying lively debate but changing the title because you are such a fan of certain others rather reflects on your objectivity i think.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
He could only beat what he ran against, and he broke a few horses hearts of those who tried........
Dancing Brave was a god! And he did win enough to be lauded, he just didn't do much as a stallion, ( barring Commander-in-Chief) which is why he's now off the radar. If only Grevill hadn't ridden like a f***wit in the Derby.........
I'd say Hawk Wing as well is one that fits your bill of winning with contemptuous ease, similar to Arazi, but he didn't maintain it throughout his races. To me they are special performances, as opposed to consistent brilliance. Lochsong too, when she elected to wait for the race (instead of bolting to post) before she showed the world her blistering speed.
Denman was so impressive in the Gold Cup, but that wasn't the best of KS that showed up. And a great horse has to keep returning. Let's see if D does. The Gold Cup is littered with perfromances that horses never came back from.
Bring it on!!!
Dancing Brave was a god! And he did win enough to be lauded, he just didn't do much as a stallion, ( barring Commander-in-Chief) which is why he's now off the radar. If only Grevill hadn't ridden like a f***wit in the Derby.........
I'd say Hawk Wing as well is one that fits your bill of winning with contemptuous ease, similar to Arazi, but he didn't maintain it throughout his races. To me they are special performances, as opposed to consistent brilliance. Lochsong too, when she elected to wait for the race (instead of bolting to post) before she showed the world her blistering speed.
Denman was so impressive in the Gold Cup, but that wasn't the best of KS that showed up. And a great horse has to keep returning. Let's see if D does. The Gold Cup is littered with perfromances that horses never came back from.
Bring it on!!!
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Lu - you must be nearly as old as me if you remember all this lot first hand <GG>! How about Secretariat while on the topic of greats? Terrimon's little legs going like the clappers to finish 2nd to Nashwan at 500-1. Brigadier Gerard? Red Alligator's superb jumping display under Brian Fletcher to win the 1968 Grand National. I think we are all blessed to witness and have memories of these wonderful horses in our lifetimes. Great thread.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
If you're touching on American greats, I adored Cigar! One of the few horses to ignite dirt racing for me..........
cefyl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If you're touching on American greats, I adored Cigar! One of the few horses to ignite dirt racing for me..........
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yes- what a shame his potential was not recognised until a 4yr old, just think had he been with a different trainer as a 2 / 3 yr old he could have been a triple crown prospect. What a pedigree too, shame he is infertile.
If you're touching on American greats, I adored Cigar! One of the few horses to ignite dirt racing for me..........
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yes- what a shame his potential was not recognised until a 4yr old, just think had he been with a different trainer as a 2 / 3 yr old he could have been a triple crown prospect. What a pedigree too, shame he is infertile.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Did he change trainers, Cefyl?
I only knew about him from when the Dubai build up started.
It was a real shame he was infertile. What did they do with him?
He'd have been a certainty in a novice hurdle!!
I only knew about him from when the Dubai build up started.
It was a real shame he was infertile. What did they do with him?
He'd have been a certainty in a novice hurdle!!