Laminitis paranoia

[gallopingby]

I was thinking of getting a thorn pad as they sounded good but maybe wont.

SO1=you may be fine in a thorn pad if you’er small and light, they work well on small ponies but can cause problems when used on bigger ones due to pressure. The CL sheepskins look much nicer and seem to offer more support. You might be able to pick up a secondhand thorn pad or a CL. In your situation l’d be trying the CL.Getting saddle fitters is difficult in many areas and then you often have to wait for them to make or alter a saddle. It’s likely Bert will change shape a few times more as he’s still young so it could be a useful investment. The videos linked to their website seem to be in mainly in German? But the jockeys look to secure and the horses are going freely. There’s one of a pony cantering round in the UK if you keep scrolling. Hope you get something sorted soon, you’ll feel much happier then. There are a few older threads about CL which seem to be largely positive.

 

[Orangehorse]

Shame you can't get your yard to have a track system, as this gives them more exercise than in a square paddock, keeps them moving and the grass can be regulated.

 

[Upthecreek]

Is moving yards an option? I think it’s going to be a real struggle to manage his weight long-term at the current yard with the lack of options to restrict grazing other than stabling for hours on end. You might need to seriously consider this if he doesn’t stand up physically to a decent amount of work. Looking at the recent photos of Bert and seeing how the grass is growing now, I’d be asking YO if he can go in a rehab paddock. Good doers are so stressful to manage when you can’t give them enough work.

 

[maya2008]

We found Thorn pads no longer laterally stable once the kids were aged 9ish and about 27kg. My children have moved on to Total Contact saddles, but I know they are a controversial topic! I just see them as Thorn pad plus really.

CL pads have pressure tests using a Port Lewis pad underneath on YouTube.

I rate Best Friend bareback pads - we have one for each of us! Stable if you do it up enough and nothing hard to do anyone any harm. On a bony horse I add a pad underneath, or for lots of trotting.

I also would agree about in-hand walks. You could long rein in the arena or just long walks at weekends. I’m having to give my bigger mare an extra feed a day because of the walks she is doing - only 40min but enough to make her drop weight!

 

[SO1]

I was at the yard from 7.30 till 9.15 last night trying to fit muzzles without sucess. I was almost in tears.

I think someone with a lot of knowledge of the thinline muzzle could probably get the fit right but I am struggling. I think in part his head shape. Very wide nose where the noseband is but tiny muzzle and quite short head in length. A triangle shape head. So cob headcollar noseband is bit tight round the nose with the padding and on top hole on the sides. Pony head collar the nose would not fit nose. Pony muzzle does fit well with head collar and can't get hole in the right place for eating. Cob muzzle too big so eat out the sides.

He cannot get hang of the ultimate muzzle.

I wish there was a "muzzle fitter" someone who could come to the yard with lots of different muzzles and find one to fit Bert.

It is very difficult to find a yard with track livery or starvation paddocks in the area.

Everything is massively complicated as I need a lot more assistance than I thought I would when I got Bert due to my parents health and I didn’t think I would need so many vet visits and help with exercise. I need a lot of help although the situation with my parents has improved I have to go to Norfolk two weekends in March mother's day this weekend and for my mum's bday outing on 23 March.

I also need to travel on business and even if I got a job that was less demanding Bert has had so many vet appointments since October that I have lost count and that would have been difficult for any employer to accommodate. The yard staff have dealt with all his vet appointments except 2 and all his farrier appointments.

It is really the vet appointments that are particularly difficult to schedule because time off work is tricky if not booked a long time in advance. Even if work is not massively busy I rarely have a day without a zoom call.

The yard are really good at covering vet appointments and farrier. Also my instructor works there 4 days a week and is small like me and can ride or exercise Bert. I don't know how I would have managed without her and the other yard staff when I my mum was really ill and I was not around much at all for months on end.

The rehab paddocks are not bare paddocks but they are smaller and do have less grass.

