figgy
Well-Known Member
Hi I'm sorry to hear about your horse....I'm in your boat at the min, my 5 year old horse went down with lami a week ago, this is my first time dealing with it.
I wish you luck huni xx
I wish you luck huni xx
Laminitis :-(
- Thread starter RubysGold
- Start date
atropa
Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear this OP, how awful and it must be so stressful for you with her not eating.
No advice I'm afraid as I've had no experience of lami myself but I do know someone who's pony was so bad with it he actually had to stay in horsepital for several months. It was a long road but he has now made an excellent recovery and is back in work.
Hoping your mare picks up soon.
No advice I'm afraid as I've had no experience of lami myself but I do know someone who's pony was so bad with it he actually had to stay in horsepital for several months. It was a long road but he has now made an excellent recovery and is back in work.
Hoping your mare picks up soon.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Ruby this is very tempting and lami safe http://www.dodsonandhorrellpetfood.co.uk/horse-feed/fibergy
ester
Not slacking multitasking
It contains cane molasses I would be careful with it.
_HP_
Well-Known Member
Horsehage HighFibre is suitable for laminitics..
http://www.horsehageforage.co.uk/WP/?page_id=108
I've had several Laminitics...all have come good.
Now you know what is likely to be driving the Laminitis ie Cushing's, you should be able to sort him.
Do have a look at the Facebook page recommended earlier or the link to The laminitis Site....I know there is tons of conflicting info all over (including from vets) but these are very up to date on all the latest info .
http://www.horsehageforage.co.uk/WP/?page_id=108
I've had several Laminitics...all have come good.
Now you know what is likely to be driving the Laminitis ie Cushing's, you should be able to sort him.
Do have a look at the Facebook page recommended earlier or the link to The laminitis Site....I know there is tons of conflicting info all over (including from vets) but these are very up to date on all the latest info .
ester
Not slacking multitasking
^ That is what I would feed.
Has she started the prascend? If so one of the side effect is depression which may be affecting her eating, have a chat with your vet
.
Has she started the prascend? If so one of the side effect is depression which may be affecting her eating, have a chat with your vet
.
RubysGold
Well-Known Member
Ester she had her first one today. (I hope! She takes mouthfuls of hard feed and slops it all over the place!!) and she stopped eating a few days ago so it's not that.
Horsehage is the last thing I expected to see recommended, isn't that haylage?
What is cane molasses, I can't see it mentioned on the fibergy page
Horsehage is the last thing I expected to see recommended, isn't that haylage?
What is cane molasses, I can't see it mentioned on the fibergy page
PollyP99
Well-Known Member
Is she on medication for cushings now? This makes them lose appetite I believe, my stable neighbour has this from time to time. What about a hay replacer like fast fibre? Can she have that, that way it's wet and get fibre into her, she may not go for that either though I guess, I put mint in mine to make it more palatable and it's marked as lami friendly (I know that doesn't always mean it is).
RubysGold
Well-Known Member
She has a small feed of fast fibre and hifi lite for her bute and her cushings treatment. She absolutely loves it!
Looking online, sounds like fast fibre could be safe to feed more of.
She will go straight to her net of dry hay (though only for 5 or so minutes) so I don't know whether she is being fussy, or depressed or whether she doesn't feel hungry because she isn't doing anything.
Looking online, sounds like fast fibre could be safe to feed more of.
She will go straight to her net of dry hay (though only for 5 or so minutes) so I don't know whether she is being fussy, or depressed or whether she doesn't feel hungry because she isn't doing anything.
spookypony
Well-Known Member
All the best for a quick and complete recovery, and for the Cushing's to get under control! I echo those who suggest investigating alternatives to shoeing in this case. However, you will need support from people experienced with managing such problems without nailed-on shoes, and knowing which person to trust can be very difficult. I feel for you.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The molasses is mentioned on the ingredients list if you open the pdf that is on that page. I'd try her on fast fibre or if you can get it agrobs gneissleicht (sp?!) would be good. Yes the horsehage is haylage but the blue one is specifically made for laminitics so is OK to feed. I'm very fussy but I would feed it
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Yes I know but it is safe for laminitics my mare was on it no problem but my mare. If you looked at the bag you see the laminitis logo on it.
I had 2 1/2 years looking after my mare of a lifetime with laminitis right thought to rotation - imprint shoes etc.
We tried my mare on Marksway forage and she got a flare up again
RG was looking for a hay replacer and one which is ok for laminitics which Fibergy is both.
