Laminitis with no improvement

[PSD]

My mare came down with laminitis just before the new year. My vet suggested it was a torn DDFT however she worsened gradually and the vet finally agreed to x ray her 2 weeks later. They found she had slight rotation in both fronts but enough toe to take off to correct this, the farrier was contacted with the x rays and the heartbar shoes went on. She seemed a lot worse after they were fitted so they were changed to aluminium heartbars and she was re x rays before these went on. Within 2 weeks she had rotated further and they vet and farrier diagnosed her with laminitis in her back feet. They have not yet managed to x ray her backs due to the machine being broke but she has heartbars fitted at the back just for some support. Farrier has suggested keeping her bed quite wet to help her feet expand and aid healing, which I’ve done. She is on 30 paracetamol a day, 500ml (I think - 500 on the syringe) metacam and now 1.5 sedalin a day to keep her heart rate down as it was double what it should be. She can barely move, she’s hardly eating and just really fed up.
Has anyone any experience with anything like this? The vets advised me to walk her if she will walk (which she won’t) but it’s bothering me how much she’s struggling with the amount of pain relief she’s on and with how long it’s been. She can’t even move over in the stable, her back legs are actually at a point where they look like they’re about to buckle any moment. I just feel like there’s something we’re missing, she doesn’t seem to be improving whatsoever, or is this just how lami goes? I do have her x ray photos and videos of her moving (or lack of) too.
Appreciate any comments.

 

[WandaMare]

What is she currently getting foodwise? I had a laminitic who was really difficult to stabilise and even slight tweaks to his diet made a huge difference.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Have you had the horse tested for cushings and ems?

I am also surprised they put shoes on such an uncomfortable horse for a start, the feet should have been fitted with frog supports and my horse rapidly went downhill with heart bar shoes when she had laminitis I would never ever have them on again, this is going to sound harsh but if she is as bad as you say I would seriously consider calling it a day she is on a lot of pain relief and still very sore, sometimes you can't get the laminitis under control no matter what, I am sorry I know exactly how you feel I have had 2 horses with laminitis it's awful to see them like it.

I think hearing what your vets have advised I would be getting a second opinion I certainly don't think walking her around is a good idea.

 

[vmac66]

My mare had lami in her front feet last May. Farrier immediately put frog supports on which made a, huge difference. Followed all the laminitis stuff ie deep bed box rest etc. She was sound within 10 days with very little or no rotation. I'm surprised your farrier put shoes on her, mine took mares shoes off.
Sorry to say but I agree with Pinkyboots about calling it a day. Sometimes they just don't get over it no matter what you do. It's an awful disease.

 

[PSD]

Hi
Yes tested for EMS and cushings and both fine. The vets are actually quite baffled by her as if literally came on overnight after being ridden. My farrier was reluctant to put heartbars on (I swapped when the first didn’t even question it) which is why he’s put the aluminium ones on. Apparently at this point frog supports won’t be beneficial (I’m no expert I just follow the advice). Vet has only suggested walking her when she becomes more comfortable to enable blood flow to the feet to help her heal. She’s been this way for nearly 3 months with absolutely no sign of improvement however the vet is still hopeful she can come right from it. She’s fed on hay and a tiny handful of unmollassed chaff to give her the paracetamol. I just have this awful feeling she won’t come right but at what point do I decide this? I’ve owned her for 10 years now she’s part of the family but I genuinely don’t know what else there is left to do. I guess I’m not really looking for answers really, I don’t really know what I’m expecting from posting

 

[Equi]

Are you soaking the hay?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

If the "machine is broken" which presumably is the reason she hasn't had another x-ray on her hinds then I really would have expected your vet to have asked another colleague in another practice OR offered you the choice to take your horse to an equine hospital somewhere to have these very necessary x-rays done.

That said......... you don't say how old your mare is?? Have you had any bloods taken??

I have a friend who tried Simple Systems feed for her mare, backed up with vet and farrier support (she had to change both vet AND farriers to get the right team), and her mare pulled through against all the odds, without shoes. She had to be kept on what was literally a "pocket handkerchief sized" patch of grass - her owner leccy-fenced her off into a space which was about the size of about two loose-boxes, and that was all! It wasn't easy, but she as an equine professional herself managed to pull her mare through.

But, but, not everyone has the benefit of professional expertise or access to the right professionals, and what my gut reaction was, reading your post OP, was that your mare is in considerable pain and distress and has been so over a considerable time.

May I just suggest, as gently as possible, that you may need to be prepared to let her go........... she's in pain, and by the sounds of it can hardly move, and if she were my mare I know what my decision would be......

So sorry I can't be more positive; laminitis is a horrible cruel condition and I've lost a horse to it, so know what you will be going through.

 

[PSD]

No she won’t eat soaked hay unfortunately and having had ulcers before I can’t risk her not eating. Despite that though she isn’t really eating now anyway

 

[PSD]

If the "machine is broken" which presumably is the reason she hasn't had another x-ray on her hinds then I really would have expected your vet to have asked another colleague in another practice OR offered you the choice to take your horse to an equine hospital somewhere to have these very necessary x-rays done.

