Laminitis

[Apizz2019]

Our pony was diagnosed with low grade laminitis at the beginning of this week.

Reduced exercise due to the weather, longer turn out and the horrid weather causing the grass to be evil to little ponies, and here we are.

We're on day 4 of box rest and one day left of Danilon.

Our pony had slight pulses and minimal heat, negative to hoof testers, but was reluctant to turn a circle etc.

The vet called me yesterday to see how he's doing and will check in again tomorrow.

His crest is going down quickly and he seems happy and comfortable, no heat, no pulses, though I've not yet walked him up to see how much better he's doing turning on a circle.

He does have slightly swollen coronet bands on both fronts and you can feel a dip above the coronet band, though the hair isn't sticking out or up.

I'll do whatever it takes to get him right but haven't dealt with laminitis for over 20 years, thankfully, so am not up to speed on what the normal protocol is.

My question is, in this instance, would you insist on xrays as the vet feels they are unnecessary? I disagree and feel it is highly likely there is some rotation, even if minimal, and want to ensure his feet are trimmed accordingly to get the best outcome.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

My Connie had very mild laminitis three years ago. Shoes whipped off, box rest on a very deep soft bed of shavings for 6 weeks and nothing but weighed soaked hay and then he went swimming for ten days to muscle back up. I didn’t have X-rays done until the very end when I got both vet and Farrier together so they could discuss any results and treatment in person rather than me relaying it third hand. If you want X-rays have them done. I would rather spend £100 and know for sure what’s going on than guess and no Farrier can see through a hoof wall so go with your instinct and get them done even if it’s just for peace of mind.

Good luck with getting pony right just make sure you keep him in the box with no walking out on a hard surface and no turning circles as the laminae will be dying and movement can cause the rotation.

 

[vmac66]

My mare had lami 2 years ago. She had 2 weeks strict box rest on a, deep bed and 1.5% percent total feed including soaked Hay. She was sound after the 2 weeks, did another 4 weeks of inhand grazing, still stabled then turn out on a small bare paddock. I didn't have x rays done as vet and farrier didn't think they were necessary.
I think as you can feel a slight dip above the coronet band I would have them done.

 

[Apizz2019]

My Connie had very mild laminitis three years ago. Shoes whipped off, box rest on a very deep soft bed of shavings for 6 weeks and nothing but weighed soaked hay and then he went swimming for ten days to muscle back up. I didn’t have X-rays done until the very end when I got both vet and Farrier together so they could discuss any results and treatment in person rather than me relaying it third hand. If you want X-rays have them done. I would rather spend £100 and know for sure what’s going on than guess and no Farrier can see through a hoof wall so go with your instinct and get them done even if it’s just for peace of mind.

Good luck with getting pony right just make sure you keep him in the box with no walking out on a hard surface and no turning circles as the laminae will be dying and movement can cause the rotation.

Thanks so much!

The vet has said because it's so mild, we can turn out next week, albeit in a bare paddock, but I'm not sure without xrays and seeing the extent of damage, if this is the best course of action.

Eurgh, such a nightmare ?

 

[Apizz2019]

My mare had lami 2 years ago. She had 2 weeks strict box rest on a, deep bed and 1.5% percent total feed including soaked Hay. She was sound after the 2 weeks, did another 4 weeks of inhand grazing, still stabled then turn out on a small bare paddock. I didn't have x rays done as vet and farrier didn't think they were necessary.
I think as you can feel a slight dip above the coronet band I would have them done.

Thank you.

That's what I'm thinking, the dip indicates that something has changed and needs evaluating before we do anything else.

The vet has said he can go on a bare paddock next week but I'm reluctant to do anything that is going to tip the balance out of favour, without fully understanding the damage done.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Apizz you know your pony better than the vet and if your aren’t happy turning him out don’t do it. The less they move until everything stabilises the better it is for the internal structure and that is what you are trying to protect. It doesn’t matter how mild the attack the rotation can be awful yet my Farrier has seen horses crippled with no rotation at all so there is no one size fits all. Work at reducing weight through diet and soaked hay and then when he is sound and you are happy turn him out of the bare paddock. My pony who takes two years to grow a full foot has only just grown new healthy laminae from his attack and he no longer has a gaping hole at the toe when his new shoes go on so it takes time, patience and a lot of vigilance.

 

[Apizz2019]

Apizz you know your pony better than the vet and if your aren’t happy turning him out don’t do it. The less they move until everything stabilises the better it is for the internal structure and that is what you are trying to protect. It doesn’t matter how mild the attack the rotation can be awful yet my Farrier has seen horses crippled with no rotation at all so there is no one size fits all. Work at reducing weight through diet and soaked hay and then when he is sound and you are happy turn him out of the bare paddock. My pony who takes two years to grow a full foot has only just grown new healthy laminae from his attack and he no longer has a gaping hole at the toe when his new shoes go on so it takes time, patience and a lot of vigilance.

Thank you - I've just called them and said I'd like xrays done ASAP.

At least then I know what we're dealing with as outward signs can differ drastically to what's actually going on.

 

[Apizz2019]

Xrays booked for tomorrow morning.

