Kissing Spines & Gastric Ulcers - the latest medical trend?

Girlracer

Girlracer

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2008
Messages
2,712
Location
Worcestershire
Visit site
Speaking as someone who has a horse that was diagnosed with KS do you think that KS/gastric ulcers is a bit of a medical trend at the moment? As an explanation for any misbehaviour?

Before consulting the vets with my horse I hadn't considered kissing spines for him, however I did suspect ulcers knowing ex-racers could be prone to it. The vets really was the last option for me, before admitting defeat and gaining an expensive field ornament. I found he had a healthy gut anyway, but un-fortunately x-rays showed KS.

To be fair the vets didn't mention KS at first, and it was only when soreness through his back was found during a full work up that they decided to x-ray. He's been 100% different horse since treatment and rehab, and i'm so pleased they found something I guess. But I had never really heard of it up until about a year and a half ago, now it's everywhere. I mean how many posts must there be on this forum alone from worried owners or owners who have just received that diagnosis.

I can't help but think that the same quantity of horses suffered from it years ago as they do now?

I don't know, just general musings I guess! What are your thoughts?
 
Yes they are medical trends - and have probably existed in fairly similar quantities historically, just have lain undiagnosed.

However there are two things that bug me;

1. gastric ulcers 'diagnosed' and 'treated' without actually gastroscoping first.

2. KS being diagnosed from x-rays and operated on without nerve blocking first.

Since KS is widely visible on x-rays, even if just very slightly impinging vertebrae, I don't think enough emphasis is put on finding out whether those radio graphic features are actually linked to the behaviour of the horse. Having witnessed quite a lot of nerve-blocking recently, I have noticed that the two are quite often not linked - and therefore going down the op route doesn't make sense to me.

I also think that the increasing popularity of TB ex-racers has a lot to do with the diagnosis of both of these conditions - both very common in TBs and with people now very keen to do the utmost best for ex-racers they are quite quick to get the vets in for a thorough investigation for behavior that in the past may just have been put down to being an ex-racer.
 
Last edited:
I thought the same thing myself today - it is an awfully trendy thing to be worrying about at the moment ;)

Thankfully, my horse has always been an arse about his girth - he also is ticklish about being groomed there, so I'm not concerned, and certainly wouldn't be spending copious amounts of money on checking that its not anything more sinister unless I had real reason to.
 
Yes, I'm sure the same quantity did suffer for it, but it went undiagnosed. That's a bad thing, surely? It's hardly a 'trend' these days, simply more people are investigating their horses' 'bad behaviour' instead if simply assuming the horse is naughty. Calling it a trend seems a bit dismissive?
 
I agree to an extent - only a couple of years ago 'hock spavin' seemed to be the buzz word....

I think I read somewhere, (and therefore stand to be corrected!), that 7 out of 10 horses would show up some mild KS on x-rays, although the majority display no problems.

I also agree about ulcers - the prevalence of ulcers may also be linked to the current 'trend' for rehoming ex-racers, and as a type they are more prone to ulcers, so more are being diagnosed.
 
is'nt said that up to 80% of horses have some sort of spinal issue?

my gelding too has been diagnosed with kissing spines....after 3 months of trying to figure out what was wrong with no vet due to cost. it was aggrivated by a loan rider who rode him incorrectly
the vets first came out with the idea his ribs were bruised due to a kick
then his ribs were broken
finally after bone scan and xrays the ks showed up.

the people who get this condition diagnosed are more 'sensitive' owners that years ago. we treat our horses more like pets/friend rather than an animal who has a job. so natural if we spot something wrong of course we are going to try and do what best

the people who get these horses are often not 'lifetime' owners (born and bred around horses) so their riding skills may not be helping the problem.....does this contribute to the rise in 'known' cases? because ks can be in a horse its whole life and may never rear its ugly head!

vets diagnostic skills have advanced in the past 5/10 years. they seem to have a go at treating anything rather than the answer of ' nothing but a bullet now'.

i no our vet sugery goes in trends....heartbars right now..... and major colic sugery
 
also ulcers could be due to poor feeding of horse, with novice owners not understanding the amount of FIBRE a horse needs....... small handful of chaff and no grass in field isnt exactly going to help all that stomach acid is it?
 
TwoStroke said:
Yes, I'm sure the same quantity did suffer for it, but it went undiagnosed. That's a bad thing, surely? It's hardly a 'trend' these days, simply more people are investigating their horses' 'bad behaviour' instead if simply assuming the horse is naughty. Calling it a trend seems a bit dismissive?
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this. There's a lot of people who dismiss bad behavior as schooling issues but usually there is an underlying problem? And with the gastric ulcers and ex-racehorses, isn't it proven 93% or something like that will have them? If you pumping huge amounts of concentrates into a delicate digestive system, most will have them. Fad or not, isn't it just raising awareness?
 
