Kissing Spine Operations - bruising/swelling

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CBAnglo

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My TB had KS operation in the end of August 2012 and had 3 vertebrae removed (T11, 13 and 15). There was A LOT of swelling in the area, which mostly went down after a couple of weeks.

It then took several months for T11 and T13 to settle down, but there is still a small lump around T15 and he is sensitive to touch when you touch the bump but not the surrounding tissue/muscles.

I am worried that it has taken so long for the swelling/bruising to go down - it has now been 6 months. We have been lunging in a bridle for 2 months and he is mostly ok (also had PSD op but that is a different issue), so we thought we would try a roller last weekend (just have a standard roller (blue and red striped one) and put sheepskin underneath. He has been lunged with this tack hundreds of times in the past without issue. Just put roller on his back, didnt even try girth and his ears went flat back and he tried to bite.

Now, this horse didnt display this behaviour when he was being ridden or lunged (with the same tack) before the op (vets were so convinced it wasnt KS until they saw the xrays as he didnt have any of the classic signs but two of the veterbrae where rubbing together and were beginning to fuse). Maybe I just tried too soon and he just needs more time?

Can anyone else whose horse had T15 removed give me any guidance on how long it took for the swelling to subside. My vet (who didnt perform the op - it was done by a Rossdales surgeon) said that it would be 12 months before we could ride again.

I know several people with horses who were on board within 3-4 month but I appreciate that they had different processes removed etc.

Just wondering if there is something wrong - vet doesnt seem worried at all? Horse can have as much time off as he needs, I just want to make sure all is ok. Otherwise I shall be paying a visit to Rossdales ...
 
HI Mine was oppereated on in November last year. We are 4 months post surgery and I am hoping to get on at Easter. Moose does not have much swelling but I have been told that the bumps may stay. Have you spoken to your vet about his reaction to the roller??? Mine horse was presribed water treadmill to help with rehab. I have a page on Facebook Horses with Kissing Spine and there are lots of people post surgery who maybe able to shed more light on this for you????
 
Thanks - I am one of those rare people who is not on FB (at times like this I wish I were!)

The spine is defintely bumpy and I know those will stay however there is hard swelling to the base of the spine which is what I am concerned about. I asked the vet and he said that they would go in time (about 6 months) but I am just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I am guessing your horse doesnt have the same issues.
 
My horse had KS surgery last year, he had T13 and 15 removed, he was really quite swollen post surgery but it soon went down, about 4 weeks or so! I was back on at about 3.5 months, it does sound like something might be amiss?
 
annunziata said:
no he does not, but I have used a massage pad which did help remove some of the swelling. Have you tried one???
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He has a cyclossage rug which he wears for 45 mins about 4 or 5 times a week. It hasnt really done much for the swelling although I cant really tell, the swelling definitely has gone down in that time and there is no fluidy swelling, the only residual swelling is quite firm and is at the base of T15.

Which pad did you use? I also have an equilibrium massage pad so maybe give that a try too?
 
WellyBaggins said:
My horse had KS surgery last year, he had T13 and 15 removed, he was really quite swollen post surgery but it soon went down, about 4 weeks or so! I was back on at about 3.5 months, it does sound like something might be amiss?
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Right, now I am feeling sick and panicking. I will ring vet now.

BTW he had a scan about 3 months post-op when there was still a fair amount of swelling and the vet said all fine. how many scans did your horse have?
 
Try not to panic, it may just be some infection. I was told to watch my horse as his swelling was considered abnormal, he has two incisions, both have healed fine, you can barely notice them, just a couple of tiny dips, if you didn't know you prob wouldn't see them, try not to worry, good luck :)
 
The lumps have been there since day 1 ... the wound was clean through, no discharge etc.

Vet now booked to ultrasound. I am mixed angry/scared. Angry that the vet saw him 3 months ago and said all fine but the lump was there at the time.

He has said that it might also be scar tissue - but again the wound was clean. No abscesses etc.
 
