Kicking horse (not mine) - what would you do?

fishy

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Hi I'm after some advice. A horse has recently moved onto our yard which has been known and seen to kick. It tries to kick at its owner when its being groomed and it kicks out at other horses if its tied up outside. It has also kicked a couple of horses and in its attempts to get one kicked a girl. Yesterday it was turned out in the field with my pony and two others. I believe it has been in the field with the other two, but not mine. The other two were brought in and my daughter went to get ours believing the other horses owner to be behind her. The two were at the bottom of the field and as she brought ours up the other cantered up behind, she let the pony go and went to the gate to catch him. As she got to the gate the other horse turned on ours and double barrelled him 3 times. She managed to get him out of the field as the others owner arrived to collect it. He was not badly hurt but my daughter was quite shaken. I mentioned what had happened to the horses owner and she was quite abrupt and said no she had seen what had happened and it was all about pecking order. I said I wasn't sure about that and I was concerned that my daughter might have been injured. She clearly was not!! What would you have done? Sorry this is a long post, thank you for reading x
 

mcnaughty

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I'm not sure that there is anything you can do other than make sure you and your daughter wear hard hats when going to the field.

Speak to YO and say that it is dangerous. Say that it could be a health and safety issue and now that she is aware she had a duty of care to protect you all. That is a bit heavy handed though and could sound a bit OTT.
 

Cazza525

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Hi I'm after some advice. A horse has recently moved onto our yard which has been known and seen to kick. It tries to kick at its owner when its being groomed and it kicks out at other horses if its tied up outside. It has also kicked a couple of horses and in its attempts to get one kicked a girl. Yesterday it was turned out in the field with my pony and two others. I believe it has been in the field with the other two, but not mine. The other two were brought in and my daughter went to get ours believing the other horses owner to be behind her. The two were at the bottom of the field and as she brought ours up the other cantered up behind, she let the pony go and went to the gate to catch him. As she got to the gate the other horse turned on ours and double barrelled him 3 times. She managed to get him out of the field as the others owner arrived to collect it. He was not badly hurt but my daughter was quite shaken. I mentioned what had happened to the horses owner and she was quite abrupt and said no she had seen what had happened and it was all about pecking order. I said I wasn't sure about that and I was concerned that my daughter might have been injured. She clearly was not!! What would you have done? Sorry this is a long post, thank you for reading x
This is awful and must be such a worry for you. I am really sorry to tell you though, that this is the risk you take when being on a busy yard. Unfortunately, some horses ARE more kicky than others and should obviously be careful when tied up that nothing is led behind. Perhaos your daughter could have someone with her when bringing in and turning out, or perhaps you could have a word with the YO and make sure that this kicky horse is not put out with yours?
 

Moody-Mare

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Hi there! Had the exct same issue with a horse at my yard a few months back! Where the mare attacked my mare, then attacked me when i was trying to catch my mare! The owners weren't there to see the accident but I informed the yard owner but she wasnt bothered. Im all for horses being horses, but when it comes to being scared to go catch your horse!
Be interesting to see other peoples views on this!
I ended up putting maisy in a paddock for a week- she was slightly lame after the scrap, cuts and bruises etc! but nothing too bad. Things seem t o have calmed down now, but thats the mares coming into season so need to watch this space!
 

Amymay

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You need to speak to the YO about your concerns.

That way they can monitor the situation, and if it turns out that this horse does have an inclination to throw his hind legs around, the YO can deal with it (hopefully in the form of asking the owner to leave).
 

be positive

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This is something the YO must address, they need to know, if they do not already, that this horse is kicking.
Is it being moved round to different fields because it kicks and if so it will cause a serious accident as it is obviously not settled in and being introduced properly, it should not just be turned out into a new field with no introductions or precautions taken. It certainly should not be out with a childs pony when it is known the child has to go and get the pony in.:mad:

This needs a strong complaint to be made and to be dealt with by YO ASAP.
 

smokey

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Agree with this advice, if this continues someone could be badly hurt, and the implications of that would affect both the other owner and the YO if he is made aware and does nothing. If the horse is a known kicker I 'm not sure why it was put with others anyway.
 