I'm keeping everything crossed. Its my daughters birthday next week and having lost her lifetime pony just before Covid last year, I don't think I can bear to bring her more bad news ?

 

[SEL]

Thank you - I've just called them and said I'd like xrays done ASAP.

At least then I know what we're dealing with as outward signs can differ drastically to what's actually going on.

Good idea. A friend struggled on with heart bars and then finally got x rays - the pedal bone had dropped and was in a slightly odd position in 1 hoof which meant the heart bars were doing more harm than good. Specialist farrier whipped them off and is using dental impression stuff, pads and boots now. Horse is looking better than she has for a long time and hopefully on road to recovery. Like a poster above said, you can't see inside the hoof without an x ray and even if they are totally clear then it will help plan next steps

 

[Apizz2019]

Good idea. A friend struggled on with heart bars and then finally got x rays - the pedal bone had dropped and was in a slightly odd position in 1 hoof which meant the heart bars were doing more harm than good. Specialist farrier whipped them off and is using dental impression stuff, pads and boots now. Horse is looking better than she has for a long time and hopefully on road to recovery. Like a poster above said, you can't see inside the hoof without an x ray and even if they are totally clear then it will help plan next steps

He's barefoot, so I'm hoping a good and correct trim will help ??

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Everything crossed for tomorrow morning and please let us know how he gets on.

 

[Apizz2019]

Everything crossed for tomorrow morning and please let us know how he gets on.

Thank you ?
My heart hurts - I can't go through that pain again.

 

[vmac66]

Hope all goes well tomorrow.

 

[Apizz2019]

Hope all goes well tomorrow.

Thank you ?

 

[Apizz2019]

Xrays done - anxiously awaiting results.

I didn't get a close look but it did seem there was some sinkage on his off fore.

No heat or pulses today which is progress.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Xrays done - anxiously awaiting results.

I didn't get a close look but it did seem there was some sinkage on his off fore.

No heat or pulses today which is progress.

Well done for trusting your instincts and having them done and the good news about his pulses. It’s always a relief when they subside because you know you are heading in the right direction. During the summer I tend to check them at the same time every day so I have a baseline to work from as they can feel stronger depending on what you are doing or how hot it is etc. Hopefully the vet won’t leave you wondering for long although I am a bit surprised they didn’t discuss the images with you at the time. Just keep doing what you are with box rest and soaked hay for now and we are always here to offer moral support if you find things getting a bit much.

 

[Apizz2019]

Well done for trusting your instincts and having them done and the good news about his pulses. It’s always a relief when they subside because you know you are heading in the right direction. During the summer I tend to check them at the same time every day so I have a baseline to work from as they can feel stronger depending on what you are doing or how hot it is etc. Hopefully the vet won’t leave you wondering for long although I am a bit surprised they didn’t discuss the images with you at the time. Just keep doing what you are with box rest and soaked hay for now and we are always here to offer moral support if you find things getting a bit much.

Results are in and everything is okay, just as it should be. Such a relief!!

I'm erring on the side of caution and will keep him in for another week, start gentle exercise once he's 100% sound on a circle and then turn out for 1 hour at a time the week after, gradually increasing.

The yard owner has very kindly sectioned off a small bit of field for him, enough to move around freely but not enough to gorge himself silly. He won't be turned out until after 9am every day and will be in by 1pm at the latest when we're back to normal.

And we'll be back to his daily exercise by then so all should be okay, I hope!

As he's a native, I manage as if he's EMS so will continue to do so but be mindful of the weather and potential days off work and balance accordingly.

Thanks so much for your support, it is very much appreciated x

 

[brighteyes]

Thank you.

That's what I'm thinking, the dip indicates that something has changed and needs evaluating before we do anything else.

The vet has said he can go on a bare paddock next week but I'm reluctant to do anything that is going to tip the balance out of favour, without fully understanding the damage done.

Wrote this yesterday and got distracted!
Turnout? No, no, no. Don't be in a rush to move him. Crest, you say? That's a red flag for a start. Depending on age, pony needs checking for PPID and EMS, the meds for which can drastically alter the outcome if relevant.

 

[brighteyes]

Results are in and everything is okay, just as it should be. Such a relief!!

I'm erring on the side of caution and will keep him in for another week, start gentle exercise once he's 100% sound on a circle and then turn out for 1 hour at a time the week after, gradually increasing.

The yard owner has very kindly sectioned off a small bit of field for him, enough to move around freely but not enough to gorge himself silly. He won't be turned out until after 9am every day and will be in by 1pm at the latest when we're back to normal.

And we'll be back to his daily exercise by then so all should be okay, I hope!

As he's a native, I manage as if he's EMS so will continue to do so but be mindful of the weather and potential days off work and balance accordingly.

Thanks so much for your support, it is very much appreciated x

Oh fab - you got a grazing muzzle? My vet always said no to much free moving until they are 2 weeks sound on concrete with no bute. Not sure whether that's still valid.

 

[Apizz2019]

Wrote this yesterday and got distracted!
Turnout? No, no, no. Don't be in a rush to move him. Crest, you say? That's a red flag for a start. Depending on age, pony needs checking for PPID and EMS, the meds for which can drastically alter the outcome if relevant.

