Keeping the leg on, advice

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Ellietotz

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I didn't really know how to title this one. I was just having a think about my boy, as usual, and I had a thought. When riding, if I squeeze, he walks on really well and forward and when I stop squeezing, he slows again. I was wondering, do I just keep squeezing constantly? Or is there a point where I can stop and he continues to walk forward? I just don't want to have to constantly kick because he'll ignore it eventually.

Thanks!
 
No, you should not just keep squeezing. The aids are supposed to be signals that the horse understands and responds too, not physical pushes (you don't "push" the horse sideways in half pass, for instance - the horse carries himself sideways in answer to the touch of your leg or spur). In theory the horse should continue in the movement until asked for something else; in practice you have to remind/rebalance when needed. If the horse ignores your leg you will get nowhere and the situation will only get worse until he responds to only the loudest of aids, if at all. To sharpen up his responses a flick with a schooling whip will back up the question posed with your leg. Don't kick. Ever.
 
Cortez said:
No, you should not just keep squeezing. The aids are supposed to be signals that the horse understands and responds too, not physical pushes (you don't "push" the horse sideways in half pass, for instance - the horse carries himself sideways in answer to the touch of your leg or spur). In theory the horse should continue in the movement until asked for something else; in practice you have to remind/rebalance when needed. If the horse ignores your leg you will get nowhere and the situation will only get worse until he responds to only the loudest of aids, if at all. To sharpen up his responses a flick with a schooling whip will back up the question posed with your leg. Don't kick. Ever.
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So do you recommend that I squeeze until he's moving forwards, stop and if he slows down straight away (which he will), squeeze straight away and give a flick with the whip? I just want to get him walking forwards all the time but like you said, I do not want to keep nagging him. He's great when he's on his toes but will be sluggish if he's allowed.
 
Megmoo said:
So do you recommend that I squeeze until he's moving forwards, stop and if he slows down straight away (which he will), squeeze straight away and give a flick with the whip? I just want to get him walking forwards all the time but like you said, I do not want to keep nagging him. He's great when he's on his toes but will be sluggish if he's allowed.
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Yes. Be very quick, firm if necessary and consistant.
 
i don't know if this helps but my instructor said you should time your squeeze with when the horses body moves away from the leg as this is when his hind leg is moving underneath him- it takes some practice and a good amount of feel- and is easier to do when riding bareback
 
I have a friend who does a lot of Endurance riding.

We went to see a horse together, which was behind the movement to put it kindly. The owner offered the wisdom "you just have to keep your leg on with this horse". Friend's response was "OK so you come on an Endurance ride with me on that horse, and after 20K I'll ask you how you're doing with keeping your leg on".

I really get quite anal with the "pony club kick" philosophy which dictates that you have to "keep your leg on" in order to maintain forward movement, this only produces nappy, unwilling horses who won't go forward and are a real bother to ride, and frankly unpleasant to be on as it all becomes just too much hard work. What I look for in a horse is for established paces in that my expectation is that the horse will carry on in the pace it is in with good forward movement and action, UNTIL the rider ordains a change. Anything else is bad manners IMO.

My cob tends to want to go behind the leg but he knows darn well that if he doesn't shift himself then I'll show him my whip! A sharp crack with a schooling whip to get a horse off the leg and moving forwards is far preferable to continual niggling with the legs. Gaaarrghhh that annoys me!
 
I don't really like Squeeze as a term because I think it sounds like a long aid. When you put you leg on he should response immediately, if not back up with a tickle, then leg off. If he slows down repeat, but the leg aid should not have to be too long. I would only use a longer aid on a really sharp horse.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I have a friend who does a lot of Endurance riding.

We went to see a horse together, which was behind the movement to put it kindly. The owner offered the wisdom "you just have to keep your leg on with this horse". Friend's response was "OK so you come on an Endurance ride with me on that horse, and after 20K I'll ask you how you're doing with keeping your leg on".

I really get quite anal with the "pony club kick" philosophy which dictates that you have to "keep your leg on" in order to maintain forward movement, this only produces nappy, unwilling horses who won't go forward and are a real bother to ride, and frankly unpleasant to be on as it all becomes just too much hard work. What I look for in a horse is for established paces in that my expectation is that the horse will carry on in the pace it is in with good forward movement and action, UNTIL the rider ordains a change. Anything else is bad manners IMO.

My cob tends to want to go behind the leg but he knows darn well that if he doesn't shift himself then I'll show him my whip! A sharp crack with a schooling whip to get a horse off the leg and moving forwards is far preferable to continual niggling with the legs. Gaaarrghhh that annoys me!
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Note: the best piece of advice I was ever given to get a sluggish horse off the leg is to take them hunting for a day! That usually does the trick :)
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I have a friend who does a lot of Endurance riding.

We went to see a horse together, which was behind the movement to put it kindly. The owner offered the wisdom "you just have to keep your leg on with this horse". Friend's response was "OK so you come on an Endurance ride with me on that horse, and after 20K I'll ask you how you're doing with keeping your leg on".

I really get quite anal with the "pony club kick" philosophy which dictates that you have to "keep your leg on" in order to maintain forward movement, this only produces nappy, unwilling horses who won't go forward and are a real bother to ride, and frankly unpleasant to be on as it all becomes just too much hard work. What I look for in a horse is for established paces in that my expectation is that the horse will carry on in the pace it is in with good forward movement and action, UNTIL the rider ordains a change. Anything else is bad manners IMO.

