Laminitis with no improvement

[ester]

If I wasn't happy with what my vets said I'd be calling someone else to end her suffering TBH. I'd strongly suspect she has something systemic going on underlying this from what you have said.

The only shoes I would have ever had put on would be imprints, preferably by andrew but it seems past that stage now.

 

[Pinkvboots]

How much sedalin has she had today ?

 

[WandaMare]

ive has a chat with the vet just now and he said because they only upped her meds Wednesday they’d like to give her the weekend to let them fully get in her system. I’ve told them she’s not going to miraculously be pain free in 2 days though realistically

It might be the meds which have reduced her appetite, sedalin can do this

 

[be positive]

ive has a chat with the vet just now and he said because they only upped her meds Wednesday they’d like to give her the weekend to let them fully get in her system. I’ve told them she’s not going to miraculously be pain free in 2 days though realistically

They have had weeks to get the meds right, there should already be enough in her that a top up makes her better not worse, I would be concerned that the sedalin is shutting her down and that if you do not get the vet this evening tomorrow may be too late, she is at risk of a serious colic which along with the laminitis does not bode well, I think the vet is either on a different planet or is of the life must be preserved at any cost view if he thinks this will improve over the next 24 hours.

 

[PSD]

How much sedalin has she had today ?

she’s had 1.5 (?) that’s what I’ve been told to give her a day.

They have had weeks to get the meds right, there should already be enough in her that a top up makes her better not worse, I would be concerned that the sedalin is shutting her down and that if you do not get the vet this evening tomorrow may be too late, she is at risk of a serious colic which along with the laminitis does not bode well, I think the vet is either on a different planet or is of the life must be preserved at any cost view if he thinks this will improve over the next 24 hours.

it’s funny you say that as I was talking about this earlier. One of the girls on the yard told me to watch her for colic because of the sedalin however with her being on a low dose would it still be the same concerns?

 

[be positive]

she’s had 1.5 (?) that’s what I’ve been told to give her a day.



it’s funny you say that as I was talking about this earlier. One of the girls on the yard told me to watch her for colic because of the sedalin however with her being on a low dose would it still be the same concerns?

Yes as it will slow down her guts, which it can especially if she is not eating to keep them moving, I would definitely be concerned about colic, it may have its uses but it is not without risk.

 

[Pinkvboots]

That's not really much my big horse had that twice a day, I just thought it may have knocked her out, I think I would be making a serious decision soon, does no one else on your yard use a vet they trust and you could speak to, I feel though your rapidly running out if time I wouldn't want to leave a horse that has not even moved or eaten all day, as sad as it is it's just not fair it just sounds like it's all a bit too late

 

[ester]

I have asked Leo to come and comment when she is home.
As I know her vets wanted her to keep going with Frankie and that she wouldn't do the same again.
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/laminitis-getting-me-down.769986/#post-13885785

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I am sorry but I would be calling it a day now. And I wouldn't use that vet again. I really don't understand why the vet insists on dragging this on.

 

[meleeka]

I can't believe they are hammering shoes on this horse it must be agony for her, shoes only go on when the horse is more or less sound not at the start of a laminitic episode.

Mine had glue on shoes but that was before imprints were invented.

 

[be positive]

I have asked Leo to come and comment when she is home.
As I know her vets wanted her to keep going with Frankie and that she wouldn't do the same again.
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/laminitis-getting-me-down.769986/#post-13885785

They at least tried different things even if it was a lost cause, this pony pony seems to have had very little done, has shown no improvement and the vet has just continued along a path which hasn't even managed to get xrays done of the hinds, his machine may be broken but I would hope my vets could borrow one in an emergency, I would be knocking on doors myself if I had to.

 

[ester]

True.

and if I my vet couldn't borrow I'd find someone else to come (nearly did previously just due to quality of images between portable machines).

 

[Leo Walker]

Ok, so this probably isnt what you want to hear, but I think you need to. Not all horses recover from laminitis. Once you have sinking then just over 30% make it. Thats 70% that dont.