Interesting replies :)

I certainly don't have anything against the fact it's all becoming more common knowledge now, it definitely isn't a negative thing. But on the flip side, is it not the case that now it's becoming common to worry about an underlying medical issue rather than looking at anything else. Whether that be jockey, tack, feeding, routine etc etc...

RF - you raise a good point re-nerve blocking actually. My boy wasn't nerve blocked, but he wasn't operated on either. As I said he is totally different now, so I think this was most definitely the underlying cause. He was also cold backed, which he no longer is. But I guess it would be more correct to determine whether it was DEFINITELY the cause of behavioural issues rather than just rushing into surgery?
 
I think the ulcers are often from management issues, which would not have been the case in the past. The rise of the equine feed market has a lot to answer for imo. Was talking to one of the women who works in our local tack/feed shop at the weekend. We had talked to her in the past about feeding grass nuts to her horse, after twelve months of him having them to replace cereal feed, she has now become somewhat evangelical about it lol and is selling loads of them, instead of the high cereal/high molasses stuff. The rise in use of haylage is also a contributer imo, as too few people understand that adding low quality fibre to it means that the horse can continue to trickle feed, without becoming obese. Turn out used to be the norm, except for specialised working horses, who had enough exercise to keep them going.
Horses were broken to riding at a later stage than is currently the fashion, they were usually broken and brought on by real 'nagsmen', not amateurs, and so were taught to carry themselves in the safest way possible for them. Horses were quite an expensive commodity, so people owning them tended to have a degree of comitment.

Vetinary science has improved over time, so there tends to be more treatment, than in the past.
 
two years ago i rescued a ex showjumper who had been written off with kissing spines her previous owners had been told that unless she was operated on for 4 fused vertebrates should would never be ridden again after passing through dealers i brought her in very poor condition built her up and slowley brought her back into work she never showed any symptoms of kissing spines apart from girthing up which a lot of mares are not happy with although once she put weight back on she did get sore behind withers where the kissing spines were suppose to be but this turned out to be from the saddle and after changing it to a keiffer saddle with cut back head as she was high withered the soreness dissapeared so was this the problem all along so two years on this mare is back out competing showjumping and dressage before this mare was written of by vets she was worth £12.000 to her previous owner and i brought her for £1000 research says a lot of horses if x rayed would show kissing spines but carry on with there working lifes unnoticed
 
My boy is currently in the process of being investigated for KS... really hoping it's not but if it is am going to make sure they nerve block as well as x-ray after reading this!
 
I can only comment on gastric ulcers - I have had two horses treated with gastroguard - and the change in less than 48 hours to them made me realise that it was obvious they were suffering.

Now I know that the treatment is as quick to act as it is, I would not hesitate in spending the money on the gastroguard... I would not bother with the scope - to be honest in both horses the change has literally happened in front of my eyes.

1 ex racer and 1 horse retired was on long term bute...we then changed to danilon and we had her for another 5 years
 
Last edited:
agree with you totally gingerwitch having also been in the same desperate boat, gastroguard was a complete marvel, i wouldn't bother scoping if gastrogaurd is doing the trick. esp as insurance wouldnt cover it
 
I am not sure that it is a case of being more fashionable but more likely a case of technology being better able to detect it.
 
I have seen the vast number of threads (mine included) and thought similar to you OP.

I'm not sure how much is a 'trend' (i dont think trend is the right word, it sort of implies people will want to follow it but i know what you mean) but I think the more knowledge comes up about a topic the more vets/owners attribute certain symptoms so you end up with a lot of horses being investigated for it.

Our very good local vet (not my practise) once came out to a horse and diagnosed it with suspensory ligament damage (required an op in the end) but he did say that some vets were diagnosing this more and more and it was the latest 'thing' so to speak. So i think the same could be applied to ks and ulcers.

Although, there is research showing high % of horses have them, there are more exracer owners nowadays so therefore more who will investigate (i once worked for a trainer who knew a horse had ulcers but chose to just put it out to dr. Green rather than treat medicinally) and treat than before.

I'm not sure if it's the latest 'fad' but i think that sometimes you get a bit of a sheep feeling on here - when people start threads it was (and mostly still is) always commented straight away have you checked back teeth etc, but at the minute it seems to be 'that symptom there sounds like ulcers and that could be KS'.