If he becomes so unsound long term that it is impossible to exercise him enough to control his weight then I have to look at other yards which are out of the area that do a full livery with track or very little grass.

I managed with Homey but he was good in his muzzle and never on field rest apart from two weeks towards the end of his life when I got Covid and it 40C. He had time when he could not be ridden due to injuries later on in life but was off grass on box rest. I also was able to go the yard nearly every weekend to ride as well as most evenings. He also went on the watertread mill and could be ridden by my instructor.

I think I have been very unlucky with Bert unfortunately in that he has not been sound enough to exercise much combined with the saddle issues, field rest, moving fields etc. He went onto soaked hay and trying with muzzle as soon as he went on field rest but the muzzle fitting has been the problem and then the mud and the new horse and the field move all conspired against me. I am not at the yard this weekend and always easier to try and speak to YO in person. My instructor is going to ride this afternoon so will see how he is with saddle and soundness, he was fine with me at the weekend when I changed to a different numnah. He needs a physio appointment as well and YO is going to organise that as difficult to me to be off work at short notice.

I am going to try and get hold of vet to see if he is ok with Bert being lunged to get some trotting in if saddle problems. When he being lunged 3 times a week in canter and over poles when he had a saddle issue his weight was good. Obviously need to be careful and not over do it as need to gradually increase exercise.

We do have a walker which he could go on once he is shod next week. So he could potentially do a walking session on that plus my instructor exercising him and also me in the evenings if I am not around. Shame about the water treadmill they tried twice a week for 5 weeks but the only way he was able to do that was with sedation. Also this latest bout of lameness the vet believes caused by the wet so going in more water not recommended.

When Homey was on rehab I walked him in hand every evening in hand for a hour and then under saddle for months on end. At the moment I am at the yard most evenings since he was on field rest spending several hours trying to get his muzzle to fit, putting cream on his nose where it has rubbed and putting keretex on hooves to harden them.

I am hoping next week with the shoes and saddle hopefully sorted he can be exercised gradually more possibly twice a day depending on what vet says if not over doing it.

Shame you can't get your yard to have a track system, as this gives them more exercise than in a square paddock, keeps them moving and the grass can be regulated.

 

[w1bbler]

For your saddle issue I would definitely get a christ lammefelle pad & if you feel the need for stirrups use a total contact saddle with it. Even if you only use this combination when your treed saddle needs adjustment you will find them worth their weight in gold
This then helps you with your weight issues as Bert would never have time off for saddle issues. Movement is the best thing for weight.
I have a pony that was registered as borderline ems, who lives out 24/7. In summer she shares a grass track that is gradually strip grazed through the middle. In winter they strip graze a field that has been rested all summer. She is no longer overweight & bloods now come back normal. No muzzle, no soaked hay, just long grass & a vitamin/ mineral supplement in a handful of chaff & lots of exercise.

 

[criso]

Christ stuff is amazing, I have girths and saddlecloths. They are sold as Horse dreams in the UK.

Horse Dream UK

Quality Sheepskin products for your Equestrian needs Horse Dream UK stocks a wide range of Equestrian Sheepskin products. The Horsedream range includes sheepskin Numnahs and Saddle pads, Sheepskin Girths and Equestrian Accessories, Christ Lammfelle Bareback riding pads and Sheepskin Western...

www.horsedream.co.uk

Is long reining an option? No tight circles like lunging and depending on how good he is and your local hacking, you could take him out and about.

 

[Upthecreek]

I was at the yard from 7.30 till 9.15 last night trying to fit muzzles without sucess. I was almost in tears.

I think someone with a lot of knowledge of the thinline muzzle could probably get the fit right but I am struggling. I think in part his head shape. Very wide nose where the noseband is but tiny muzzle and quite short head in length. A triangle shape head. So cob headcollar noseband is bit tight round the nose with the padding and on top hole on the sides. Pony head collar the nose would not fit nose. Pony muzzle does fit well with head collar and can't get hole in the right place for eating. Cob muzzle too big so eat out the sides.

