Kings Troop horse dies during gun salute

akn102 said:
As for the horses being 'well cared for' - from who's perspective. I'm sure they are well groomed, in highly manicured stables etc etc. From the horses perspective I'm not entirely sure this is actually very important; what about his mental and emotional needs ie being out in a field with his mates for a least a portion of his day? It saddened me recently watching a some programme about the household cavalry when a soldier commented some of the horses are 'grumpy'. If you look at their withers it is totally apparent their tack doesn't fit comfortably; they stand tied up in stalls with little opportunity to actual just be horses - wouldn't that make you grumpy!
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I own an ex kings troop horse who we have had for 5 years now.A couple of years ago he got photosensitivity with a secondary infection and spent 6 entire weeks in a darkened stable and he was happy as larry! To this day he loves being in his box and will go and stand in it on his own accord with the door wide open.He prefers his own company and is a miserable git all through the winter as he wants to be left in his box. He left the troop 6 years ago but would still rather be in then out.

RIP Murphy
 
Saucisson said:
Personally, I really enjoy the displays, I also think it's important to keep this link to our past and to be reminded of the life-death bond between a soldier in combat and the working horses they depend upon.
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I agree. I have seen the King's Troop many times, and it is always the highlight of any show for me if they are appearing. It makes me so proud and emotional I'm virtually in tears *shame*
Accidents do happen, and I remember how shocked I was when Capriole was killed a few years ago. I never really associated a "musical ride" with danger, but when you actually look at it, it's a really high risk act.
To go back to the pictures..It's not so much that I object the the pictures per se. I do agree that the efforts and desperation of the soldiers trying to help Murphy made it very poignant, especially the chap with his head in his hands. Very moving.
My issue is with that particular newspaper's constant sensationalising of tragedies, with masses of harrowing pics.
Yes, it is news. Post a couple of pics if you must. BUT. There is a fine line between reporting the facts and pushing the boundaries of taste, and they cross it too regularly for my liking. Same as their reporting of the GN.
 
akn102 said:
These horses have no choice about the job they do and I think it's time we all started considering things from the perspective of the horse; they are not our possessions or here on this planet for our convenience.
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No horse has a choice, doesn't matter if it's a hack, eventer, hunter!

It's a real pity this happened but it was an accident, there will be far more domestic horses that have been fatally injured whilst out on a hack.
 
Well said springer, but horses do have a say ask anyone with a horse that naps, we feed water clean after lots of animals and ask for a fe hours of work in exchange, in wild there would be risks especially if fleeing being hunted, life is full of risks. Very sorry for what has happened but wrap animals in cottonwood and some would still die
 
photoman125 said:
Maybe before you make stupid comments about these soldiers you should actually try meeting them. They live with their horses 24/7 and are often found spending their off duty time with them as well. Many of the horses when they retire from army life are actually bought by soldiers. They are exercised daily and are very well treated.
Every horse is loved ,caared for and all their equipment made for them and it would be an offence for any soldier to not have their tack fitted correctly.
Do not compare Kings Troop to the life Guards, they are 2 seperate items. I know most of the troop, my son is one of them and i can tell you that every member of the troop were upset, the horse had been ridden by my son and he is in tears at the news. He wasn't at the event as he is currently serving in Afghanistan, so please try to remember under the uniform there is a human being just as capable as getting upset as anyone else. RIP Murphy
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TOTALLY agree !!

By the same token, I wouldn't denegrate the Household either. The British Army, is and has, always been the zenith of care for horses amongst all other cavalry arms worldwide. The very idea that Murphy was ill treated is a disgraceful comment.
 
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I wouldn't deride any service personel involved with any animals, they all love them and go beyond their duty with them. I know when my sons horse retires he is planning on buying him and letting him live his life out in happy retirement
 
Just brings home to you how hard the war was when they really went into battle - poor horse, poor troup - but god bless each and everyone of them - tragic accident - much upset for all involved - but at least it wasnt at the hands of some appaling bomb like when the horses got bombed for no reason in hyde park.
 
It's a tragic accident. They happen in all walks of life, and are all upsetting. I don't think anyone was negligent, horses slip and fall in all sorts of conditions. I don't mind most of those photos, they show how distraught everyone was, and how quickly they all tried to help the poor horse. I'm glad that everything seemed to be dealt with so quickly, i'm sure he suffered for a much shorter time than most horses who break their legs in accidents. On the road, in the field, jumping.

Thoughts are with those who worked with him...
 
I have very mixed feelings about this. Some of my family were in the KT back when they did used to pull these guns into battle. I'm not yet a good enough rider to consider myself worthy of the kit, but I have it as a goal...

I used to watch the displays with a mixture of pride and awe.

After a horse was killed at the RWHS one year I thought again.

Watching a 'stunt show' (which is essentially what we are doing watching the displays, we don't watch film of active service in the same way at all) can be great fun. But part of the fun is the danger, the breath-taking close-shaves. And no horse should die for that.

Horses are injured and killed in many low-risk situations. But to put them into a high(er)-risk situation for public entertainment makes me very uncomfortable.

As to how they are kept... I'm not as familiar with the KT at present but certainly the Household Cavalry set up wouldn't suit many (most) horses. It and they are kept immaculately, but, like other central London horses, are in very small stalls or boxes/otherwise stationary much of the time and never (except during annual holidays) get turn out. There are some animals who cope very well but it is very far from ideal however much the staff (both military and civilian) do, genuinely, care.

Sympathies to the carers, and most importantly, the horse.
 
Saucisson said:
One of them definitely seemed to enjoy chucking me on the floor :D I thought they'd be a bit ploddy after pulling guns around - how wrong I was :o

Personally, I really enjoy the displays, I also think it's important to keep this link to our past and to be reminded of the life-death bond between a soldier in combat and the working horses they depend upon.

