Keeping condition in thoroughbreds

weesophz

weesophz

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I own a 15.2hh 10 year old tb ex racer, who is currently on box rest with a bad fracture to his radius. Since he came in (about 3 months ago) his condition dropped dramatically as he wasnt out in the feild eating 24/7. I have upped his hay intake to as much as i can and he is on mainly a hi fibre diet and molass free hi-fi at the moment. i was advised not to feed him conditioning feeds as these can be quite high in sugar and he is highly strung anyway due to being in. is there anything anyone can advise to help me help him put on some weight, maybe a feed theyve tried or something? i need him to plump up for the winter months! Thanks in advance :)
 
A lot of the condition loss will be due to muscle wastage due to inactivity and there is a limit to what you can usefully do, he does not want excess weight anyway, so I would make sure he is getting plenty of hay and or haylage plus vits and mins, it might be worthwhile asking Feedmark for their advice as they have a range of supplements to cater for all sorts of conditions.
Perhaps Steady up Advance.
You can use Speedy Beet to carry any supplements.
Check out Allen and Page, they also give good advice.
http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Specialist-Feeds/L-Mix.aspx
Try one of these feed balls with some treat type nuts to reduce stress, and faff around with extra grooming and light massage.
He will may need a light rug, as he is not able to generate heat when stabled, it depends on his coat and if he looks cold.
 
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MrsD123 said:
A lot of the condition loss will be due to muscle wastage due to inactivity and there is a limit to what you can usefully do, he does not want excess weight anyway, so I would make sure he is getting plenty of hay and or haylage plus vits and mins, it might be worthwhile asking Feedmark for their advice as they have a range of supplements to cater for all sorts of conditions.
Perhaps Steady up Advance.
You can use Speedy Beet to carry any supplements.
Check out Allen and Page, they also give good advice.
http://www.allenandpage.com/Products/Specialist-Feeds/L-Mix.aspx
Try one of these feed balls with some treat type nuts to reduce stress, and faff around with extra grooming and light massage.
He will may need a light rug, as he is not able to generate heat when stabled, it depends on his coat and if he looks cold.
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yeah thats great thanks :) he just looks so ribby i feel bad! ill check out that link, thank you!
 
Totally agree with Mrs D, with tbs muscle wastage makes them look like there lacking weight , i go by eye on my 26 year old ex racer by looking over her bottom and her belly which by the way is inevitably sagged and pulls the skin over her ribs which show in winter less in summer by her moving around more thus building muscle, how ever i cannot feed startchy cereal to her , so ive opted for the last 4 years for alpha a and oil thank/goodness for good teeth,
full fat micronized linseed for charnwood milling, vit e, salt,speedy beet, and this year in giving cool stance copra a go ,she lives out on 50 acres in winter coming in for about 4 hours during the day but eats loads of hay and haylage ,
my mare has been slim looking all her life, lucky girl if only some of it would rub off on me, i just accept that she was never meant to be fat
 
We've found Saracen's Releve and their Equijewel to be excellent. Put on the weight gently and has not, to date, fizzed up either the ex-racers or DWB. Haven't yet found a horse that doesn't like either and can be fed in small quantities.

The lack of muscle is going to make your lad look 'wrong' to you, but that will come back when he's back in work.

Lots of hay/haylage. When a friend's TB was on box rest, he had three or four nets up day and night. Kept his teeth and gut busy and he looked okay throughout.

Hope your lad heals quickly and well.
 
Please don't think that conditioning feeds mean sugar and starch, they really don't. You just need to understand about starch and sugar content, which is not always indicated on the bag or on the website info. I'd start with a good balancer like Top Spec so you know all vitamins and minerals are cvovered, however much or little feed you need in terms of energy and conditioning.

Then think about low starch feeds to add. Hi Fi would be okay for a good doer, but is a low calorie feed and not about adding weight. There are lots of chaffs with more energy content - look for the DE figures to compare. There are other straights like beet, linseed, grass nuts, copra.....pure oils as well.