Kallibear

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By the sound of the owners reply, you won't get anywhere through her.

I'd go to the YM and speak to her, asking for help. Having the horse moved away from yours would be the best solution, and ensuring the horse is never tied up outside his stable.

I do feel a bit sorry for the owner and not suprised she's defensive: there's prob not much she can do about his kicking and she'll want him to have a normal horse life. My friend has a horse similar and I felt bad when I told her she could come and livery with me because of it (we have small kids go into the field at times)
 

Miss L Toe

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By the sound of the owners reply, you won't get anywhere through her.

I'd go to the YM and speak to her, asking for help. Having the horse moved away from yours would be the best solution, and ensuring the horse is never tied up outside his stable.

I do feel a bit sorry for the owner and not suprised she's defensive: there's prob not much she can do about his kicking and she'll want him to have a normal horse life. My friend has a horse similar and I felt bad when I told her she could come and livery with me because of it (we have small kids go into the field at times)
The horse could have its hind shoes removed for a start. Also owner should have been aware a child is not an adult and take more care of her horse.
 

flying solo

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I'd also have a word with yo a kicker in a field where children's ponies are is a huge no-no. The woman clearly knows its a kicker so should have declared this when she first spoke to the yo about livery? Hope it gets sorted soon and your daughter stays safe
 

Mongoose11

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In the mean time I would be taking a lunging whip or a spare leadrope to flick in his direction while I was bringing mine in....
 

ILuvCowparsely

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I feel for you.

I would have words with yard owner and ask if this horse can either be turned out on its own or if your horse can be turned out separately to this one.
The owner needs to see this as important and not to diss this. This can and has been the case where horses legs have been broken due to a kicker.

If she does not do anything I would leave the yard find somewhere else.


We had a kicker here she never told me when she viewed I found out later, needless to say she is a x livery now.

Some horses can have a vendetta against others. The owner of this horse should have notified the YO when viewing the yard. Does she really want the death of a horse on her conscious?????
 
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wildcard

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I had a very similiar problem last year where one of the horses in the field with mine was very riggy and dominant even over people entering the field and he too would try and double barrell if given half the chance, it ended up with him kicking mine and putting her out of action for a couple of months..

the owner wouldnt have any of it and told me a was a liar even though the kicking had been witnessed by other people on the yard.. I am big believer that his behavour in the field is a totaly reflection of the fact he's boss out of the field totally takes the p*** out of his owner drags barges you name it.. told the YO that id want mine moved if this didnt stop and i made a point of going down to get mine with a crop and every time it came near threatened to give it a good whollop (never actually did) and showed my dominance over it.. since my horse has manned up a bit and will kick back but when getting in and out of field hers stays well back when i get mine in know.

maybe not what some people might suggest to do but worked for us.. horse was just a bolshy git with no manners whatsoever and no respect for own space..

Hope you get sorted though nothing worse that it been your horse always getting kicked
 

Enfys

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In defence of the horse owner here, unless she has specifically warned the YO that the horse is a kicker, or asked the YO for individual/compatible turnout then she is not responsible for what her horse does when it is being a horse in the field, even if it is a bloody minded one.

As a YO ( who is responsible for safety of paying clients, horse and human) I would have it separated/moved it pronto, either temporarily or permanently as soon as I knew there was a problem, it isn't good for the handlers, the horses, or for business. Nothing worse than struggling to get a wary horse in or out when it is worried about being bitten or belted by another one, it is an accident just waiting to happen. I have it in my contracts that I can, and will (and have done so) move horses about entirely at my discretion if they are unhappy in a particular group or causing trouble.

OP, I am sorry to hear that your daughter got stuck in the middle of this, it is pretty frightening. Other than the usual precautions already mentioned there isn't a lot you can do about it if the YO isn't willing/able to juggle paddocks.