RG I can take photo of the logo if you want as I have a bag of it as it is all i feed to mine
Took me a long time and many hours of research when I went through Lami with my mare, got lots of advice from people. I put all that info and the links here under l http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/l.html.
What works for one does not work for others as I clearly found out. What works for one does not work for another.
Sometimes during laminitis they get secondary problems so allot of feeding and types of feed. For example my mare Laminitis let to liver issues and edemas so fast fiibre was a nono.
Ruby I suggest you talk to Dodson and Horrel with a feed check fir your mare or any other merchant so they can Taylor talk you through.
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_HP_
Well-Known Member
Horse have is haylage yes....but they have one that is suitable for laminitics....it is very low in sugar
http://www.horsehageforage.co.uk/WP/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/FeedWithConfidence.jpg
Re the Pergolide/prascend.....current advice is that you introduce it slowly starting at a quarter tablet and increase over a few days. This helps avoid side effects.
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ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Really don't like that we only have 15 minutes to edit out messages on here.
I also used Fouderguard for my mare http://www.founderguard.uk.com/images/D532 - Founderguard Dl 3b.pdf, sadly that is not longer available.
It is very hard self helping other posters as what works for one horse does not work for another. I will only say what worked for my mare as it would be foolhardy to try say it would work on your mare RG.
My mare had Bedmax as her bedding nice and like and comfy and springy, I brought one of these
http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/ I brought a wire basket shelves form Homebase as you see in picture where a section hay fitted perfectly, and two metal rods to put basket on to drain water back to bath all in picture.
I had a hay roster in there working right to left different sections at different time soaking, when one out drained and rinsed through a new one in. Worked really well and everyone knew which one to use as she was on hay throughout the day, she was on Founderguard, Fibergy, and some nuts recommended by D&H. Fornular4feet too to help the abscess grow down, her foot also grew wonky a bit but I had good farriers for the imprint shoes, prior to that foam pads. This link and others are on the website above
http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis
and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOMDzlLKtP0&feature=related
It is all from my experience and others and links recommended by other H&H posters
No carrots no treats
My donkey had cushings (I still have her Prascend) she stopped eating for a while but her bloods came way down after a while on it
http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis covers cushings too.
http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/c.html where H&H members write on Cushings
Also Chaste Berry is good for those with cushings
http://thenaturallyhealthyhorse.com/chaste-tree-berry-horses/
I also used Fouderguard for my mare http://www.founderguard.uk.com/images/D532 - Founderguard Dl 3b.pdf, sadly that is not longer available.
It is very hard self helping other posters as what works for one horse does not work for another. I will only say what worked for my mare as it would be foolhardy to try say it would work on your mare RG.
My mare had Bedmax as her bedding nice and like and comfy and springy, I brought one of these
http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/ I brought a wire basket shelves form Homebase as you see in picture where a section hay fitted perfectly, and two metal rods to put basket on to drain water back to bath all in picture.
I had a hay roster in there working right to left different sections at different time soaking, when one out drained and rinsed through a new one in. Worked really well and everyone knew which one to use as she was on hay throughout the day, she was on Founderguard, Fibergy, and some nuts recommended by D&H. Fornular4feet too to help the abscess grow down, her foot also grew wonky a bit but I had good farriers for the imprint shoes, prior to that foam pads. This link and others are on the website above
http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis
and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOMDzlLKtP0&feature=related
It is all from my experience and others and links recommended by other H&H posters
No carrots no treats
My donkey had cushings (I still have her Prascend) she stopped eating for a while but her bloods came way down after a while on it
http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis covers cushings too.
http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/c.html where H&H members write on Cushings
Also Chaste Berry is good for those with cushings
http://thenaturallyhealthyhorse.com/chaste-tree-berry-horses/
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_HP_
Well-Known Member
Keep it simple....
Shes on prascend now so that should start to control her ACTH levels.
You need xrays ASAP to make sure there is no rotation . once any rotation is corrected (easier to do this without shoes as Laminitic feet grow fast and rotation needs to be corrected a little at a time depending on how much....6-8 weeks is usuallybtoo long in between trims), she should feel alot more comfortable.
Agnus Castus shouldn't be used while on prascend
Once you have things under control, you'll be surprised how quickly they can come right
Good luck x
Shes on prascend now so that should start to control her ACTH levels.
You need xrays ASAP to make sure there is no rotation . once any rotation is corrected (easier to do this without shoes as Laminitic feet grow fast and rotation needs to be corrected a little at a time depending on how much....6-8 weeks is usuallybtoo long in between trims), she should feel alot more comfortable.