My boy came down with it in winter. We could find no underlying cause. He was only 6. I sent him to a rehab yard in a last ditch attempt to save him. In the beginning, he was xrayed every week or so, and only trimmed to xray while the vet was there to administer serious pain relief. I almost called time then and looking back I should have. He was in agony just being trimmed, so putting shoes on would have been unbearable. Hindsight is an amazing if useless thing!

I fought for him for several months as in himself he was quite bright and the vets kept saying they had saved them in worst states than him. I eventually made the decision to PTS when xrays showed that the right pedal bone had sunk further and was resting on his sole. Ironically at that point he certainly didnt look the as bad as he had done previously. the vet was still saying he could be saved and that if the pedal bone came out from his sole he would do x, y and z to try and fix it. That was a step too far for me. I could not allow a horse in my care to have a bone protruding from its foot, no matter what the vets said.

You NEED xrays and you need them NOW. You need to make sure the underlying cause is found. If no underlying cause is found, or if the sinking and rotation has worsened then have your horse PTS and save them the misery and suffering they are currently experiencing.

I have people around me now to remind me of this if it ever happens again. My stance will now be firm. If there is noticeable sinking and no underlying cause is found then the horse will be PTS. I wont allow myself to get into the situation I was in with Frankie. I loved him dearly and thought if I just tried really hard I could save him, but in the end all that happened is he suffered.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Mine had glue on shoes but that was before imprints were invented.

They were used a lot with laminitis my farrier said he used glue on shoes.

 

[holeymoley]

Get the shoes off. The horse needs supports and pads until she’s out the acute phase then you can start to change the trim to align and use shoes if need be.

 

[holeymoley]

What exactly is she being fed? What forage is she on? I’m surprised hthat there’s nothing underlying.

 

[deepsoftheavy]

Im sorry but having fought for 18 months to save one with laminitis (only to PTS in the end) Im remembering the heartbreak and extreme pain. It sounds to me that further sinking or rotation is now happening. If you cant manage the pain there really is only one thing to do 3 months with further deterioration despite treatment is too long.

 

[PSD]

Thank you all so much for your comments I really do appreciate them.

so I called at the yard around 30 minutes ago and she was down, I left her at 4pm and she hasn’t touched her nets and has only pooed once. I’ve called the vet and they’ve advised I go back in about an hour to check her again as when I let she was up and munching. I feel so frustrated as I just don’t know what’s going on with her, I’ve also told them that they need to come back and re x ray her as I fear the worst really. I’ll attached photos of her x rays, the first ones then the most recent and you can see the changes in her foot. I apologise for their poor quality but I’m not very familiar with x rays and such so I don’t really know what I’m looking at but even I can see there’s changes.

 

[ester]

Has the vet actually mentioned sinking with regards to those xrays?

I do get that it's frustrating and that you aren't really being given sufficient info by your professionals to make an informed decision in this horse's best interests so that you can be comfortable with the decision you make.

I do think it is always important to remember that a horse in pain doesn't know it is going through any sort of rehabiliation, and that it might feel better in 6 months time. There are of course degrees, there are some people who have treated recumbent laminitics for months and think it's ok because they were better in the end, I am not one of those people.

 

[PSD]

Has the vet actually mentioned sinking with regards to those xrays?

the only thing I have been told is she has slight rotation

 

[ester]

sorry my edit took rather longer to write than I anticipated! I'd be interested in other's opinions and obviously there are no markers on those hooves. I keep changing my mind between the 2 dates.
Have they actually measured the degrees of rotation for you too?

 

[PSD]

sorry my edit took rather longer to write than I anticipated! I'd be interested in other's opinions and obviously there are no markers on those hooves. I keep changing my mind between the 2 dates.
Have they actually measured the degrees of rotation for you too?

not as far as I’m aware, if they have them I haven’t been informed. I just feel like I’m getting a half arsed service but with us going through insurance I’m not sure I can switch vets at this stage

 

[ester]

'guessing' the amount of change in a case like yours is pretty unacceptable TBH.
Of course you can switch vets at any stage, insurance or not, people do it plenty.