He cannot get hang of the ultimate muzzle.

I wish there was a "muzzle fitter" someone who could come to the yard with lots of different muzzles and find one to fit Bert.

It is very difficult to find a yard with track livery or starvation paddocks in the area.

Everything is massively complicated as I need a lot more assistance than I thought I would when I got Bert due to my parents health and I didn’t think I would need so many vet visits and help with exercise. I need a lot of help although the situation with my parents has improved I have to go to Norfolk two weekends in March mother's day this weekend and for my mum's bday outing on 23 March.

I also need to travel on business and even if I got a job that was less demanding Bert has had so many vet appointments since October that I have lost count and that would have been difficult for any employer to accommodate. The yard staff have dealt with all his vet appointments except 2 and all his farrier appointments.

It is really the vet appointments that are particularly difficult to schedule because time off work is tricky if not booked a long time in advance. Even if work is not massively busy I rarely have a day without a zoom call.

The yard are really good at covering vet appointments and farrier. Also my instructor works there 4 days a week and is small like me and can ride or exercise Bert. I don't know how I would have managed without her and the other yard staff when I my mum was really ill and I was not around much at all for months on end.

The rehab paddocks are not bare paddocks but they are smaller and do have less grass.

If he becomes so unsound long term that it is impossible to exercise him enough to control his weight then I have to look at other yards which are out of the area that do a full livery with track or very little grass.

I managed with Homey but he was good in his muzzle and never on field rest apart from two weeks towards the end of his life when I got Covid and it 40C. He had time when he could not be ridden due to injuries later on in life but was off grass on box rest. I also was able to go the yard nearly every weekend to ride as well as most evenings. He also went on the watertread mill and could be ridden by my instructor.

I think I have been very unlucky with Bert unfortunately in that he has not been sound enough to exercise much combined with the saddle issues, field rest, moving fields etc. He went onto soaked hay and trying with muzzle as soon as he went on field rest but the muzzle fitting has been the problem and then the mud and the new horse and the field move all conspired against me. I am not at the yard this weekend and always easier to try and speak to YO in person. My instructor is going to ride this afternoon so will see how he is with saddle and soundness, he was fine with me at the weekend when I changed to a different numnah. He needs a physio appointment as well and YO is going to organise that as difficult to me to be off work at short notice.

I am going to try and get hold of vet to see if he is ok with Bert being lunged to get some trotting in if saddle problems. When he being lunged 3 times a week in canter and over poles when he had a saddle issue his weight was good. Obviously need to be careful and not over do it as need to gradually increase exercise.

We do have a walker which he could go on once he is shod next week. So he could potentially do a walking session on that plus my instructor exercising him and also me in the evenings if I am not around. Shame about the water treadmill they tried twice a week for 5 weeks but the only way he was able to do that was with sedation. Also this latest bout of lameness the vet believes caused by the wet so going in more water not recommended.

When Homey was on rehab I walked him in hand every evening in hand for a hour and then under saddle for months on end. At the moment I am at the yard most evenings since he was on field rest spending several hours trying to get his muzzle to fit, putting cream on his nose where it has rubbed and putting keretex on hooves to harden them.

I am hoping next week with the shoes and saddle hopefully sorted he can be exercised gradually more possibly twice a day depending on what vet says if not over doing it.

I would put him in a rehab paddock until you either get the muzzle fit problems sorted or are able to start doing some of the things that you have mentioned to help manage his weight. I would not wait to see about all of that before taking some action. Do what you can do right now and take the pressure off yourself a bit.

 

[SO1]

I might have to postpone saddle appointment unless instructor can be there as I need to work as it is the only day for months that we can have an important work meeting on so no longer can have the day off.