Agnus Castus shouldn't be used while on prascend
Once you have things under control, you'll be surprised how quickly they can come right
Good luck x
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
just because it has the laminitis trust logo it does not mean it's safe for laminitis in fact I think it's very misleading as there site says no molasses for horses that are laminitic yet many feeds that does have molasses in it will carry the logo, personally I would prefer a feed without any molasses for a laminitic horse.
RubysGold
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all your replies
Ester, thanks for that, I had clicked on the pages on that link but hadn't opened the pdf.
I don't dare to use haylage because that was, in this case, the trigger. She was on haylage and it was far too rich for her. I know this haylage is designed with laminitis in mind but if it's the cause in the first place then maybe best avoided. Unless I could soak it, maybe?
It is so confusing with the logos being put on bags that aren't always a good choice.
She absolutely will not touch soaked hay, even though she is tucked up constantly through not eating, she will pretend it isn't there.
This morning I gave her her normal breakfast with meds and then soaked 1kg of fast fibre, really sloppy to get some water and food into her. She wolfed that down. So am now thinking 2kg twice a day of fast fibre and some kind of chop. I think my feed shop does an oat straw chop she can try.
Ester, thanks for that, I had clicked on the pages on that link but hadn't opened the pdf.
I don't dare to use haylage because that was, in this case, the trigger. She was on haylage and it was far too rich for her. I know this haylage is designed with laminitis in mind but if it's the cause in the first place then maybe best avoided. Unless I could soak it, maybe?
It is so confusing with the logos being put on bags that aren't always a good choice.
She absolutely will not touch soaked hay, even though she is tucked up constantly through not eating, she will pretend it isn't there.
This morning I gave her her normal breakfast with meds and then soaked 1kg of fast fibre, really sloppy to get some water and food into her. She wolfed that down. So am now thinking 2kg twice a day of fast fibre and some kind of chop. I think my feed shop does an oat straw chop she can try.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
That is your choice
It was my choice to listen to D&H and Fibergy was fine with her which is what I am saying all along, what works for one does not work for another. My mare had Fibery all along and it did not make her lami worse, people have to make their own decisions what they feed their horses. I had 2 1/2 years of lami I got to cross every T and dot every I.
That is all very well feeding no molasses if that is the only issue but with mine it was not the only issue.
mdfreeman37
Active Member
My girl has been on box rest since july following her pedal bones in both dropping and rotating..Followed by them doing it again in September just as things were looking up. I'm lucky as we found some hay on the farm which is absolutely rubbish which had been dried in the field, rained on for a few days and then dried again. When it was bailed the farmer thought he'd end up burning it but its proved invaluable as she didn't like soaked. She's currently on mole valley hifi lite, topspec antilam and a hoof formula with 40mg of biotin that my vet has made up.
She's had to have heartbars manufactured as she's also a shire cross (with warmblood) and has rather large feet (standing at 18hh).
A good vet and farrier can make all the difference as I was told to expect the worse (Possible PTS) as she had very serve lami in her right, but she seems to be doing well so far. Fingers and hoofs crossed for you.
She's had to have heartbars manufactured as she's also a shire cross (with warmblood) and has rather large feet (standing at 18hh).
A good vet and farrier can make all the difference as I was told to expect the worse (Possible PTS) as she had very serve lami in her right, but she seems to be doing well so far. Fingers and hoofs crossed for you.
_HP_
Well-Known Member
My Shetland was fed horseage haylage while in the throws of Laminitis in December. If you look at the analysis it is under 5% sugar andn1_2 starch....that's really much lower than most hay
Alternatively, try soaking your hay for less time...it really only needs an hour?
Alternatively, try soaking your hay for less time...it really only needs an hour?
Orca
Well-Known Member
Oat straw has really helped control my mares weight. What gave me the reassurance to feed it, was the recommendation of this honeychop oat straw chaff by another poster. It has only 2% sugar, so definitely worth considering I would say, particularly if she won't accept soaked forage...
http://www.honeychop.com/our-horse-feed/honeychop-oat-straw/
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RubysGold
Well-Known Member
Mdfreeman, your girl is lovely. I hope she is much better soon. It must have been so awful when they rotated more in September :-(
HP she will not eat it, regardless of how long I soak for. Ive been soaking it an hour and she will not touch it.
Orca, that is what I want, the lady in the shop said she will find out for me by tomorrow whether she can get me any or not. If not I will try ringing a couple of other shops and see if I can get hold of any
HP she will not eat it, regardless of how long I soak for. Ive been soaking it an hour and she will not touch it.
