Lacking muscle around withers

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Aoibhinn

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Hi all,

Just noticed this today on my fella. He has no muscle at all around his withers, just his spine and then dips on either side of the withers. This causes his withers to be very prominent. Is it a cause for worry it will he gain the muscle over time - only in proper work for the last 10-12 weeks.

If so, how can muscle be built up successfully? He is schooled 4 times a week, out during the day and stabled at night. Thanks in advance! :)
 
Sukistokes2 said:
Have you had his saddle checked? that is a classic sign of a tight saddle.
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Agree with above. Does he have a regular physio check? If so, am surprised that this muscle atrophy has not been picked up on!

If you have a saddle with an inter-changeable gullet I would be looking to go up a size. If not, get a good saddle fitter to re-assess....or maybe do that anyway, depending on your own level of expertise/knowledge re saddle fitting.
 
My knowledge of saddle fitting would be highly limited to say the least gunner! :D his saddle was fitted last May but it seems like it was fitted wrong/he changed if the case is that it is too tight
 
Aoibhinn said:
My knowledge of saddle fitting would be highly limited to say the least gunner! :D his saddle was fitted last May but it seems like it was fitted wrong/he changed if the case is that it is too tight
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Hey! Almost 12 months on it is quite reasonable to suppose that the saddle was initially fitted correctly but that the horse has changed shape due to correct work in the interim to build muscle! Alternatively, it may never have been fitted correctly in the first instance!
 
gunnergundog said:
Hey! Almost 12 months on it is quite reasonable to suppose that the saddle was initially fitted correctly but that the horse has changed shape due to correct work in the interim to build muscle! Alternatively, it may never have been fitted correctly in the first instance!
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My guess would be that it has been wrong for him all along as his work since has been extremely sporadic! Would physio be of any benefit to him I wonder?
 
Aoibhinn said:
My guess would be that it has been wrong for him all along as his work since has been extremely sporadic! Would physio be of any benefit to him I wonder?
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Physio will be of benefit SHORT TERM until such time as you place the ill-fitting saddle on his back again.....if indeed that is the fundamental cause of his problem! :)

Eradicate the cause of the problem and then you are at least 50% of the way there to curing it! :D Depending on how severe the issue is, yes, you may well need a couple of physio sessions and maybe advice on schooling techniques to re-build that correct musculature.
 
gunnergundog said:
Physio will be of benefit SHORT TERM until such time as you place the ill-fitting saddle on his back again.....if indeed that is the fundamental cause of his problem! :)

Eradicate the cause of the problem and then you are at least 50% of the way there to curing it! :D Depending on how severe the issue is, yes, you may well need a couple of physio sessions and maybe advice on schooling techniques to re-build that correct musculature.
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How would you suggest I go about sorting it, call out a saddle fitter and get them to assess him? Apologies for all the questions, never had any issues with saddles before!
 
You could try http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/ where there is a list of qualified saddle fitters by region. But you need to ensure your saddle fitter doesn't fit the saddle to his actual 'wasted' shape. The saddle needs to actually be too big around the withers to allow the muscle to develop again. When the horse works correctly, the back comes up and the muscles lift so there needs to be room for this to happen, otherwise there will be no improvement whatsoever. The only saddle Im aware of which takes this into account is a Balance saddle. Have a look at their website http://www.balanceinternational.com/ for full info. If you can't stretch to buying one of theirs, you need still to make sure your existing saddle has enough room to allow the muscles to redevelop.
 
Aoibhinn said:
How would you suggest I go about sorting it, call out a saddle fitter and get them to assess him? Apologies for all the questions, never had any issues with saddles before!
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Whereabouts are you Aoibhinn?

Do you have a good professional close to you that can assess saddle fit? This need not necessarily be a saddle-fitter/seller per se! My first step would be to get the saddle checked: is the tree sound? is the tree an appropriate shape for my horse's back? is the flocking even and without lumps? is the saddle an appropriate width and also length for my horse's back?

Having identified any issues above I would try and rectify those (as cheaply as possible!) - maybe by borrowing alternative saddles from friends or the saddler himself, if you have used one!

If you see an improvement in his way of going, then great! I would treat the horse to at least one physio session to try and undo any problems that may be latent and causing issues from your old saddle.

HOWEVER, if the horse has long standing issues it may be that you will need multiple physio sessions or maybe even veterinary intervention.

Try to find a knowledgeable, trusted professional horseman close to you that can advise.....so much better than over the internet in cases like this!
 
Aoibhinn said:
How would you suggest I go about sorting it, call out a saddle fitter and get them to assess him? Apologies for all the questions, never had any issues with saddles before!
Click to expand...

Whereabouts are you Aoibhinn?

Do you have a good professional close to you that can assess saddle fit? This need not necessarily be a saddle-fitter/seller per se! My first step would be to get the saddle checked: is the tree sound? is the tree an appropriate shape for my horse's back? is the flocking even and without lumps? is the saddle an appropriate width and also length for my horse's back?

Having identified any issues above I would try and rectify those (as cheaply as possible!) - maybe by borrowing alternative saddles from friends or the saddler himself, if you have used one!

If you see an improvement in his way of going, then great! I would treat the horse to at least one physio session to try and undo any problems that may be latent and causing issues from your old saddle.

HOWEVER, if the horse has long standing issues it may be that you will need multiple physio sessions or maybe even veterinary intervention.

Try to find a knowledgeable, trusted professional horseman close to you that can advise.....so much better than over the internet in cases like this!
 