 

[splashgirl45]

i am so sorry that you are going through this, BUT quality of life is paramount and your horse has had no quality of life for 3 months, she is in pain and this is not being controlled by meds, in your shoes i would have PTS already....sorry to be blunt but you must stand up for your horse and insist the vet does more to relieve her pain and not allow this to go on any longer..

 

[be positive]

I think the ones dated 26th show more rotation although they are not great images without any markers to guide, are they different shoes and how long have they been on?? it is hard to judge but to me they look a bit short at the heel, my pony was in heartbars for 24 hours, the farrier came back and took them off as he was more sore, we kept him barefoot, he was only showing some rotation in one front, the other had a very nasty abscess that took months to resolve, he was trimmed at least once a week to keep his toes back something that would have been impossible in shoes.

Your insurance co will have no issues with you changing vets especially if it allows you to be better informed and have the correct treatment.

 

[meleeka]

not as far as I’m aware, if they have them I haven’t been informed. I just feel like I’m getting a half arsed service but with us going through insurance I’m not sure I can switch vets at this stage

Yes you can. Your current vets should forward the xrays so they won’t have to start all over.

I’m no expert but I will say that the pony I had was far worse by xrays but wasn’t In as much pain. There’s something going on here that could do with a fresh pair of eyes to work out.

 

[PSD]

I think the ones dated 26th show more rotation although they are not great images without any markers to guide, are they different shoes and how long have they been on?? it is hard to judge but to me they look a bit short at the heel, my pony was in heartbars for 24 hours, the farrier came back and took them off as he was more sore, we kept him barefoot, he was only showing some rotation in one front, the other had a very nasty abscess that took months to resolve, he was trimmed at least once a week to keep his toes back something that would have been impossible in shoes.

Your insurance co will have no issues with you changing vets especially if it allows you to be better informed and have the correct treatment.

so the first x rays were just before her heartbars were fitted. The farrier has apparently lifted her heel and shortened her toe as she has very flat/thin soles. I feel really out of my depth with this as I’m trusting the two professionals and feel like the vet isn’t really giving me anything.

initially my vet said it was a tendon injury and to walk her out and even rode her through it. I switched vets but stayed with the same practice only because I wasn’t sure if I could swap vets part way through a claim

 

[Petalpoos]

So sorry for what you are going through but it sounds like your horse is going through far worse. Surely it is time to call it a day? Even if there is a chance that she might ever get through this and ever be sound again, I am not sure it can be worth more than 3 months of pain and a total lack of quality of life. Sorry to be blunt, but sometimes we can get too close and don't really see what is happening. What would you be advising if this was someone else explaining this to you about their horse?

 

[PSD]

So sorry for what you are going through but it sounds like your horse is going through far worse. Surely it is time to call it a day? Even if there is a chance that she might ever get through this and ever be sound again, I am not sure it can be worth more than 3 months of pain and a total lack of quality of life. Sorry to be blunt, but sometimes we can get too close and don't really see what is happening. What would you be advising if this was someone else explaining this to you about their horse?

no need to apologise for being blunt I completely understand your point of view. I was speaking with a friend today about the recovery side of things, if she does come right from it then what quality of life is she going to actually have? It’s so much harder when it’s your own though

 

[be positive]

So they have been on about 5 weeks? that they are on at all is questionable and if they have any chance of helping they need to be redone every 4 weeks ideally but to me she sounds in too much pain to have 4 shoes done, I have dealt with a few laminitics over the years and all have become comfortable very quickly, apart from the one I mentioned earlier, on the right meds, a decent bed and a good farrier.
I think your vets have let you, and the horse, down from the very start, not uncommon they are not infallible, despite at times thinking they are, I think you need to call in the morning, if there is a senior partner you can speak to do so, get whoever is available to come out and be prepared to call it a day, they should accept your decision if there is nothing they can do to make her far more comfortable it is not fair to keep her going barely able to stand, looking at her long term future, and your commitment as the owner must also be a consideration, mine became a real challenge to keep weight off, keep in a restricted area, he took up so much time, caused a lot of stress, had a few more years but in the end I called it a day when he was teetering on the edge again after yet another day in the wrong field having jumped out to get to more grass, he had fun but I was spending most of my time worrying about what he was up to.