My cob tends to want to go behind the leg but he knows darn well that if he doesn't shift himself then I'll show him my whip! A sharp crack with a schooling whip to get a horse off the leg and moving forwards is far preferable to continual niggling with the legs. Gaaarrghhh that annoys me!
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I wouldn't even want to do 10 minutes of constant leg let alone 20k! More work than fun!
Yeah, mine will slow down the moment I stop squeezing so I catch him slowing down with another squeeze but I don't want to have to keep on doing that, I want him to walk on all the time without being reminded!
 
muddy_grey said:
I don't really like Squeeze as a term because I think it sounds like a long aid. When you put you leg on he should response immediately, if not back up with a tickle, then leg off. If he slows down repeat, but the leg aid should not have to be too long.
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^^ yes, agree. I want to touch with my leg and then take it off.
Actually what I do with mine, is take the leg off the horse, and then put it on for an aid, then let it hang again.
In time, the horse learns to react to you taking your leg off. So when I want to ride a walk to trot transition, say, I take my leg off slightly and horse trots forward.

But to get to that point, I'd do as Cortez says - if you are absolutely clear about not nagging and just reminding him when he drops behind your leg again you can correct this kind of thing very quickly. but you must make sure you don't get back into the habit of pushing and shoving him along - it's a rider fault as much as a horse/training one.
 
shadeofshyness said:
Mine is the same as this. The only thing is, he's also not really bothered about the schooling whip! It's something we work on every single lesson.
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This is exactly mine. Slows down as soon as the leg is off. I do use the schooling whip to back my leg up so i'm trying not to nag but he's not so bothered about that. He does respond but then again not for very long.

We work on it every session too and sometimes we have progress, sometimes not. My instructor has told me to use my leg to ask for the initial move off, but then don't use leg to keep him in pace, so use my whip behind my leg to keep the walk pace active. Start off with small taps quite light with the whip and if he doesn't respond get a bit harder until he does move forward. Once he moves forward he gets big praise. Then, as i'm using my stick, when I do ask with my legs he moves off much quicker and nicer into the trot. Then again, when in the trot, don't keep asking with the legs, ask with the stick if he slows down.

Theory is, that he will not want to get hit harder and harder with the whip and will start responding quicker, then eventually he won't need this as he'll learn if he keeps pace he gets left alone. And then as he's not used to the legs he should respond to leg better to.

I am trying this method, but sometimes have my reservations as I am using my whip alot and not sure if it's really fair on him. He has some sessions where he's really forward and i've tried not doing so much schooling with him recently and doing more hacking so that he isn't getting bored in there. When I do school I try and do 'fun' things like little jumps, poles, bending poles, not just going round in circles.
 
There is a technique to using a whip, as there is to everything. Far better to give one sharp sting than to nag away with the whip just tapping or tickling. Every horse reacts differently, some will be mortified at the merest touch, some will need a great big whackeroo at first to really respect the aid. Understanding the whip is part of training, and a horse which is frightened of it is very hard to train.
 
Cortez said:
There is a technique to using a whip, as there is to everything. Far better to give one sharp sting than to nag away with the whip just tapping or tickling. Every horse reacts differently, some will be mortified at the merest touch, some will need a great big whackeroo at first to really respect the aid. Understanding the whip is part of training, and a horse which is frightened of it is very hard to train.
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See this is what I thought at first. I would rather give him a couple of sharp reminders and get him going then tap away with the stick and get harder and harder. He's not frightened at all, tbh he probably ignores it too! But when I did a sharp hit first with my instructor I was told off and told to start with light taps to give him chance to respond and then if he doesn't to get harder until he does respond.

So i am slightly confused with the best way to go.
 
Nagging. Easy habit to get into with some horses. Important to remember that nagging inadvertently teaches the horse to move only when leg is on. Need to retrain both rider and horse. Rider must be very strict and have full control over the leg. I teach horses and riders this: nudge, kick, stick. The nudge is the small aid you want them to respond to. At beginning of retraining this will have minimal effect. Horse gets a second to respond to nudge then escalate to a sharp kick (not pony club) and similarly has a second to respond. If nothing then larges sharper kick combined with sharp stick aid. As soon as horse moves off immediately stop using the leg. When horse slows (as horse thinks he is doing the right thing - he thinks only move when leg on) repeat the nudge, kick, stick and immediately leg off when response. Only escalate if no response. But don't give horse ages to make up his mind to move. Has to be instant. Work on the by doing transitions between halt and walk and walk and trot. Rider must be consistent. Horse will learn pretty quickly but may take up to two weeks. Mostly rider error in not realising leg is still on makes it take more time.

Horse should keep going until you say otherwise. The reason it looks like people use lotsf leg is because they are constantly telling horse something different or helping with balance.

Repeat with patience and consistency and you'll be fine. Some horses get riders to nag more than others. :) I reschool quite a few kids ponies that have the "lazy horse" syndrome when really they just learn to ignore the constant leg and switch off, using the constant leg means keep going and anything else means stop!
 
milliepops said:
^^ yes, agree. I want to touch with my leg and then take it off.
Actually what I do with mine, is take the leg off the horse, and then put it on for an aid, then let it hang again.
In time, the horse learns to react to you taking your leg off. So when I want to ride a walk to trot transition, say, I take my leg off slightly and horse trots forward.

But to get to that point, I'd do as Cortez says - if you are absolutely clear about not nagging and just reminding him when he drops behind your leg again you can correct this kind of thing very quickly. but you must make sure you don't get back into the habit of pushing and shoving him along - it's a rider fault as much as a horse/training one.
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I was taught that as well, it does work but takes a bit of getting used to!
 
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