Killer serving life 'wants baby'

magic104

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OMG what great parents they would make!!

A murderer serving life in prison is again appealing to be allowed to father a child by artificial insemination.
Lawyers for Kirk Dickson, 34, and his wife Lorraine, 48, will put their case before judges at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
They married in jail in 2001. Mrs Dickson now lives in Beverley, East Yorkshire, but her husband will not be released before 2009.
They lost their first appeal at the European court last April.
Their new appeal will be heard by 17 judges sitting in the court's Grand Chamber.
'Exceptional' cases
The couple met through a prison pen pal scheme in 1999 while Mrs Dickson was also in jail.
Glad my taxes are being well spent!!

I know I dont know why he took the rights of someone to live, or why his wife was also in prison, but good god I would not want them as parents.
 

spaniel

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I thought I had misheard this on the radio this morning.....I cannot believe the state the world has got to where a case like this would even be contemplated.
 

severnmiles

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Hang on a min, we don't even know why he was in prison for murder(in other words the circumstances of the murder), none of us know the full facts and perhaps he has turned his life around. Some people make mistakes, don't they deserve a second chance?
 

Weezy

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So you think its OK for this case to go to court??

And yes I know life is usually 14 years, but still!

And why cant he wait until he gets out to impregnate his wife? Oh yes, because she will prob shortly become menopausal due to her age

Sorry but this is one stinking waste of time, money and effort AND it sets a precident I would rather not see set
 

moodymare1987

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Whilst i agree on giving people a second chance, i dont want to give a murderer a second chance. fair enough we dont know the circumstances, but would you want to let them out for the chance to kill again, personally i would not even risk more lives for one person who claims to have changed.
 

severnmiles

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We don't even know if he was truly guilty. None of us know the facts.

There are some appalling parents out there, we don't know this woman, she might be one of the best mums out there.
 

moodymare1987

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I know that we dont know the facts, but im not getting at that, say he was guilty for murdering someone would you let them out so they could have a child or whatever as they have changed, Yes this mother could be a brilliant mother, but its not about her its about him.
 

the watcher

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[ QUOTE ]
I know that we dont know the facts, but im not getting at that, say he was guilty for murdering someone would you let them out so they could have a child or whatever as they have changed, Yes this mother could be a brilliant mother, but its not about her its about him.

[/ QUOTE ]

More about her really..wants a baby, knows she is unlikely to conceive when he is released so they want AI now....who exactly is going to be paying for this, the NHS? Or are they planning something interesting in the visitors centre with a turkey baster?

If she is desperate enough for a baby, I imagine she will find some way to get herself pregnant in any case, so whether it is his sperm or somebody else's is immaterial. What sort of parents will they make? If that was a relevant question half the population could well be sterilised!

In retrospect it would have been easier for the prison to just facilitate this with a conjugal visit..no press, no story.
 

Sooty

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My problem with this is that as far as I am concerned, when you are sent to prison you lose your 'human rights'. We live in a throwaway society, where a convicted murderer can become a leading man in a major soap. Babies are seen as lifestyle accessories, and everyone has a right to one regardless of their ability to bring it up. There is now talk of giving convicted criminals the right to vote whilst in prison, as it violates their human rights to stop them. I despair...
 

severnmiles

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"when you are sent to prison you lose your 'human rights'."

Obviously not, not wanting it to rear its ugly head again but those heroin addicts weren't made to go cold turkey and were even paid compensation so why should he be denied a child?

Do you think that poor girl who was murdered in the prostitute case would have made a good mother, addicted to heroin, on the game e.t.c yet nobody said she isn't allowed to get pregnant!
 

Sooty

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I think there is a distinction between a medical condition and wanting to vote or have a baby. I don't think the murdered prostitutes were recorded as saying they wanted to become mothers.
 

severnmiles

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[ QUOTE ]
I think there is a distinction between a medical condition and wanting to vote or have a baby. I don't think the murdered prostitutes were recorded as saying they wanted to become mothers.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but she was 3months pregnant, if she wanted an abortion she could have had it by about 8-10weeks.

No, no distinction. Allow some prisoners human rights then you must allow them all human rights, if you don't agree with that then none of them should be allowed to have human rights.
 

Sooty

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There is a huge difference between treating a medical condition and allowing a prisoner to vote. One is a basic right to life, the other is a benefit. I had no idea the prostitute was pregnant, maybe she hadn't either!
 

severnmiles

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A self inflicted medical condition, its not like they had a true illness and were being denied treatment, and then fair enough get the methadone but why on earth was there a payout. The urge in some people to have a baby is so, so strong that it could do as much mental damage as being made to go cold turkey.
 

Sooty

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I suppose the difference is that the drug addicts were already addicts before they were convicted, although heroin is frighteningly easy to obtain in British prisons. Allegedly. The woman is not already pregnant. If she was, nobody would suggest an abortion, but she knew when she married the man that he was in jail and should have thought it through.
 