Would I be correct in saying that horses were used in the Falklands War to transport supplies? I'd be worried if we lost all of that knowledge and training.
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That happened to me when i spent time with them, Wonder if it was the same horse. However I can’t remember for the lift of me what its name was.
 
Horsemanship is still very much relevant in modern warfare.

US Troops have used native horses successfully in battle in Afghanistan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horse-Soldiers-Extraordinary-Special-Afghanistan/dp/1847398235/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1307447139&sr=8-8

Also, horses are an important part of Afghan culture. A donkey is probably the most valuable thing a family owns and is often key to ensuring a steady income.
In this 'heart and minds' mission another role of forces on the ground is to attend to the domesticated animals of the locals and offer advice/treatment.
In May this year a british army vet started a 6 months tour of Afghan to run a vet clinic in Helmand Province
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/ArmyVetRunsClinicsForAfghanFarmers.htm

Also, the Kings Troop maybe mostly ceremonial but all serving personnel they are still eligible to deploy to Afghanistan and six or seven members of the Troop are away at any one time.
Also, they have an operational role as part of the territorial defence of the United Kingdom - and when the firefighters go on strike they are driving the 'Green Goddesses' and when we have flooding they are filling sandbags round our power stations.

They are not just pretty horses in Hyde Park for our amusement - they are a key link in keeping the general population in touch with our armed forces and they also have an important role to play away from the stables.

Long may this special tradition continue :D:D:D:D
 
akn102 said:
Perhaps someone should have considered how dry and hard the ground is the likelihood of a horse slipping like this is clearly increased.

As for the horses being 'well cared for' - from who's perspective. I'm sure they are well groomed, in highly manicured stables etc etc. From the horses perspective I'm not entirely sure this is actually very important; what about his mental and emotional needs ie being out in a field with his mates for a least a portion of his day? It saddened me recently watching a some programme about the household cavalry when a soldier commented some of the horses are 'grumpy'. If you look at their withers it is totally apparent their tack doesn't fit comfortably; they stand tied up in stalls with little opportunity to actual just be horses - wouldn't that make you grumpy!

Every aspect of all our working lives could leave us vulnerable to an accident but in this instance i really do think safety of the horses needs to be considered more fully. I would dream of galloping my horse anywhere at the moment the ground is so hard it would be tantamount to galloping on tarmac.

These horses have no choice about the job they do and I think it's time we all started considering things from the perspective of the horse; they are not our possessions or here on this planet for our convenience.

I feel no pity for the soldiers who choose to do this job I only feel sorry for the needless loss of life. i would also condemn the Daily Mail who continue to publish for sensationalism not news.
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Ooooooh do I detect a troll in our midst?? :eek::(
 
horsey_jo said:
Horsemanship is still very much relevant in modern warfare.

US Troops have used native horses successfully in battle in Afghanistan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horse-Soldiers-Extraordinary-Special-Afghanistan/dp/1847398235/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1307447139&sr=8-8

Also, horses are an important part of Afghan culture. A donkey is probably the most valuable thing a family owns and is often key to ensuring a steady income.
In this 'heart and minds' mission another role of forces on the ground is to attend to the domesticated animals of the locals and offer advice/treatment.
In May this year a british army vet started a 6 months tour of Afghan to run a vet clinic in Helmand Province
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/ArmyVetRunsClinicsForAfghanFarmers.htm

Also, the Kings Troop maybe mostly ceremonial but all serving personnel they are still eligible to deploy to Afghanistan and six or seven members of the Troop are away at any one time.
Also, they have an operational role as part of the territorial defence of the United Kingdom - and when the firefighters go on strike they are driving the 'Green Goddesses' and when we have flooding they are filling sandbags round our power stations.

They are not just pretty horses in Hyde Park for our amusement - they are a key link in keeping the general population in touch with our armed forces and they also have an important role to play away from the stables.

Long may this special tradition continue :D:D:D:D
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I am appalled to hear this. I was even more disgusted when I had a look inside the book. It has an utterly horrific account of how one horse was split-in-half. And others lying in pieces after being bombarded with multiple explosions. I thought the western world stopped using horses in warfare decades ago. How foolish I was to think we had progressed. Shame on the Americans - SHAME!!

Rest peacefully Murphy.
 
Over2You said:
I am appalled to hear this. I was even more disgusted when I had a look inside the book. It has an utterly horrific account of how one horse was split-in-half. And others lying in pieces after being bombarded with multiple explosions. I thought the western world stopped using horses in warfare decades ago. How foolish I was to think we had progressed. Shame on the Americans - SHAME!!

Rest peacefully Murphy.
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It was not the serving soldiers decision to make and many of the troops in this book had no riding or horse handling experience.

All our british troops have the opportunity to ride throughout their career and it is mandatory training for many officers. We also have the Defence Animal Centre at Melton Mowbray that trains soldiers horsemanship skills and oversees the correct treatment of animals under military care.

I agree with your sentiments O2Y.
Luckily we are more considerate than the Americans have been in the past and I believe this only highlights how important it is to have units such as the Kings Troop, The Blues and Royal and the Househol Cav in our modern military. There is not much that these soldiers would not do for their horses.
 
I have just been in contact with my son, Kings troop but currently deployed in Afghanistan. He would like to(on behalf of Kings Troop) thank everyone for the kind words after the loss of Murphy.
You are right although many think of Kings Troop as a purely ceremonial troop but as stated a number can be deployed to war zones at any time, my son has also done his tour of Iraq. We all see regiments coming back to a well deserved welcome home but there are just as many soldiers deployed in small numbers who do their time and come back without anyone except their family really noticing.
 
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