Keeping in in bad weather

[Tiddlypom]

But what qualifies for dangerous conditions? There is a hard sub text on this thread of inferring that many people could turn their horses out in bad weather if only they pulled their fingers out, weren’t so precious, and tried a bit harder. Clear a track etc.

Horses can and do break legs on frozen rutted ground, and if someone elects to protect their horse from that risk until the ground thaws they are being told off for thinking of themselves first and of not allowing a horse to be a horse.

I stick by my assertion that my all horses (current and past, inc the RSPCA fosters) love being in their stables. My current two would be very happy to come in every night and to be turned out all day, the stables are their safe space for to a complete chill and a snooze. If other people’s horses hate being stabled even for part of the day, then I know not why .

Any horse should be comfortable to be stabled for at least a few hours in case of accident, sickness, injury or emergency. Set them up to succeed by making their stables welcoming if need be, even if they live out for most of the time. Apart from a few outliers, and there will always be those with history who hate being stabled, it can usually be done.

I absolutely don’t condone horses being stabled for weeks or months at a time for no good reason. I don’t count overstocking as a good reason.

 

[teapot]

I think there's a discussion to be had over whether people have got 'softer' when it comes to weather, duvet days, and I include that in what's better for the human over what's better for the horse in that (ie someone choosing not to deal with soggy rugs and slippy mud because they can't be bothered, over their horse getting a leg stretch for example). You only have to see the instagram versus reality videos on social media to know people like showing off their pristine horse rugged to its eyeballs in a box...


I was working at a yard with 50+ horses out 24/7 regardless of weather, with decent tracks straight onto the standard concrete of the yard. During the winters, there were ample stacks of grit around the place, and in my time there (and knowing the yard before and after) they've never lost a horse due to frozen ground injuries, and they were out in big herds too. On the rare occasion something needed to be box-rested (and it was rare, maybe we were lucky with herd dynamics and general health), most settled quickly to a significant change in their way of living. The only one I know of that didn't was a quirky older chap who despite the vet knowing this, advised box rest, and he jumped out the first night... Did the rest of his rehab in the field!

 

[pistolpete]

Just to add some horses who have been habitualised to stables can still be deeply distressed by it. My highland would colic if kept in. He’s at grass livery now so ideal for him my older horse hated his stable. Box walked and would run to the back. Never completely happy. They are all different. I am always so grateful that I’m eleven years I never had to box rest Pete.

 

[Miss_Millie]

This thread has got me curious how many hours of daily stabling people think is acceptable if a horse must be stabled daily? Not judging as I know a lot of people are on livery stuck in difficult situations beyond their control, but say if the horses are 'stabled overnight', how many hours do people think is ethically acceptable to keep a horse in such a small space for?

 

[pistolpete]

This thread has got me curious how many hours of daily stabling people think is acceptable if a horse must be stabled daily? Not judging as I know a lot of people are on livery stuck in difficult situations beyond their control, but say if the horses are 'stabled overnight', how many hours do people think is ethically acceptable to keep a horse in such a small space for?

Maybe a subject for a new thread? I don’t think it’s ethical keeping them in at all but I’ve just outed myself as a pony patter! I would only keep in if they were unwell or there was zero turnout due to floods etc. shelter yes.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

This thread has got me curious how many hours of daily stabling people think is acceptable if a horse must be stabled daily? Not judging as I know a lot of people are on livery stuck in difficult situations beyond their control, but say if the horses are 'stabled overnight', how many hours do people think is ethically acceptable to keep a horse in such a small space for?

For me it's not how long I want them in for its how long they are happy out for!! This time of year they go out in the morning, turned out at 6am and in around 12. It's taken me 7 years to get my ridden one happy out in the winter at all so out for the morning is fine by me. As the weather and grass get better they are out longer and longer and out 24/7 in summer. They are not interested in going in the school in the evening, all they want is their tea!! So currently mine are out 6 hours a day, they are happy and very settled and that's the main thing.

 

[maya2008]

I think it depends a lot on what the ‘out’ option is. One of my little herds when at home, prefer to come in during the day for a rest and to eat. We have shooting and hunts literally across the road plus lots of dog walkers constantly passing the field. They’re not the most keen on humans and hide at the top during the day. At night, they happily use the whole field and can relax. So that is what we do. When at my friend’s yard, the fields are small but fine otherwise and it’s tucked away so no stress. They like being out during the day there - less hours, but it’s compensated for by the increased exercise that the arena offers and the feeling of safety in daylight.

In summer, mine are out 24/7 happily, but in a different field where they are more protected from the dog walkers and obviously there is no hunt/shooting. That field does not drain in winter, so it’s dog walkers or nothing at that point!

 

[AdorableAlice]

All the comments are interesting on this thread and show many differing opinions and methods. In my view every horse needs to be taught how to be happy and peaceful in a stable regardless of how they might find themselves being kept. That basic education will help them get through life and potentially differing methods of keeping when they change hands. It also covers stressful situations like injury requiring stabling. We all know horses like to self destruct and there would be nothing worse than a badly injured horse not being able to be saved because they won't stable.

My old lad lived his retirement with access to his house and the door always open to his variety of paddocks. We could predict the weather just by watching him. He would come trotting back to his house five minutes before rain started. he was more predictable than any weather app ! and getting wet was not acceptable regardless of good rugs.