Back to feeling sick and scared ... was all going too well, he even coped with 6 months of box rest and the obligatory maniacal explosions every time he left the box (he constantly tried to kick me in the head for 2 whole months of in hand walking).

Just this last bit of swelling ... ultrasound tomorrow afternoon though, so we shall see what happens then.
 
Something does not sound right. I did 4 weeks box rest with 4 weeks pen rest 4 weeks turn out and 4 weeks lunging and and then 4 weeks ridden walk then 4 weeks ridden trot then free as a bird in the 12 weeks rehab to full ridden work we do 12 weeks of treadmill work- one session once week. I would speak to your vet. You said it was done at rossdales I am in Cambridgeshire who did it??
Moose had two removed no idea which two but there were 4 culprits and they removed two

This is his back at week 6-7
moosebackweek6_zps85000b0b.jpg


And here is his back week 12
moosebackweek8_zps889e0ba5.jpg
 
Wow, that looks really good. My boy's back is a bit bumpier but the hard lump looks like the pic you took at 6-7 weeks.

Was that lump hard to the touch? was he sensitive on it?

Its actually in a very similar place.

the box rest was because he had PSD surgery as well; then the snow came and then all the mud so it wasnt safe to turn him out. he was supposed to be on box rest only 6 weeks and then small pen turnout but he isnt sensible and would have hurt himself in a small pen. So he had 6 weeks box rest, then 6 weeks walking in hand until he got to be too dangerous. He then had his 3 monthly scan on suspensories and back and then we started lunging at the beginning of December for about 4 weeks. Then nothing for about 6 weeks because of the snow and ice and then lunged for 2 weeks and now is in a 6 acre field with my other ones. He will be kept in now because of the rain as I dont want him standing in the mud with dodgy suspensories. I will continue to lunge every day though.

I will also try my equilibrium massage pad, although as I said previously he has the cyclossage on every other day for 45 mins (but can increase to every day).
 
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Oh and the surgeon was Richard Payne. I have never had good experiences with Rossdales and will only use AHT however as he was having 2 operations and needed to be kept still after the PSD op I ended up having the surgeries at my local practice (30 mins drive away) as opposed to 2 hrs to newmarket. I was told that Richard would be doing the surgery at AHT anyway so it seemed kinder to spare my horse the travel (he does not load well so always stresses out so I didnt want him struggling through an extra 1.5hrs or more if we hit traffic).

Richard travelled down and did both surgeries and I spoke to him after each one and he said it was all fine. When I finally got to see my boy I was alarmed at all of the swelling (I have seen other horses post KS-op and they werent half as bad) but all the vets said this was normal. The swelling did go down really quickly after about 2 weeks but there was resifual swelling even after 3 months (when he went for his scan) which didnt go down until the end of January (5 months post-op) and now over the last month there has been no change on the bony bit.

Vet saw it a couple of times since (he has been out to see one of my other ones a couple of times) and didnt seem concerned.
 
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No moose was no sensitive but he is tough as old boots!!

Oh I see lots of issues poor you!!! I use an equalibrium massage pad that has really helped the swelling. Also the water treadmill will help build his muscle where he is missing bone. Maybe he needs water work to build up his topline to help the lumps (which I am lead to believe is scaring)

Moose was far to dangerous to hand walk so he lived in his pen perminatly till he was able to work and even then I just let him out in the school to go mental and he did not disapoint with the mentalness

I would speak to your vet and if you are unhappy I would speak to another vet, I used David and Fellowes farm he was very pragmatical and to the point. Your boy may just need time but if he is still sore that does not sound right. I would get them out to see him
 
Yep, booked vet to come and ultrasound tomorrow afternoon - I try to spare him travelling. He is normally good 5 times out of 6 but as he is still not 100% sound I dont want him rearing all over the place (and he still finds being outside his box far too exciting at the moment).