Do your gates have penned off areas so that you can get your horse in and out of paddocks without being crowded by other horses?
 
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ILuvCowparsely

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In defence of the horse owner here, unless she has specifically warned the YO that the horse is a kicker, or asked the YO for individual/compatible turnout then she is not responsible for what her horse does when it is being a horse in the field, even if it is a bloody minded one.
Right so if a potential livery who knows their horse is a kicker does not tell the yard owner on viewing the yard or keeps quiet about the horse being troublesome, or has not asked for individual turn out just so she can be accepted. Then its not her responsibility??? :confused: Then afterwards the liveries find out its a kicker and has a reputation as being a kicker. The horse is turned out with others and a horse gets kicked, it appears to be minor the horse is box rested overnight (hair line fracture was not obvious), the following morning the owner gets a call to say her horse has a broken leg (it had got down in the night and getting up leg fractures) leg hanging down . Right but of course its not the owners fault who owns the kicker!! :mad: cause it damn well is.

Liveries do lie about their horses on viewing yards to be accepted.

About the vices , height etc.:rolleyes:

Liveries are told in some yards that owner does not offer individual turnout. So if a kicker emerges its a polite sorry you will have to go. We don't all have enough turnout paddocks to shuffle around. If you do fair enough, most of use don't
 
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Goldenstar

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The YO must deal with this I would not approach the owner again speak to the YO at once and don't let your daughter in the field until its sorted.
 

Enfys

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Right so if a potential livery who knows their horse is a kicker does not tell the yard owner on viewing the yard, or has asked for individual turn out just so she can be accepted. Then she is not responsibility??? :confused: If she knew, then yes, she is responsible for the actions of the horse, but horses do react differently to different situations don't you find? A previously peaceful animal can change in a new environment it isn't unheard of

Liveries do lie about their horses on viewing yards. I never believe anything that anyone says about their little darlings anyway, I make my own mind up about them and do what I feel is right for all concerned.



You have obviously been on the wrong end of a kicker, and I am truly sorry about that, so have I.
It damn well sucks, but no need to rant at me, I was merely expressing my opinion on a public forum, and I believe that I am allowed to do that, no-one has to take any note of what I think.

Oh, and I do not have an endless supply of individual paddocks, If I need them I make them.
 
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Littlelegs

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I'd speak to yo too. If it kicks, its up to the owner to take measures to prevent it hurting anyone/anything when tied up or on the yard. Regarding the field, the yo should be prepared to make sure it doesn't get chance to harm other horses, so maybe it needs to be in with something more dominate. But if its safe for an adult to go in the field with I don't think either the yo or horses owner is obliged to make arrangements for a child to go in the field safely. Imo its more the parents should be obliged to accompany the child. However by safe around adults, I don't mean adults brandishing whips to make it behave.
 

topclass

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As a YO the first sign of kicking where a child is concerned the owners would be informed and another field would have been allocated I wouldnt wait for an accident to happen its to late then and a child/person could get injured or worse and so could the other horses if the rest of the bunch are happy then a new herd needs to be established this is what I would do if it was on my yard
 

Welshie Squisher

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I personally wouldn't be allowing my child into a field with as new horse without my supervision.
In the field I am in there are 5, all good sorts, but when they all went in together there was all sorts going on, kicking, chasing, teeth barring etc, took about 4 weeks for it to reduce to face pulling and eventual acceptance.
Of course horses dont think ahh human lets stop!

Go in yourself until this is resolved, speak to the YO about your concerns.

How long gas this horse been in the field? I ask as I've seen way worse from the nicest of horses when in a new herd, in fact a new horse can cause mayhem to a whole herd.

As for kicking in the yard, well the owner needs to teach her horse some manners and if she can't then she should have her horse in a quiet low traffic area, not somewhere that people have to pass all the time. Again YO should deal with this.
 

Mongoose11

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Not good advice for a child, or anyone else.

Are we seriously saying that waggling a lead rope to say - 'move out of my space' is unacceptable? Have you assumed I would be brandishing either implement threateningly and attempting to hit the horse with it?