I'm in no rush, he'll be staying in next week too and I'll take each day as it comes.

No heat, pulses etc and xrays from today are normal.

We'll walk out in hand when he's 100% sound on a circle - I haven't checked as I've not moved him out of his stable since Monday, as per protocol.

He doesn't present as PPID, I've had one and caught it early, though of course it still progresses even with medication. And I've not tested for EMS but already treat him as if EMS as he's a native.

 

[Apizz2019]

Oh fab - you got a grazing muzzle? My vet always said no to much free moving until they are 2 weeks sound on concrete with no bute. Not sure whether that's still valid.

I'm muzzle shopping now. We tried one last year but he got very distressed and cut his face up a little. I need to find one which is least restrictive and bulky but serves the purpose.

The vet is happy as xrays are normal, to start exercising as soon as he's sound on a circle. I haven't walked him out to check as I've kept him as still as possible so he could well be okay ??

He's already off painkillers so here's hoping for the best!

 

[vmac66]

Glad the results are what you wanted.
My mare had 3 weeks of inhand walking and grazing once she was sound.

 

[windand rain]

Laminitis ponies should stay on box rest for a minimum of 30 days after becoming sound off all drugs. This time is to allow blood and serum to be reabsorbed from the laminae to allow the tissue to heal and become strong. Any laminitic is at risk of foundering (usually but not always fatal) if allowed to move too soon so keep him as still as possible its not food that kills laminitics it is movement. I too would test for metabolic issues so you know what you are dealing with long term.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Laminitis ponies should stay on box rest for a minimum of 30 days after becoming sound off all drugs. This time is to allow blood and serum to be reabsorbed from the laminae to allow the tissue to heal and become strong. Any laminitic is at risk of foundering (usually but not always fatal) if allowed to move too soon so keep him as still as possible its not food that kills laminitics it is movement. I too would test for metabolic issues so you know what you are dealing with long term.

Completely agree about the non movement and it is why B stayed on box rest for a full 6 weeks and then went swimming in straight lines for 10 days. He wasn’t even allowed on the walker and once back in work it was straight lines.

As for testing I’m in two minds about this. B is a Connie, I took my eye off the ball and he got to fat. Totally my fault and I know it. DP on the other hand has EMS, again I know he has it but I have never had him tested because it’s a family trait and his older sister had to be PTS as hers was unmanageable so I can’t see the point.

 

[Apizz2019]

Laminitis ponies should stay on box rest for a minimum of 30 days after becoming sound off all drugs. This time is to allow blood and serum to be reabsorbed from the laminae to allow the tissue to heal and become strong. Any laminitic is at risk of foundering (usually but not always fatal) if allowed to move too soon so keep him as still as possible its not food that kills laminitics it is movement. I too would test for metabolic issues so you know what you are dealing with long term.

I think there are many different schools of thought on when they should move etc - I'm happy to take my vets advice but am still erring on the side of caution.

I have discussed testing for EMS but having had an EMS pony previously, I'd not choose to medicate with Metaformin anyway (many different reasons) so I'll continue to treat as if he's EMS with diet, exercise etc.

Last week was the worst, with bad weather preventing us exercising, bad weather creating grass sugars that are evil to some horses and ponies and also him being out longer - all things combined tipped the balance out of favour.

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

Have tested for PPID vets now reckon 90% of laminitis is from undiagnosed/uncontrolled PPID. Mine was on box rest for a months before very gradual muzzled turn out

 

[Apizz2019]

Have tested for PPID vets now reckon 90% of laminitis is from undiagnosed/uncontrolled PPID. Mine was on box rest for a months before very gradual muzzled turn out

I was at the RVC on Tuesday for a CT scan of our ponys teeth (he'd been cleared to travel) and I discussed lami with the vet and he said this year, they've seen a huge number of cases of lami due to the weather. Fit competition horses, in full work, no PPID/EMS have been crippled.

A farrier I spoke to also said this year has been like a year approx 25. years ago, when he was asked to do more remedial shoeing and resection than he was shoeing sound healthy horses.

I've discussed PPID and EMS with the vet but having had a PPID horse before, I don't see any of even the subtle signs of this. Our PPID pony wouldnt heal after cuts/scrapes, had an incredibly high worm count, eye infections and reacted to fly bites. No retained coat etc or any of the signs normaly associated with PPID but I knew something was up.

My vet said we can test for EMS but even if he were to be EMS, they don't always offer medication to treat as it doesn't always work and EMS (if caught and managed well) can be treated by diet and exercise. We already treat our pony as EMS because he's native.

I honestly think the reduced exercise, vile weather and being out for longer than normal, tipped the favour out of balance. And I'd taken my eye off the ball.

But, I will remain cautious.

Do you have a link to this 90% reference? I'm reading up as much as I can about everything and anything.

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

https://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/

You or your vet can download free test voucher from this site too

 

[Apizz2019]

Perfect, thank you! X

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

https://thehorse.com/166360/ppid-and-laminitis-in-horses-whats-the-relationship/