 

[SO1]

Christ stuff is amazing, I have girths and saddlecloths. They are sold as Horse dreams in the UK.

Horse Dream UK

Quality Sheepskin products for your Equestrian needs Horse Dream UK stocks a wide range of Equestrian Sheepskin products. The Horsedream range includes sheepskin Numnahs and Saddle pads, Sheepskin Girths and Equestrian Accessories, Christ Lammfelle Bareback riding pads and Sheepskin Western...

www.horsedream.co.uk

Is long reining an option? No tight circles like lunging and depending on how good he is and your local hacking, you could take him out and about.

Not possible as I don't get to the yard till 7.30 so far too dark to hack and until he is shod he is not allowed to do hacking.

Hopefully from next Thursday he can start hacking again as will be shod on Wednesday and then it is really a matter of resolving the saddle issue and seeing what extra work he can do. I think I will look at getting the bareback pad.

 

[SO1]

I would put him in a rehab paddock until you either get the muzzle fit problems sorted or are able to start doing some of the things that you have mentioned to help manage his weight. I would not wait to see about all of that before taking some action. Do what you can do right now and take the pressure off yourself a bit.

He is wearing the flexible filly muzzle which is better than nothing despite eating out the sides. I am going to try and get the best friend one on this week if possible if I can get him used to in the evenings and fitted my slight concern around that is the amount of mud blocking potentially blocking the hole.

It is not alway easy talking to YO unless in person. I noticed a couple of new horses in rehab yesterday who might be using the paddocks. Difficult to see how much grass is in them in the dark.

 

[criso]

Not possible as I don't get to the yard till 7.30 so far too dark to hack and until he is shod he is not allowed to do hacking.

Hopefully from next Thursday he can start hacking again as will be shod on Wednesday and then it is really a matter of resolving the saddle issue and seeing what extra work he can do. I think I will look at getting the bareback pad.

I meant long reining instead of lunging to avoid the tight circling if your vet doesn't want him lunged. Sometimes vets don't want horse walkers or lunging for horses with certain pathologies because of the constant circle but long reining you can do more straight lines

Then as an extra if he is good to also use it on hacking routes if you don't have a saddle as your saddle fitting may be delayed.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Can you have him ridden for you?

 

[SO1]

Can you have him ridden for you?

Yes my instructor normally can ride him Tues/Thurs/Friday and some Saturdays.

She got him in from the field today and he lame again. Video sent to vet who said field rest until he can be shod but because I can't control his grazing I am putting him on box rest. Vet wants him out due to his stifles but the risk of the grass for me is too great.

Vet coming at 7.30am tomorrow to look at him.

 

[SO1]

I have asked YO about rehab livery and paddock and she is full. Two horses have come to rehab that have nothing wrong with them but have no winter turnout so using the paddocks as well as the rehabs. That was probably one of the reasons why one of the long term rehabs moved into Bert's group and herd turnout on Wednesday.

I would put him in a rehab paddock until you either get the muzzle fit problems sorted or are able to start doing some of the things that you have mentioned to help manage his weight. I would not wait to see about all of that before taking some action. Do what you can do right now and take the pressure off yourself a bit.

 

[Upthecreek]

I have asked YO about rehab livery and paddock and she is full. Two horses have come to rehab that have nothing wrong with them but have no winter turnout so using the paddocks as well as the rehabs. That was probably one of the reasons why one of the long term rehabs moved into Bert's group and herd turnout on Wednesday.

As he is lame again and you are putting him on box rest you don’t now need an immediate solution for turnout so hopefully there will be rehab livery space available soon or you have sorted a muzzle that works for him by then. Otherwise he will need very restricted time on grass.

 

[meleeka]

Yes my instructor normally can ride him Tues/Thurs/Friday and some Saturdays.

She got him in from the field today and he lame again. Video sent to vet who said field rest until he can be shod but because I can't control his grazing I am putting him on box rest. Vet wants him out due to his stifles but the risk of the grass for me is too great.