Going up to see him in a couple of hours so I will take some pics and try to post them here later.
 
on another note Moose did not have any secondary scan one it was done it was done and we had an x-ray I would speak to your surgon as I was concered and I kicked and screamed and he came to see him and it put my mind at rest
 
annunziata said:
on another note Moose did not have any secondary scan one it was done it was done and we had an x-ray I would speak to your surgon as I was concered and I kicked and screamed and he came to see him and it put my mind at rest
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Vet was fine; called him this afternoon so he re-arranged his diary so he could come out tomorrow afternoon. He is scared of me (I am a lawyer!)

Sorry, the secondary scan was an xray of his back and ultrasound of the suspensories. He is rising 14 so I knew the recovery would take a bit more time (he is also very fine skinned etc so I knew again that the wound would take longer to heal). The wound itself healed very well and the vet was surprised that there was no discharge etc and was so clean (we bandaged that horse to within an inch of his life).
 
Ohh cool let me know how you get on!! Moose is quite thicked skinned I am sure yours is all fine but always worth checking. Moose started to travel and load better since having the surgery. I popped a thread on here today with pics of the treadmill for everyone to see. My vet is scared of me too I just will not stop hastling him till I get my way :)
Mr Moose is 9 this year. How are his suspensories now??
 
My horse had five processes removed in that region by Rossdales and had no swelling or pain. It was actually unbelievable how little pain he was in. So I think your horse's reaction is very abnormal, I'm afraid. Was he done under general, or did he have the standing sedation (like my boy)? Sadly, my boy was still the same under saddle after the op, although I did get back on him, but it wasn't successful. His problem was panic 'explosions' after the girth had been tightened. Until this week he was just the same. However, he is now on ulcer medication and it seems to be working.

I really would not be happy with your boy's progress. It may be that a bone chip has been left inside as this would cause the reaction you describe. Has he been re xrayed since the op?
 
Yes, he was xrayed 3 months afterwards (beginning of December) and then we started the lunge work. He still had some soft swelling at that point and the hard lump (which is now half the size it was then). At the time I experessed concern that there was still swelling and the vet said that it was normal for this area and he would need another 3 months off at least, and possibly 6 months (i.e. 9 months after op) before ridden work could start.

I dont have a problem with how much time he has off or if he isnt ridden again, I am just not happy that there is still a lump and that it causes him pain.

He never showed any problems with girth at all and no problems with back. He went in after he went mental on a hack and sat down on his hocks because he was rearing and bucking. Susp were suspected but the did a full scintigraphy and found hot spots in the back and xrays showed that 5 processes were close, two were rubbing together and causing calcification and would have eventually fused without the op.

Vet seems to think it is scarring ... not sure what that means though, is there anyway to get rid of the scar tissue? I wont be able to get a saddle on him if there isnt.
 
Our horse has something similar. He had the new ks op following vets advice. He is supposed to be back in work now but he too has a hard painful lump on his back.
we have taken him back to the vets twice and have basically been told to be patient and it should settle down, we are pretty disappoinTed.
The vet has chipped the top of a vertebrae when cutting the ligaments and this seems to be the route of his issues.
He is sensitivite on it, there is no way we could work him.
 
WB: that is interesting I am going to look into that.

Charlie: sorry to hear about your boy. Sounds horrendous, did they say if there is a chip?

In our case it is one of the vertebrae that has been removed so I don't think there is a chip (plus nothing showed on the xrays). Vet seems to think it is scar tissue so interested in ways to reduce it.
 
Yes WB that is very interesting Moosie is fine but I know others who have had the surgery that maybe interestd. Charlie76 the chipped the bone?!?! Did you have the ligaments cut????? The removed Moose's bone so we had the tradition opp
CBanglo fingers crossed for today I am sure it will go well. Hopefully you and your vet can come come up with an action plan!
 
Hi,

My horse had surgery in October but had his interspinous ligament cut and seems to be doing well. My friends horse had the process removed in Oct and has just got on board after rehabbing him. His spine is lumpy but non painful to touch. Have you had lots of physio? I would stay clear from equissage type pads as i have heard they can aggrevate KS horses. Magnetic therapy is supposed to be very good (im savig for a mag rug and boots) hope your boy is ok :) x
 
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