I am in Ireland so unlikely that anyone will be able to recommend somebody! I could definitely try to organise loans of saddles that might be more suitable.

Thank you for that advice Jane, I wouldn't have thought of that. No point buying one that sits on him the exact same way and restricts the muscles!
 
If you are in Cork, Clare or Antrim I could PM you people I would trust to advise. Not saddle fitters, and not people that sell saddles but people that have a good knowledge of the working of a horse and the restrictions that a badly fitted saddle can impose.
 
Where abouts in Ireland? There are lots of forum members living in ireland, myself included.

After recently having had saddle fit problems myself and minor muscle wastage issues picked up early I can say that if it is as bad as you say then I wouldn't be riding at the moment. Job no. 1 is physio, job no.2 a good trainer who can help you through the exercises your physio gives you, groundwork and lunging for a short while and then worry about the saddle!!
 
Aoibhinn said:
Hi all,

Just noticed this today on my fella. He has no muscle at all around his withers, just his spine and then dips on either side of the withers.

:)
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If it is really this bad then yes, I would stop until I had him seen by a physio

If the saddle is causing the damage then I wouldn't ride in it ever again!!!
 
Wheels said:
If it is really this bad then yes, I would stop until I had him seen by a physio

If the saddle is causing the damage then I wouldn't ride in it ever again!!!
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Honestly I never really understood why he had little muscle at his withers until somebody commented on the fit of his saddle the other day, describing it as 'atrocious'. This led me to investigate it and it seems as if it doesn't fit him right unfortunately. It is amazingly comfortable
 
Definitely don't get the same saddler back again. I know of one saddler around here who has fitted several horses with too narrow saddles and caused several cases of muscle wastage as well as suffering horses and oblivious owners who think they have a well fitting saddle.
 
Which saddlery do you use? The only one I know of in the vicinity is the one in Midleton, but not sure if they fit saddles, or if they do, if they are any good. The shop is nice though !
 
wench said:
Which saddlery do you use? The only one I know of in the vicinity is the one in Midleton, but not sure if they fit saddles, or if they do, if they are any good. The shop is nice though !
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I went out to Dulhorys in Kilguilley House, Mallow!
 
My horse is well into his teens and I noticed that his withers were becoming more prominent, and the saddle is regularly checked.

I contacted Lavinia Mitchell, who sells her own saddles, but used to be a Balance Saddle fitter and she recommended
a foam pad between his saddle and the sheepskin numnah. Although the saddle was a good "fit" it was settling down to much behind his withers. I was looking at him today and could see a big improvement in his shape, and he is only being hacked, and didn't do a lot in the winter, so the improvement can only be due to the pad.
I think it is Prolite, rather than "foam".
 
Orangehorse said:
My horse is well into his teens and I noticed that his withers were becoming more prominent, and the saddle is regularly checked.

I contacted Lavinia Mitchell, who sells her own saddles, but used to be a Balance Saddle fitter and she recommended
a foam pad between his saddle and the sheepskin numnah. Although the saddle was a good "fit" it was settling down to much behind his withers. I was looking at him today and could see a big improvement in his shape, and he is only being hacked, and didn't do a lot in the winter, so the improvement can only be due to the pad.
I think it is Prolite, rather than "foam".
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This just provided extra padding to help keep the saddle from becoming too tight is it? I ride him with a numnah and also use a half pad already
 
Trouble in Ireland is that there aren't as many saddle fitters/physios as are in the uk so it can be harder to fix things
 
Aoibhinn said:
This just provided extra padding to help keep the saddle from becoming too tight is it? I ride him with a numnah and also use a half pad already
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If the saddle is too narrow putting extra padding under it will make it narrower which will not help, if it is dropping because it is wide or the muscles have dropped away due to lack of work then extra padding is a good short term option.
 
wench said:
Trouble in Ireland is that there aren't as many saddle fitters/physios as are in the uk so it can be harder to fix things
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You're definitely right there wench. If you suggested to anyone that you might get the physio out to see a horse you would be looked at like you had two heads!
 
Aoibhinn said:
This just provided extra padding to help keep the saddle from becoming too tight is it? I ride him with a numnah and also use a half pad already
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Was the saddle fitted with the numnah and half pad? If not, it won't fit when they're on.

I bought my horse a lovely thick, comfy saddlecloth. Tried it on. Did 1 lap of school. Had to stop and take it off, horse was much happier with nothing than with big cushion!
 
be positive said:
If the saddle is too narrow putting extra padding under it will make it narrower which will not help, if it is dropping because it is wide or the muscles have dropped away due to lack of work then extra padding is a good short term option.
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The saddle isn't too narrow, it is a good fit, but due to a change in his work his shape had altered. The pad has definitely helped. The thickness can be reduced if necessary. But I did need a longer girth.
 
Orangehorse said:
My horse is well into his teens and I noticed that his withers were becoming more prominent, and the saddle is regularly checked.

I contacted Lavinia Mitchell, who sells her own saddles, but used to be a Balance Saddle fitter and she recommended
a foam pad between his saddle and the sheepskin numnah. Although the saddle was a good "fit" it was settling down to much behind his withers. I was looking at him today and could see a big improvement in his shape, and he is only being hacked, and didn't do a lot in the winter, so the improvement can only be due to the pad.
I think it is Prolite, rather than "foam".
Click to expand...

I also use lavinia she fits a much wider saddlle then uses a shim numnah to fill the hollows caused by muscle wastage my horse has gained so much of the lost muscle since using this method. I am not sure she goes as far as ireland though might be worth looking on her website.
 
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