Vet coming at 7.30am tomorrow to look at him.

Well at least that gives you time to sort a muzzle.

 

[SEL]

Yes my instructor normally can ride him Tues/Thurs/Friday and some Saturdays.

She got him in from the field today and he lame again. Video sent to vet who said field rest until he can be shod but because I can't control his grazing I am putting him on box rest. Vet wants him out due to his stifles but the risk of the grass for me is too great.

Vet coming at 7.30am tomorrow to look at him.

Where is he lame? Does the vet think it's hoof related?

 

[SO1]

Where is he lame? Does the vet think it's hoof related?

Instructor rode him thought he was lame. YO sent video to vet. Vet said not surprised and thinks it is wet weather and wanted him on field rest until he can be shod next Wednesday.

I then said I don't want him out again until he has been seen by the vet to make sure it is not laminitis so vet coming tomorrow 7.30 am.

I am not convinced it is due to soft hooves he has not reacted to hoof testers and vet said last time he saw him on 14 Feb that he was sensitive on stones area of yard but fine in the school after he had just over two weeks off. Vet had seen him nearly every week since he went very slightly lame part way though my lesson on 20 January which instructor at first thought was saddle related. He also had wolf teeth removal which ended up taking two attempts so vet has seen him a lot. Farrier when he last saw him said no signs of laminitis but hooves were "washed out" and he would really feel any stones. He went lame just before farrier came and vet wanted farrier to check him before he returned.

I rode him at the weekend and he was absolutely whizzy and really forward and to suddenly go from this to lame is weird. Instructor thought he was not quite right on Friday but YO watched me ride on Saturday and Sunday and he was fine.

 

[SO1]

Well at least that gives you time to sort a muzzle.

Vet really wants him out due to his stiffle issue if he has does not have laminitis. I have said to yard owner that he cannot go out until he has a muzzle that fits him and restricts his grazing. I spent two hours this evening try to adjust and test muzzles. Possibly the flexible filly on the top hole on the head collar which makes the noseband very tight is preventing him eat out of the sides but really difficult to test for long enough in the dark and with the noseband at that hight it is very tight due to the padding to try and stop the rubbing. Homey's best friend have a heart muzzle is fine in that he cannot eat out the sizes but the hole has worn very large so not very restricted and not sure it will stay on his head needs more adjustments which I didn't have time to try as had to be off the yard at 9pm when it closes.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

I agree with GS, feed plain oat straw chaff in large quantities, overnight. They will eat it if they are hungry and it is just as good a protection against developing ulcers as any other forage. I don't use TCZ though, it's too tasty. I use Honeychop or Halleys' plain oat straw chaff.

Hey how much roughly do you feed of the straw chaff if you don’t mind me asking I’m thinking of trying it

 

[SEL]

Vet really wants him out due to his stiffle issue if he has does not have laminitis. I have said to yard owner that he cannot go out until he has a muzzle that fits him and restricts his grazing. I spent two hours this evening try to adjust and test muzzles. Possibly the flexible filly on the top hole on the head collar which makes the noseband very tight is preventing him eat out of the sides but really difficult to test for long enough in the dark and with the noseband at that hight it is very tight due to the padding to try and stop the rubbing. Homey's best friend have a heart muzzle is fine in that he cannot eat out the sizes but the hole has worn very large so not very restricted and not sure it will stay on his head needs more adjustments which I didn't have time to try as had to be off the yard at 9pm when it closes.

I was talking muzzles with a friend who uses the equi central system (so hers are on long grass all the time). She's using dinky muzzles after hers started eating out of the side of the flexible filly. They look cheap enough to trial.

She did say she was using duct tape around the flexible filly.

I hope you get some answers from the vet this morning. If the insurance is running then is it worth x-rays?