That said......... you don't say how old your mare is?? Have you had any bloods taken??

I have a friend who tried Simple Systems feed for her mare, backed up with vet and farrier support (she had to change both vet AND farriers to get the right team), and her mare pulled through against all the odds, without shoes. She had to be kept on what was literally a "pocket handkerchief sized" patch of grass - her owner leccy-fenced her off into a space which was about the size of about two loose-boxes, and that was all! It wasn't easy, but she as an equine professional herself managed to pull her mare through.

But, but, not everyone has the benefit of professional expertise or access to the right professionals, and what my gut reaction was, reading your post OP, was that your mare is in considerable pain and distress and has been so over a considerable time.

May I just suggest, as gently as possible, that you may need to be prepared to let her go........... she's in pain, and by the sounds of it can hardly move, and if she were my mare I know what my decision would be......

So sorry I can't be more positive; laminitis is a horrible cruel condition and I've lost a horse to it, so know what you will be going through.

yes they are back out early next week to x ray all 4 as the time has come to re x ray her fronts. She can’t travel anywhere to get to horsey hospital she’s that bad, I feel like the time is coming for me to make a decision but I just can’t face it. She’s only 11 so quite young

 

[Equi]

How long are you soaking the hay for and are you letting it dry out first ?
Sorry if these seem silly qu but good Unsoaked hay could be the reason she’s not improving.

 

[PSD]

How long are you soaking the hay for and are you letting it dry out first ?
Sorry if these seem silly qu but good I soaked hay could be the reason she’s not improving.

She won’t eat it soaked so it’s dry

 

[Equi]

I ask because many won’t eat it if it’s soaked too long as it ferments hence asking how long you soaked for.

 

[Pinkvboots]

No she won’t eat soaked hay unfortunately and having had ulcers before I can’t risk her not eating. Despite that though she isn’t really eating now anyway

Mine won't eat hay that is soaked for hours even 10 minutes will get some of the sugar out worth a try, I would seriously consider getting a different vet one that is familiar with laminitis, sedalin can help with blood flow to the feet as it increases circulation.

 

[PSD]

Mine won't eat hay that is soaked for hours even 10 minutes will get some of the sugar out worth a try, I would seriously consider getting a different vet one that is familiar with laminitis, sedalin can help with blood flow to the feet as it increases circulation.

yeah the vet prescribed the sedalin yesterday more to help lower her heart rate as it was through the roof. I just don’t know what more to do, the vet has just said to give her time but I can’t help but think this is because it’s an insurance claim? I’d like to think not

 

[SpringArising]

If she's been like this for three months with no improvement I really think you should have her PTS asap. Laminitis is so painful for them and it sounds like she's really, really suffering.

 

[WandaMare]

The only way I could stabilise my pony's laminitis was to soak the hay for 12 hours, if I soaked for 1 hour, the laminitis kept going. He didn't like soaked hay at all but when it was all he could have, he nibbled enough of it to keep him going. It sounds as though your mares laminitis is rumbling on because there is still too much sugar in the hay. Mine also had metformin which helped him too. Once the diet is right the laminitis suddenly stops and they can become comfortable quite quickly. This is probably why your vet is persevering because he's seen it happen before. I had lots of times where I felt it was best to call it a day with mine, its horrible to see them like that but you just have to get the sugar completely out of the diet so that the inflammation in the laminae reduces and with it the pressure which is causing all the pain.

 

[Pinkvboots]

yeah the vet prescribed the sedalin yesterday more to help lower her heart rate as it was through the roof. I just don’t know what more to do, the vet has just said to give her time but I can’t help but think this is because it’s an insurance claim? I’d like to think not

Her heart rate is through the roof because of the pain I think over 3 months is a very long time with no improvement, I am sorry but I think I would let her go, I am shocked by what your vet has said about keeping her going

 

[meleeka]

You’ve reached the point where you are considering pts so I think I’d have to try everything then make a decision. Soak hay for the minimum required to reduce sugar or replace some of that with the lowest calorie chaff you can find. Test again for Cushings, not the standard test but a TRH test which is more accurate. It’s not unusual to get false negatives with the normal one. I’d also be getting a second opinion, even if you only end up with xrays to tell you what’s going on. How thick is her bed? It needs to be shavings not straw and 12 inches thick for total support, all the way to the door. Has she had shoes on for 12 weeks? That’s an awfully long time to go without a trim or xrays.

It does sound very much like there’s a metabolic cause for it and I hope you find it before it’s too late x

 

[be positive]

yeah the vet prescribed the sedalin yesterday more to help lower her heart rate as it was through the roof. I just don’t know what more to do, the vet has just said to give her time but I can’t help but think this is because it’s an insurance claim? I’d like to think not

I would hope not but my farrier refused to continue to shoe one once because he felt it should be pts, the vet continued to treat it until the 12 months were up and it was then pts having made no progress the whole time, farrier never works with that vet now.