In terms of traditional one bag feeds, Allen & Page Quite Mix has 28% starch which is at least three times as much as I'd be looking for! L Mix is better but is NOT conditioing at a DE of only 7. Top Spec balancer is under 10% starch and sugar combined and i'd be looking for the same. Top Spec make several non-fortifed (ie no added vits and mins) feeds to be added to their balancer which are mainly low starch (not the flakes). COmplete feeds like ERS pellets, Re-Leve and some of the Winergy Equilibrium products are low in starch and sugars and high in good slow release energy, often from oil. I always say that if you can see maize, peas or beans in the feed then it WILL be high starch. Even oats and barley are better than those ingredients though personally I'd avoid them, the horse's digestive system is just not cut out to deal with them properly.

There is plenty of info on the web about low starch feeding - it is starch and sugar that send horses loopy, and cause other issues as well. It's worth reading up so you can make your own feeding choices.
 
thanks for your help everyone. ive had him for 3 years and when i got him he had been starved for several months so i get overly paranoid when he gets skinny, doesnt help that he was looking so good before his injury! looks like ive got some feed research to be doing! thank you everyone :)
 
SIMPLE SYSTEMS amazing stuff TB do very well on it and you can feed large amount of various fiber products and its very cheep! Swear by it i have now had 3 TB's one of which has 8 months on box rest and got through it level headed and well conditioned! :D Good Luck http://www.simplesystemhorsefeeds.co.uk/products/feeds.asp?id=31&name=Thoroughbreds Also if you call them they do trial packs of feed as it is sugar free can take time for horses to get enthusiatic about it!
 
What about 'ready grass' - it's dried grass so might help.

My TB is also currenlty on box rest and so far she's doing fine on as much hay or haylage she wants (currently choosing hay over haylage which I thought was interesting) and then two feeds a day of top spec balancer, happy hoof and speedi beet. Unfortunately I have to keep her protien and oil levels low because of a dodgy liver but you could also try adding oil.
 
I make sure my TB has a low sugar diet because I just don't want to risk any chance of laminitis. However, he needs condition to keep his topline and coat tip top. I did my research and found that Spillers Conditioning Cubes fantastic. I swear by it. Within four weeks my TB's coat became so glossy and his topline is fabulous and he's as quiet as a lamb.

Altogether I feed him Spillers Cool Mix, Conditioning Cubes and Dodson and Horrell Safe n Sound. Now winter's here I add Fibre-Beet to his meals. I make sure his diet is as high in fibre as possible, yet low in sugar. Obviously he needs some sugar so I don't cut it out entirely. I think your TB will be find on Conditioning Cubes.

Hope you find what you want!
 
http://www.stanceequine.com.au/horsefeedproducts.php?CoolStance-Horse-Feed-2
Try this, it has practicall no sugars/starch so is not a 'fizzy' food and is great for putting weight on horses. You only need to feed a very small amount per day so a bag lasts quite a while. We soak ours first so it goes to a bran mash constitency rather than feed it dry and hope the horse drinks enough. It smells gorgeous and its great on your hands when mixing it in too!
 
Copra meal is FAB stuff.

Personally I would avoid Speedibeet as it's still 5% sugar and this DID make a difference with my tb.
 
I did an analysis for feeds a while back, drew a smart graph etc (geek, can't help it!) and to be honest there is very little differance in terms of starch/sugars/carbohydrates between the bog standard H&P cubes and conditioning versions.

What you do need to be watch out for is the protein levels which send my mare and many others loopy, for example, some swear by haylage/blue chip, other people have had bad experiences and avoid at all costs, this is protein overload. I found if I fed haylage OR blue chip in the winter (only!) then my horse looked well and kept her weight. I used to use baileys no4 but switch to a H&P cube and have not noticed any differance to be quite honest but we are on a yard with home grown haylage (so not as potent as the shop bought stuff) so that has helped.

Cubes are better than mix, generally because it is easier for the manufacturers to balance and control the ingredient quality and quantity, which is why the baileys conditioning mix is number 17 (cubes no 4). When feeding large amounts cubes are also most cost effective as you can feed slightly less.

You can get sugar beet which has not been molassed but fibre is unlikely to put on condition so other than a filler, don't worry about using that. My horse likes it but it is too much faff to soak etc just for one horse.