Orca, that is what I want, the lady in the shop said she will find out for me by tomorrow whether she can get me any or not. If not I will try ringing a couple of other shops and see if I can get hold of any
Harriettie
Well-Known Member
I'd have a chat with the wonderful people at Thunderbrook feeds. I have 'acquired' a horse with EMS which has to be managed the same / similar to laminitis (although he's never had laminitis thankfully) and changed his feeding regime over to their products - what a different horse. They specialise in feeds for horses with EMS and associated diseases and their nutritionist happily spoke to me on the phone for over an hour to help me. I wish they'd been around when I lost my mare of a lifetime to laminitis 17 years ago. Best of luck.
Spot_the_Risk
Well-Known Member
OP, once you've soaked your hay could you pour a bucket of water with one cup of Fast Fibre in it over the hay, to give it a better taste? Worth a try...
spookypony
Well-Known Member
mdfreeman37
Active Member
Thanks RubysGold. I've posted mistys story a few times on a few facebook groups to try and dispel all the doom and gloom stories. It's just a case of time and not rushing anything. She's been out in the school for the first time last weekend and nearly gave me a heart attack when she decided not to walk, but canter and gallop!!! The good thing was no raised pluses and all looks ok so hopefully wont be too long before shes given the all clear
Lottyhorse
Well-Known Member
Hi OP, very sorry to hear about your mare. It is recoverable from, my New Forest gelding gained way too much weight the 2nd Summer I had him and came down with Laminitis. He had pedal bone rotation in both front feet, so in on advise of my vet I kept him on box rest for 6 weeks (or as long as it took to get him sound and pain free). Oat straw was an absolute god send. As you can imagine being a native, his main purpose for being is to eat. But even he didn't like soaked hay of any type be it soaked for an hour or longer. If I remember correctly I fed him 1.5% of his body weight in straw, with a hand full of Hi Fi Light just to feed his bute. He wasn't on bute for long, twice daily for about a week.
Currently I'm feeding 2 big nets of straw per day, emptied out in his field and shelter, and lo cal balancer. I have previously fed Fast Fibre when the grazing goes to zero in the Winter as it is now. For the rest of his ration, well, he needs to find what he can in his field, that's how he's designed to get his calorie intake. He has his annual health check with the vet each February and they have been very pleased with his condition ever since. Last year coming out of Winter he was a little underweight, but the vet advised that was far, far preferable to being overweight, or even on target for a pony of his type. He put weight back on through the Spring and SUmmer (not too much) and is now very slightly under his ideal healthy weight, so he has room to "bloom" again when the grass comes through.
So as someone else has said, keeping it simple, being vigilant about water intake and number of poos produced whilst on box rest, did the trick. In hindsight, it was a very quick recovery, by a very resilient pony, and my god, haven't I learned my lesson about allowing too much access to grass! Now (5 years later), I continue to be super vigilant about his grass/feed intake, digital pulses, crestiness and gait. It took about a year for his front hooves to recover fully (he basically had to grow two new ones I suppose), he has been left with a tiny bit of seedy toe, which is almost gone now. He is ridden lightly 2 - 3 times a week, when the weather is good, less so in Winter, so is probably classed as at rest/in very light work. He is barefoot and is trimmed every 7 weeks.
Best wishes and keep us updated.
Currently I'm feeding 2 big nets of straw per day, emptied out in his field and shelter, and lo cal balancer. I have previously fed Fast Fibre when the grazing goes to zero in the Winter as it is now. For the rest of his ration, well, he needs to find what he can in his field, that's how he's designed to get his calorie intake. He has his annual health check with the vet each February and they have been very pleased with his condition ever since. Last year coming out of Winter he was a little underweight, but the vet advised that was far, far preferable to being overweight, or even on target for a pony of his type. He put weight back on through the Spring and SUmmer (not too much) and is now very slightly under his ideal healthy weight, so he has room to "bloom" again when the grass comes through.
So as someone else has said, keeping it simple, being vigilant about water intake and number of poos produced whilst on box rest, did the trick. In hindsight, it was a very quick recovery, by a very resilient pony, and my god, haven't I learned my lesson about allowing too much access to grass! Now (5 years later), I continue to be super vigilant about his grass/feed intake, digital pulses, crestiness and gait. It took about a year for his front hooves to recover fully (he basically had to grow two new ones I suppose), he has been left with a tiny bit of seedy toe, which is almost gone now. He is ridden lightly 2 - 3 times a week, when the weather is good, less so in Winter, so is probably classed as at rest/in very light work. He is barefoot and is trimmed every 7 weeks.