When one of mine had laminitis, due mainly to an abscess in the other foot, I was struggling to get the weight off him so the vet prescribed metformin for a month which seemed to kick start his metabolism, the weight came off and he generally became more comfortable, when they are as bad as yours even if tests say otherwise I would want to try metformin and or prascend just in case they work, it is a long while with no improvement, mine was at least moving about fairly easily, I think your vet either needs to come up with something new, refer for a second opinion or pts.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

yes they are back out early next week to x ray all 4 as the time has come to re x ray her fronts. She can’t travel anywhere to get to horsey hospital she’s that bad, I feel like the time is coming for me to make a decision but I just can’t face it. She’s only 11 so quite young

Soohh sorry OP; the only thing I would suggest you do is get a second opinion before you make any "decision".

Am not trying to give you false hope here, but at least then if you do have to make a difficult choice you've at least got the knowledge that you did your very very best.

Have been where you're at, its heartbreaking, I know.........

 

[tallyho!]

Oh poor girl. Poor you! You must be beside yourself have a big hug from me. That must be so painful for a horse not to want to eat... 3 months is far too long. Second opinion or PTS. Frankly I feel a bit shocked at vet and farrier........ times have moved on and lami should be shod with imprints with frog supports... Or booted or barefoot. Hate it when vets don't move with the times. Mag Ox not suggested? This can help massively and even if the horse will not eat soaked hay you must get the weight off somehow.

 

[PSD]

You’ve reached the point where you are considering pts so I think I’d have to try everything then make a decision. Soak hay for the minimum required to reduce sugar or replace some of that with the lowest calorie chaff you can find. Test again for Cushings, not the standard test but a TRH test which is more accurate. It’s not unusual to get false negatives with the normal one. I’d also be getting a second opinion, even if you only end up with xrays to tell you what’s going on. How thick is her bed? It needs to be shavings not straw and 12 inches thick for total support, all the way to the door. Has she had shoes on for 12 weeks? That’s an awfully long time to go without a trim or xrays.

It does sound very much like there’s a metabolic cause for it and I hope you find it before it’s too late x

she’s on a really deep shavings bed, she’s had 2 sets of heartbars on now and due her third next week. We’ve done the TRH test and it was clear, I’ll try soaking her hay again.

tonight she was quite a lot worse, she isn’t overweight in fact she’s lost quite a lot since being poorly. She’s been stood in the same spot all day and not even touched her net that’s been in since 5.30am. The farrier asked me to lift her feet to make sure there wasn’t too much bed packing in and she almost fell down. I feel like this is her giving up now, I have never ever seen her like this before and for the amount of pain relief she is on I’m really quite shocked and how badly she’s coping

 

[PSD]

Her heart rate is through the roof because of the pain I think over 3 months is a very long time with no improvement, I am sorry but I think I would let her go, I am shocked by what your vet has said about keeping her going

it is a long time especially with the pain relief she is on. If anything she is getting worse

 

[TheMule]

I'm sorry but I would have a vet visit tonight. She sounds in total agony and, at the very least, she needs significantly more pain relief

 

[vmac66]

It's so hard to deal with laminitis. I fed my mare 1kg nets of soaked hay every few hours and a, bigger net at night. Total Hay and feed was 1.5 percent of her body weight. It was very hard seeing her permanently hungry, she would go a few hours, with nothing to eat. I know your horse has had ulcers but they are treatable, the laminitis should be the priority and getting the weight of. I only kept up the feeding regime for 2 weeks and enlisted people to help putting nets in. The weight did come off. She has lost a, total of 100kg in the last ten months and is going into spring skinny.

 

[vmac66]

Sorry didn't see your post about not being overweight.

 

[PSD]

I'm sorry but I would have a vet visit tonight. She sounds in total agony and, at the very least, she needs significantly more pain relief

ive has a chat with the vet just now and he said because they only upped her meds Wednesday they’d like to give her the weekend to let them fully get in her system. I’ve told them she’s not going to miraculously be pain free in 2 days though realistically

 

[Equi]

Being off her food entirely since this morning would be really bothersome for me. I’m sorry this is so awful for you I can’t even imagine the heartbreak but You really may need to think about getting the vet out tonight to see her and give advice.

 

[Equi]

We posted at the same time. I dunno. You seem to know yourself this could be wishful thinking re the meds kicking in.

 

[Pinkvboots]

she’s on a really deep shavings bed, she’s had 2 sets of heartbars on now and due her third next week. We’ve done the TRH test and it was clear, I’ll try soaking her hay again.

tonight she was quite a lot worse, she isn’t overweight in fact she’s lost quite a lot since being poorly. She’s been stood in the same spot all day and not even touched her net that’s been in since 5.30am. The farrier asked me to lift her feet to make sure there wasn’t too much bed packing in and she almost fell down. I feel like this is her giving up now, I have never ever seen her like this before and for the amount of pain relief she is on I’m really quite shocked and how badly she’s coping

I can't believe they are hammering shoes on this horse it must be agony for her, shoes only go on when the horse is more or less sound not at the start of a laminitic episode.