I said if it were me..... I am an adult....
 

Mongoose11

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[/QUOTE]However by safe around adults, I don't mean adults brandishing whips to make it behave.[/QUOTE]

If this is aimed at my response - I didn't suggest brandishing anything, hitting anything or doing anything that would make contact with the horse. Using a tool as an extension of a limb is an appropriate way to ask a horse to stay out of your space? Or am i missing something here?
 

PandorasJar

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As a YO the first sign of kicking where a child is concerned the owners would be informed and another field would have been allocated I wouldnt wait for an accident to happen its to late then and a child/person could get injured or worse and so could the other horses if the rest of the bunch are happy then a new herd needs to be established this is what I would do if it was on my yard
+1 if this seemed to be a problem (which it sounds like) as opposed to initial pecking order in which case I'd put them in parallel fields to get used to the change first.

I also would be questioning the child collecting pony without supervision if under 14 (though this doesn't obviously make the kicker alright).

Pan
 

jofwigby

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Unfortunately my horse was the casualty when in the field with my friends mare, who we knew was a kicker. We have always turned out all our horses together believing that once the natural pecking order was established it would be fine.

It wasn't and I lost my lovely old boy with a broken leg. The mare had lived in the next box for nearly a year and they had been turned out with others for that time too with no incident apart from the initial rough-housing when she arrived.

She is now only separated by electric fence from the others and it works very well. She can say hello when she wants but cant cause them any damage.

Sorry but I would not risk a child getting hurt and would insist that the kicker be separated.

Hopefully it can be done tactfully and easily (like with electric fence) but no one wants to receive the call I had from my best friend to say that my horse had sustained a fatal injury from a kick from her horse.
 

Littlelegs

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No, not aimed at you billy at all. I meant in the sense some horses are fine with an adult they respect but not to be trusted with kids. I meant that if the only safe way for a child to catch its pony is to have an adult chasing the kicker away with a whip, then it is not appropriate for it to be kept with a child's pony. But if the kicker will respond to a simple vocal command to back off from an adult, its up to the child's parents to accompany them.
On the subject of moving with whips or waving leadropes, if the horse is particularly dominant or rude, loose in a field isn't the safest way to gain respect. Both my mares have excellent manners & neither kick etc, but will race to the gate at feed times. Waving a leadrope at one would result in her planting herself & blanking you. The smaller would fly at you with her teeth & has charged someone who tried to move her with a whip. However both immediately respond to 'go back' from the smallest child or most nervous adult.
 

Equilibrium Ireland

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I really do despair when owners of horses like this either ignore the issue or try and play it down. I get that it might be hard to find livery if you own one of these, but surely for everyone's safety you could try and be honest with yourself. If this SOB belonged to me I wouldn't be long about finding some company that sort his pecking order behaviour out!

I have a mare that I think I exaggerate her ability to kick but it's because I won't see anyone hurt. How and ever, mine are a different story out as they stand at the gate in an orderly cue with no fuss and she gets put firmly in place by mom and older sister. And if I feel they aren't paying attention I need only to go and get the dressage whip. They only need to see it and the tomfoolery stops! I will say that since I customised all my mare's rugs which are void of fillet and leg straps, her kicking has ceased. But every now and again some stupid person defies logic. As in walking a gelding past my mare in a narrow aisle just as I'm trying to put her away. Stupid gelding bites my mare on the butt and let's fly. I get a barrage of abuse, of course I do, about dangerous mare. Really? Funny how she goes to shows and never ever kicks in crowded warm ups. But biting on butt, I can't really control that. Still, like I said, I say to people, just don't go near her. Mine are all together so I needn't worry about people going in with my lot.

My safety is paramount which is why mine have to be respectful. I also feel strongly about the safety of other humans and horses. I would be mortified if this was my horse and I pretended it wasn't a problem. Talk to YO and she really needs to be aware of how dangerous things can be.

Terri
 
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