Best wishes and keep us updated.
RubysGold
Well-Known Member
Roo ate the fast fibre for a couple of days and then decided it was boring. She won't touch it.
The fast fibre was the only way I was managing to get food or water into her.
On Saturday I rang the vets to tell them that I was struggling, Roo wasn't eating or drinking (had even gone off her hard feed) and she was just standing at the door or sleeping. The vets came and gave her a painkiller injection. Saturday night she drank some water but still no food and I was syringing danilon into her.
On Monday, I was mucking out when Roo had a wee. It was red!! I also noticed huge swellings on her stomach. So the vet came back out. She is concerned about Roos kidneys. She took some blood to test. Told me that the swelling is called oedema and it's lost protein. She told me to reduce the danilon and gave us some gastriguard.
The results show very low protein levels which she says she expected. Roo is to have no bute at all and just stick with the gastriguard.
She seems slightly better since. This morning she was holding her head higher and looking at what was going on. She is now eating hifi lite (it is the only thing I can get her to eat) so she had a scoop last night and two scoops this morning. She actually nickered at me this morning!! :-D
Vet is coming back on Friday to see how we are doing.
The fast fibre was the only way I was managing to get food or water into her.
On Saturday I rang the vets to tell them that I was struggling, Roo wasn't eating or drinking (had even gone off her hard feed) and she was just standing at the door or sleeping. The vets came and gave her a painkiller injection. Saturday night she drank some water but still no food and I was syringing danilon into her.
On Monday, I was mucking out when Roo had a wee. It was red!! I also noticed huge swellings on her stomach. So the vet came back out. She is concerned about Roos kidneys. She took some blood to test. Told me that the swelling is called oedema and it's lost protein. She told me to reduce the danilon and gave us some gastriguard.
The results show very low protein levels which she says she expected. Roo is to have no bute at all and just stick with the gastriguard.
She seems slightly better since. This morning she was holding her head higher and looking at what was going on. She is now eating hifi lite (it is the only thing I can get her to eat) so she had a scoop last night and two scoops this morning. She actually nickered at me this morning!! :-D
Vet is coming back on Friday to see how we are doing.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
What a horrid time your going through, I been through this to the end.
Her swelling is prob an odema, which is protein leaking into the abdomen wall, my mare had this and the vet recommended soya oil to improve the protein levels. Has the vet said she is dehydrated????, ask the vet if you can give her speedy beet water to get her to drink something. Or maybe a little free apple juice in her water say half a cup, the vet said this one was a good one for my mare http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=265179313. Just enough for the smell and taste to help her to drink, sounds like her organs are finding it hard to deal with all the toxins etc. *D* was like this.
I just read your post without seeing the odema bit, ask them if you can give her a little soya oil, also ask them to check her liver too *D* had liver issues too and had to go onto legaphyton and milk thistle.
If her liver is compromised then fast fibre must not be given.
Rubys gold if you scroll down this page on laminitis you will see my mares odema, it did reduce with the soya oil http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/l.html
If the livers normal powers are struggling you need to swing it in the favour of the liver, remove anything in the diet which causes the liver to struggle.
Another thing I was allowed to do was pick nettles and give her one nettle a day once dried to act as a tonic
My welsh A has had dangerously high levels of liver bloods and are now down and she and my boy are on legaphyton and milk thistle and the pony is allowed 4 small twists a day of licorice, though at the moment not for your mare.
Ask your vet about Legphyton http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/Legaphyton.html as well as milk thistle
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BlackVelvet
Well-Known Member
Laminitis takes such blood, sweat and tears to recover from, but it is possible so please do not be disheartened. My gelding developed lami in all four feet brought on by EMS, tbh before he got this i hadn't even heard of it so was completely unprepared! It was really heartbreaking to see him like that, he was given acp to sedate and encourage him to lay down, 30 metformin tablets and painkiller. He was in his stable for 4/5 months, even the yard owner was pleased to hear him start banging on his stable door in a morning! We had to completely change his lifestyle (he was 30+ years old, we didn't know this at the time!) i started riding again and he had to have limited turn out due to him being really sensitive to changes in the grass. It was a hard time, i worried about him constantly as he become footy easily. We managed to get the weight off him through exercise and strict diet and had one last summer together before he sadly died from colic and heart failure.
Best vibes to you and your mare!
Best vibes to you and your mare!