 

[Barklands]

What a bizarre comment! I compete regularly, up to a decent level, and it’s entirely feasible for them to live out the whole time (365 24/7)
'Creature comforts' are entirely a man-made concept when it comes to horses. They’re happiest in a field with their mates (assuming it's a good field, big enough, with enough forage and natural shelter)

Only just seen your reply. Not exactly bizarre since we do top level showing. To have their coats looking right they have to be stabled overnight for the latter part of the winter. However, they are shoes off, rugs off and out 24/7 from end of October to mid December. If they didn't like their 'creature comforts' they wouldn't be stood at the gate asking to come in every evening. Some of ours are hardy but equally others are utterly miserable in the heavy wind and rain. And yes, we are very lucky to have very large turnout fields with hedgerows and a wood on the other side for shelter, yet they still ask to come in at the end of the day.

 

[Exasperated]

Heya which stud & boot combo do you use? Do you find it works ok even if there’s some non icey parts? Do you ever have issues with them studding themselves if lying down or rolling?

I’ve got one who needs boots on frozen ground and is generally fine in them but he did struggle a bit for grip on the days we had total sheet ice in places but he’s got no common sense and if he can injure himself with something he will! Debating studding the boots if this happens again but don’t want to then give him no grip on stuff like the matts which had been cleared of slush so didn’t freeze as badly. Aaaand also don’t want him to cut himself with them.

They were still out as currently nowhere for them to be in (I’m going to be honest and say if it had been an option (it wasn’t) I probably would have preferred to confine mine in a smaller, surfaced area that wasn’t rutted and was cleared of ice for the worst couple of days when they had to ice skate to get to the water just because of various ongoing health issues). They do have a very long matted section that they mainly stayed on which was ok most of the time (did get a bit slippery on the worst couple of days) but obviously they had to step off to pass each other and the path to the water isn’t matted as it drains super well so doesn’t normally need it.

If you just need bite for going across ice, a quick, easy and easily-removable solution are ‘ice spikes’.
Contact Carl, at Www.icegripper.co.uk, 32 ice spike studs plus applicator, c£35.
Can also ride in them fine, including on a hefty Percheron across unexpected black ice (heart-stopping to watch! but they just kept stomping on....).
Ice spikes don’t as last as long as the tungsten-tipped boot studs (the type that screw into Renegade hoof boots, as advertised for skjoring or ice racing), but ice spikes are a piece of cake to insert straight into whatever boot your horse wears, without any drilling. Runners use them for training in winter.
Ice spikes are much shorter than the meaty jumping studs designed for hoof boots, therefore not so proud from the base.
I do know someone who sometimes turns out in them, both for greasy surfaces and to cross a stretch of icy concrete before their field. She’s never had any injuries, her horses all get along well.

 

[Gloi]

Those look good. I got some studs I was going to put in my scoots a couple of years ago but had no joy as the soles of the boots I had hoped to stud weren't thick enough

 

[Boulty]

If you just need bite for going across ice, a quick, easy and easily-removable solution are ‘ice spikes’.
Contact Carl, at Www.icegripper.co.uk, 32 ice spike studs plus applicator, c£35.
Can also ride in them fine, including on a hefty Percheron across unexpected black ice (heart-stopping to watch! but they just kept stomping on....).
Ice spikes don’t as last as long as the tungsten-tipped boot studs (the type that screw into Renegade hoof boots, as advertised for skjoring or ice racing), but ice spikes are a piece of cake to insert straight into whatever boot your horse wears, without any drilling. Runners use them for training in winter.
Ice spikes are much shorter than the meaty jumping studs designed for hoof boots, therefore not so proud from the base.
I do know someone who sometimes turns out in them, both for greasy surfaces and to cross a stretch of icy concrete before their field. She’s never had any injuries, her horses all get along well.

Thanks I think these would be a better bet than the “proper” studs as I’m literally wanting them for a few days at a time maybe a few times a year and I don’t think I need them super meaty, just a bit of extra help.

 

[Exasperated]

Thanks I think these would be a better bet than the “proper” studs as I’m literally wanting them for a few days at a time maybe a few times a year and I don’t think I need them super meaty, just a bit of extra help.

For what you’d described, should be fine. You can unscrew them with the applicator supplied, and the hole pretty much closes up.
If you wanted to do a lot of riding on icy roads; eg plenty of mileage to keep an endurance horse really fit; then the drill / screw in tungsten tips would definitely last longer - altho I’ve had that type fall out, but never with ice spikes.
If there’s depth of snow, probably better without boots at all, boots might get dragged off when blundering through drifts and then your horse could catch itself with any studs. Spikes / studs are really for icy, frosty surfaces, when snow’s packed down with use and frozen.
Good luck!

 

[Exasperated]

Those look good. I got some studs I was going to put in my scoots a couple of years ago but had no joy as the soles of the boots I had hoped to stud weren't thick enough

No experience of Scoots, but unless your hoof boots are very worn down, ice spikes shouldn’t be any problem - people screw them into running shoes, wellingtons etc, and most hoof boots are much thicker.
You could add a hoof boot ‘comfort pad’ if worried, but I guess it would only be the tiniest tip protruding, less than typical grit off a tarmac road, even with the thinnest of hoof boots.

 

[Miss_Millie]

If they didn't like their 'creature comforts' they wouldn't be stood at the gate asking to come in every evening.

I see people say this a lot, but how much of it is because 1. There is no hay in the field and the grass is too short to fill their bellies during turnout and 2. Because they are conditioned by their routine to know that they are brought in at a certain time.

I'm not saying that horses don't like to get out of really bad weather, but I don't think waiting at the gate is asking to be stabled for X number of hours.

 

[scats]

. If they didn't like their 'creature comforts' they wouldn't be stood at the gate asking to come in every evening.

Horses are creatures of habit and we ‘train’ this behaviour in them without realising. If they know that around the same time every evening they will come in to hay and maybe a feed, they’ll inevitably start waiting at the gate as that time nears, particularly if there is minimal grass.
It’s not the creature comforts they want, it’s the food.