 

[Sandstone1]

It sounds like you really need to get to the bottom of what the lameness actually is. Is it lami or something else? Then you need to deal with management of his weight. It does sound as if this yard may not be the best for him. Muzzles are not the only way to control weight and do not suit all horses. They can cause problems with teeth etc too.
I know you can not do it at current yard but there is strip grazing or tracks or grass free turn out.
You do really need to know whats causing the lameness though. A proper diagnosis. I can not think a vet would suggest turnout for a pony with lami.

 

[TheMule]

I'd want a proper lameness work up- nerve blocks, foot x-rays as a minimum, possibly referral for an MRI if that doesn’t give any answers

 

[scats]

Does he have a crest at all? Even a small one?
Polly is slim at the moment, but she developed a crest a few years ago in the summer from a combination of being on rye grass and me taking my eye off the ball (it was the summer we lost Diva). As a result, she has a crest that, despite losing weight everywhere else, never goes away.
I’ll try and get a picture today to show you.
It’s the crest that seems to be the key to us being unable to fully reverse her EMS. The vet saw her in February for her jabs and said she looks incredible- a healthy body weight, but that crest won’t shift. As a result, I have to stay on constant alert for laminitis and imagine I always will.
She had visible ribs this winter, but the crest didn’t budge.

Fortunately she gets on well with the flexible filly muzzle and she’s very buzzy so even a spin on the lunge in trot gives her a decent exercise, buts it’s hard because she cannot canter (combo of PSD and we’ve since had her tested and she has the px gene which explains a LOT about her general behaviour)

For Bert, I think if he was mine, I’d be investigating this lameness now. It’s been grumbling away for long enough to make me think there’s something going on beyond poor feet/wet conditions.
I’d be very wary of a low level soft tissue injury that is slowly getting worse and worse. I’ve been there several times before and you really want to get it early.
I’d be throwing everything at him now to get an answer.

 

[maya2008]

Just buy a bucket muzzle for now - cob size- sew padding round the top, job done. I think the shires ones even come with fur round the top now! No need for all this time wasted with muzzles when you could be spending it doing things with the pony, even if that’s just playing in-hand in the school.

Less than £25 for an easy life. We use the Hy ones - add fur, check teeth line up with hole, last all summer with no adjustment needed, no worry about headcollars etc. If he rubs it off, wind twine round the Velcro to stop him peeling it off quite so easily.

 

[ester]

I was talking muzzles with a friend who uses the equi central system (so hers are on long grass all the time). She's using dinky muzzles after hers started eating out of the side of the flexible filly. They look cheap enough to trial.

She did say she was using duct tape around the flexible filly.

I hope you get some answers from the vet this morning. If the insurance is running then is it worth x-rays?

and if he's already eating out the side he'll be fine working out how to eat with a dinky.

 

[MuddyMonster]

My New Forest pony got rubbed by, ate out the side and then absolutely destroyed the Flexible Filly muzzles.

Just because they are advertised as the 'best' - inverted comma's very much meant - it doesn't mean they are the best for every horse.

My NF has done really well with Dinky muzzles, which I wasn't expecting much success with.

The Shires one rubbed him far less as it's cutaway under the chin, he just learnt to break the rubber but he's a thug on a level I've not seen before with anything that slows him down. He's still the only pony I know that can eat through the really stiff Trickle Net type nets

Is it possible it's an abcess? If he's barefoot I find they don't tend to present with an abscess in the same dramatic say shod horse's do.

Hopefully, the vet help you get some answers (I'd be asking for x-ray's tomorrow). Native ponies in the spring can be very difficult, especially if you can't exercise, so you have my sympathies.

Keep your chin up X

 

[ester]

I think it’s useful to have more than one brand anyway as if they do rub a bit its then in different spots. All tend to need a bit more fluff adding too. I wouldn’t be persisting with the FF if it’s not working despite faffing when there’s lots of other options

 

[Sandstone1]

If it is possibly lami I do not think I would want to be nailing shoes on to sensitive feet.