I think there would be some differences in the amount of horses that had ulcers or KS but then there are so many environmental factors to consider as well as research, knowledge and experience.
 
It also reflects the fact that more people have their horses insured and vets are willing to carry out every test under the sun (I doubt anyone who has a horse with KS has anything left on their claim).

People are also more aware of KS in general; I think everyone knows someone with a horse with KS or has a horse with KS (I have a horse with KS + two friends with horses with KS).

Re ulcers, I am sure this is more to do with the way we keep horses; most yards are overcrowded with restricted overgrazed fields; its no wonder horses have digestive problems. Added to all the crap that they put into some of those sugery mixes.

A couple of years ago everything had navicular or navicular syndrome. Before that it was spavin. It seems to come in waves.
 
Lummy, I feel like I am on this particular band wagon at the moment.

Scopedfor ulcers last year - clear, next stage is x-ray for KS.

Am going to get a different saddle checker out just in case, in the hopes that will do the trick, but I wonder about how far we investigate these things and how much money we throw at them.
 
My horse was diagnosed with KS at the end of October he has been written on as a dangerous unpreditable horse and it turned out 2 years down the line he has KS he has two removed at the end o f November and should return to a higher level of work, which is fab. He is the most lovely horse but became more dangerous and unrideable. he is now far more comfortable and is bouncing around and able to move and bend which he could not. I think there are trends but there is also advancements in medicine and treatments so we are find out more.
For those who are interested in KS there is my facebook page horses with kissing spine for people who are just going through it gone through it or just interested!
 
Whilst I do understand where your coming from- they do seem very popular...My Horse has also recently been diagnosed with KS and when ever I tell people I get the same reaction "oh yes another KS, of course he has"
It annoys me a bit. My horse very blindingly obviously is very sore in his back and the x rays very obviously showed a problem with his vertebrae where in the exact place of his soreness one has a extra bit grown and they are rubbing.
Ive seen the xrays and ive seen the horses reaction. I feel a bit like im being told im lying or just no one takes it seriously.
I don't think my horse went out and joined in with the next big thing!

Maybe its more a case of that we have better veterinary diagnosis and treatment these days? we are always learning about new things and how to treat which should be considered a good thing.
 
Maybe its more a case of that we have better veterinary diagnosis and treatment these days? we are always learning about new things and how to treat which should be considered a good thing.[/QUOTE]

this ^^^^
 
Good point.

When I was 18 I had a horse whom had a 'double wither' - ie had been involved in a fall and vertebrae had fused I suspect, although he was never x-rayed, he was always sound and moved phenominally. We called him a camel.

He didn't misbehave and went on to become advanced 3DE, being placed at Blenheim. (Ridden by somebody else I hasten to add, I couldn't ride a side of him!!!)

Point I'm trying to make is that clearly not all spinal abnormalities, even really huge ones lead to poor performance and behaviour.

Good post, I'd forgotten about him and his back and this does make me wonder about all the kissing spine ops.
 
That's really interesting scarymare - and it doesn't wholly surprise me. Some horses are made of seriously tough stuff!

Girlracer ... I think when it comes to palliative care type treatment of KS then not to nerve block is fine. But those who embark on an operation done under GA without really knowing if the radiographic findings are linked to the behaviour of the horse or not, seems mad to me - but plenty do it. I think it is also relevant that the palliative treatment of KS is in many respects 'going back to basics' and 'good management' and therefore would perhaps create improvement in a lot of horses whether or not they actually were suffering pain from KS. Just food for thought really...
 
AprilBlossom said:
There's another trend doing the rounds, everyone wants to 'rescue' a horse...
Click to expand...

I rescued my old pony, got her back for free, awful state she was in after being left in a dirty stable for 14 weeks and not had a farrier in a year.

Saying that i only rescued her because she used to be my pony.
 
Yes BUT my horse has been exhibiting symptoms sonething isnt right for along time... even after xrays the KS word wasnt mentioned until bone scans, nerve blocking etc.

I personally think a lot of gastric ulcer cases are linked to modern management....ie lack of understanding about how the horses digestice tract evolved and what it evolved to digest...lack of forage!
 
yes i paid for my mare only cause i could nt bear to leave her where she ended up after passing through the knacker man when she had been diagonised with ks she was almost skin and bone and covered in sores and cuts from laying on concrete in a stable even my vet was shocked at her and had to gradually introduce her back on to hard feed and it took a long time to put muscle back on her this mare went from being a well bred showjumper to the knackerman on the strengh of ks but now she is well and fit and competing again makes me think how many other horses are written of like this
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top