Chaffs that are lighly molassed are always good, honey chaff or apple chaff. Dengie products that are good to use are Alfa A or Alfa Oil which will help with condition without fizz.

I have had my TB for 10 years and met loads of others, including her siblings and they all have sugar issues or barley in some way or another. You will have to experiment for yourself but I hope that some of my experiences and information I have discovered helps a bit.

Hope your horse gets better really soon! xx
 
Loika said:
You can get sugar beet which has not been molassed but fibre is unlikely to put on condition so other than a filler, don't worry about using that.
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I'm sorry but that information is very misleading! Fibre WILL put condition on a horse! Unlike humans, horses can digest fibre well and therefore it is an important source of calories in the diet. Unmollassed sugar beet has a calorie count of about 12.5 MJDE/kg dry weight which is equivalent to many conditioning cubes/mixes. Other forms of fibre, particularly hay/haylage and grazing are important in keeping weight on poor doers.
 
Agreed. Forage based feeding is the very best natural way to get weight on. Cereals, especially in TBs, can cause stereotypies and gut issues - did you know horses have less than 10% the level of enzymes (needed to digest starch) that pigs have? And pigs only eat starch in the autumn with nuts etc. Horses in the wild eat very little starch and are ill equipped to digest it.

There is a ton of evidence that protein does not cause fizziness. A few horses react to alfalfa in particular, some get fizzy, some get footy, but high protein is not an issue for horses apart from those with existing liver disease. The link with protein comes from traditional bagged feeds which are cereal based - to be high in energy and protein, for horses in hard work, they have to include a lot of cereal grains which are high in starch. So the high level of protein was stated on the bag, and protein got the bad rap. More modern feeds include soya, linseed etc to keep starch levels down.

If you look at the Allen & Page website, one of very few that do state starch levels, helpfully, there is a HUGE difference in starch levels. Some of the youngstock and conditioning feeds are 45% starch! Yet you can get conditioning high energy feeds which are under 10% very easily and certain ly can get low energy feeds that are low in starch. It is misleading to say they are all the same.

More and more manufacturers are starting to product low starch feeds - Pure Feeds for example. Someone mentioned Simple System who have been pioneers for the last decade or so with low starch feeding.

And to deal with two more details - nuts can sometimes have more added molasses as they need to bind the nut with something (check the figures, always!) and Blue Chip is also massively high in starch. Problem haylage is probably high in sugar - some are low and a good feed stuff even for horses sensitive to sugar.
 
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Loika said:
I did an analysis for feeds a while back, drew a smart graph etc (geek, can't help it!) and to be honest there is very little differance in terms of starch/sugars/carbohydrates between the bog standard H&P cubes and conditioning versions.
Click to expand...

i had him on the spillers conditoning cubes for a while, but was told to take him off of them by my vet as he became quite fizzy and we didnt want to risk further injury while he was out on his 5 minute walks. ive been experimenting with everything over the past few months, but i find sticking to things high in fiber work well, especially as he is a windsucker and the fiber helps ease this.

he's quite a fussy eater too so it doesnt help!

thanks everyone for your help, im taking notes haha!
 
I'd add a scoop or two A&P fast fibre and a couple of tea spoons of brewer's yeast to his feed, along with some linseed oil perhaps. A&P FF is the highest fibre hard feed I've found (if anyone can point me in the direction of higher, please do :)) it's 33% fibre.

Brewer's yeast may help settle him if he's stressing too :) It has with my TB

For muscle tone, you could try strapping him? It may make negligible difference, but worth a go :p

J&C
 
Haylege balancer can help underweight horses keep condition and ensure that they get the right vitamins and minerals. Also make sure that he is kept warm through the winter months. I'm a big fan of letting horses get a nice thick coat, but if he is on box rest he will definitely need to be rugged up because he can't move around or huddle with other horses to keep warm.
 
I would personally recommend ERS pellets, to add condition whilst not fizzing him up. Starch levels are only 7% off the top of my head but with one of the highest DE levels in commercial conditioning feeds
 
Probiotics have worked on my hard-keeper. I use Protexin Pro-soothe pH as she tends to have stomach acidity (it's got kaolin, calcium carbonate, magnesium, prebiotics and probiotics). She's much more relaxed when she's on it.
 
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