GinaB

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And often so early into the preganancy (8-10weeks as mentioned) many kits don't give a postive result apparently.

The way I look on it is this man is in prison for a reason. He should be treated as if he is in prison, not be namby pambyed. This people get better care than elderly in nursing homes, children who are in care homes etc. I think it's a disgrace. Look at Ian Huntly...sitting in there protected from other prisoners with a playstation tv etc to keep him entertained. Disgusting after what he done
 

annaellie

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[ QUOTE ]
Hang on a min, we don't even know why he was in prison for murder(in other words the circumstances of the murder), none of us know the full facts and perhaps he has turned his life around. Some people make mistakes, don't they deserve a second chance?

[/ QUOTE ] Maybe so there might be a valid reson why he murded someone self defence for instance but you say doesnt everyone deserve a 2nd chance, the person he murded will never get a 2nd chance so why should he
 

magic104

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I may not know why he is in prison for murder, but he is. The wife already has 3 children so it is not as if she is being deprived of being a mother. If being a mother was so important to her why has she committed an act that put her in prison? I think I am quiet tolerant & I try not to be too judgemental, but I do not believe it is a god given right to have a baby just because you hit your late 40's, 50's. If our health service was not such a mess & there was money to throw around, then fine. There are people who have worked all their lives, who have paid into this society & do not get these privilages. What about my right to decent transport so I can get to work on time? Everytime my car has to go into the garage I have to take time off work, or arrange taxies/lifts because it is impossible to get to & from work by bus. What about the rights of the person who is having severe headaches only getting the scan they required because they crashed their car when the blacked out? I can think of far better ways to spend my taxes then on a murderer & a woman who already has 3 children.
 

flying_change

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TBH, this is such a tough one.

We dont seem to have ever written 'the list of rights' that prisoners have and the list of the ones they dont have; maybe it's time to do that. (Though I can see it would be a long debate, maybe longer than the Hunting bill took). Or maybe we've made the list, and cases like these serve to highlight the things that have been omitted.

It's also tough to decide how deal with people while in prison. They are sent there as a punishment, no question about that. It's possible that after release, they will offend again. On the other hand, if we're being responsible, we ought to hope that the time in prison teaches them the error of their ways, and that they can and do reform. So do you treat prisoners assuming that they might reform, or that they wont.
Should the reformed prisoners be given more rights than non-reformed prisoners? Maybe not... but then again, maybe we ought to reward those who do reform.

Difficult, isnt it ?
 

Nic

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Apart from anything else surely it wuold me more sensible to wait 2 years until he was out so his baby actually knows who he is in the first year & a bit of it's life?

Though she is obviously going to be an older Mother.
 

magic104

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I 4got to add that I thought they should wait to see if their relationship was stable enough for a child. After all how can you have a proper relationship if one of you is in prison? It would help after all as relationships take a lot of working at. Also I might add that prisoners get better health care & education then most citizens (& that is confirmed by more the one prision worker).
 

Lvrees

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Sorry I dont think they should be allowed, while he is in prison he should not be allowed to father a child!

So what if Ian Huntley decided he'd like to father his own child with a woman he met through a penpal scheme who was also in prison???

Would he be allowed?? Should he be allowed??

I know we dont know the reason why this particular man was in prison, but its for murder, if it was theft... fair enough... or insurance fraud, but this is murder.
 

spaniel

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The whole thing is a joke. You go to prison becuase you are guilty in the eyes of the law. Your rights are removed from you, thats the whole point.

Im am heartily bl**dy sick of people bleating on about 'human rights'. Why not scrap all law and let the world run riot and have done with it.
 

jacks_mum

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i thought the reason behind being put in prison was to be denied those things that constitute a 'normal' life by way of punishment. It seems to me that prison is often the easier option nowadays there is no real punishment involved and prison is no longer a place thatpeople wouldn't want to go to again. some people seem to treat it as a holiday camp and it holds no punishment.

murder -regardless of the intricasies of each case - should e punished so this an should not be allowed to father a child whilst he is under punishment or what is the point f him being in prison? IMO
 

annaellie

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I think you took what I said wrong I was quoteing severnmiles who said we dont know the reason and doesnt everyone deserve a 2nd chance my answer was yes we dont know why he murdered someone but basically if you say he deserves a 2nd chance, the person he murded wont get a second chance so why shold he have the chance for a second start on his life, maybe I worded the 1st post wrong, I believe this is wrong and life should mean life.
 

jacks_mum

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Flying -change - i don't believe this is a tough one. prison is prison. it is a punishment. the only rights prisoners should have is for a dry bed and atleast one meal a day (and that is more than some people get in the outside world!). they should have no other rights or it is not a punishment. IMO
 
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