Land Management for Horses with Dr Lisa Schofield..

[ImmyS]

This is a group on facebook - a lot of you maybe aware of this already but just wanted to put it out there for people who may not have seen it before as I’ve found it so helpful and informative in how to manage grassland better for the horses etc.

Well worth having a look!

 

[FlyingCircus]

Sorry to bump old post but I'm curious on this one. I'm reading lots of the info on there and it is very contrary to anything I've been taught before RE keeping horses.

Does anyone know Dr Lisa's credentials?

 

[ycbm]

Sorry to bump old post but I'm curious on this one. I'm reading lots of the info on there and it is very contrary to anything I've been taught before RE keeping horses.

Does anyone know Dr Lisa's credentials?

The group is private and I don't want to join it, can you summarise a few key points?

 

[FlyingCircus]

Well, I asked nicely over PM if she'd be willing to share her credentials as I like to make sure may facts come from facts and not just strong personal opinions and I got booted from the group and called rude.

Tells me everything I need to know.

 

[FlyingCircus]

The group is private and I don't want to join it, can you summarise a few key points?

There is a lot on there about improving the land which seems contrary to keeping good doers. Supposedly it land is maintained properly, then it will be better for good doers than short sugary grass.

I understand that as a concept but don't want to change my management practice just based on someone's opinion with no science to back it up...

But heyho, 13k people on that group may think otherwise

 

[ycbm]

Well that's completely contrary to my own management, which was complete neglect except for dock and ragwort control. I guess you need more land to do that, though, as the energy content will be lower, but for me that was another advantage.
.

 

[Miss_Millie]

There is a lot on there about improving the land which seems contrary to keeping good doers. Supposedly it land is maintained properly, then it will be better for good doers than short sugary grass.

I understand that as a concept but don't want to change my management practice just based on someone's opinion with no science to back it up...

But heyho, 13k people on that group may think otherwise

I am on the group, the information shared is science based and not opinion based. The very basic principle of any kind of land management, from a small garden to acres of fields, is that you must put organic matter back onto the land to replenish what is taken, whether that is from growing crops or animals grazing. There are obviously a lot of variables depending on how much land you have and how many animals you have on it, what the soil type is in your area etc.

Shorter grass is higher in sugar because it is in a constant state of stress. If the land is never rested then it will always be parched and sugary.

I've gained some useful insights from the group, personally. If people don't want to join the group but want to understand the premise, they can look into permaculture and/or the Equicentral system of land and horse management.

 

[Nudibranch]

Her PhD is in psychology.
Joined the group, soon left. Not for me; rather a controlling attitude and unwilling to discuss or debate. But then I find anyone who misuses their qualifications to try and gain credibility just gets my back up from the off. We could all do it but fortunately most of us choose not to.

 

[showingfan2]

I find it useful but mainly lurk.

 

[Orangehorse]

I watched a programme it was from a farming platform, maybe the Pasture For Life people. It was interesting, but a lot of faf, and I wasn't 100% convinced, it seemed to me as though it would be spending every day moving fences.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Her PhD is in psychology.
Joined the group, soon left. Not for me or my horses or my land.

Explains the quick booting I received

I wasn't even trying to be difficult! I just wanted to make sure that any changes I worked in to my management weren't going to do more damage than good.

There are an awful lot of horsey people who state opinion as fact. It can be so difficult to wade through all of the information and filter out that which is not from reputable sources.

 

[Burnttoast]

I was in that group briefly. I left (way too much encouragement to spray 'weeds') and an ecologist friend of mine was booted for questioning the heavy reliance on sprays. Maybe the advice offered has changed since then but I doubt it.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I am on the group, the information shared is science based and not opinion based. The very basic principle of any kind of land management, from a small garden to acres of fields, is that you must put organic matter back onto the land to replenish what is taken, whether that is from growing crops or animals grazing. There are obviously a lot of variables depending on how much land you have and how many animals you have on it, what the soil type is in your area etc.

Shorter grass is higher in sugar because it is in a constant state of stress. If the land is never rested then it will always be parched and sugary.

I've gained some useful insights from the group, personally. If people don't want to join the group but want to understand the premise, they can look into permaculture and/or the Equicentral system of land and horse management.

Good land management and good horse management don't necessarily go hand in hand though, and there are trade offs to be made.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I was in that group briefly. I left (way too much encouragement to spray 'weeds') and an ecologist friend of mine was booted for questioning the heavy reliance on sprays. Maybe the advice offered has changed since then but I doubt it.

The one thing I strongly disagree with on the group is the use of sprays to remove weeds etc.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Good land management and good horse management don't necessarily go hand in hand though, and there are trade offs to be made.

Yes, it's never black and white, but there are basic principles to be followed which generally apply across the board, such as putting organic matter back into the soil.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The one thing I strongly disagree with on the group is the use of sprays to remove weeds etc.

Especially when cross grazing works very well and some 'weeds' are very beneficial to horses.
It would never occur to me to ask a psychologist about land management tbh.

 

[Burnttoast]

The one thing I strongly disagree with on the group is the use of sprays to remove weeds etc.

My own view (I will freely admit I have only circumstantial evidence to support it) is that the major issue in horse/land management is synthetic chemical use. We make grass toxic for an animal evolved to eat it and then pussyfoot around the edges pretending that grass length and sugar content (grass is mostly water let's face it) are going to make a difference when the amount of EMS/PPID/laminitis tells us that we are, at best, badly managing problems of our own creation. Oh and we expect horses to subsist on acreages that are far too small.

 

[Hackback]

I also joined briefly but it all seemed to be about spreading horse muck back over the fields. There's only so many posts you can read abiut the same thing. I'm a bit FB challenged though so maybe there was more to it than that.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Yes, it's never black and white, but there are basic principles to be followed which generally apply across the board, such as putting organic matter back into the soil.

This part wasn't the bit I struggled with. It was more the encouraging of grazing on long grasses for good doers. There was a long post about how grazing short grass is bad for good doers and long grass is better. Then many comments about how horses would end up eating more calories in long grass due to amount consumed vs short grass....it was all quite confusing and I think could be quite damaging if people took it at face value and threw their fatties out on long (longer than beer bottle) grass to graze.

Hence the wanting to understand the qualifications and background of those posting, so I could understand if I should be letting my fatties onto the grass or not. Muzzled or not. Track or not. Etc. I'm defo not an expert and don't pretend to be, but I'd like to make sure those I'm taking advice from are experts if it is something as serious as my horses health at stake.

 

[Polos Mum]

Some of the theory is good for making quality grass land - but very difficult to put into practice with native horses unless you win the lottery and don't have anything else to do all day other than fill soaked haynets and other enrichment on a grass free track

It's "cruel" to have fat horses on short grazing and if they are given enough things to do they will not gorge - is todays debate
She's clearly never met mine.

My summer 'dust bowl' is probably ruined - and yes there is high sugar in the bits they are sucking out of the ground. But vs. having them stood in all day or ploughing it all up to reseed with native grasses (and the 3 years it would take to recover from that) or having instant lami - I don't feel she proposes any practical suggestions for the majority of UK based hobby horse owners.

 

[ycbm]

I do think very short grass is an issue but I'm not sure that access to unlimited quantities of grass is the answer.

"If they have enough to do"? Mine weren't very good at jigsaws and I didn't want to ride for 10 hours.
.

 

[Nasicus]

It's "cruel" to have fat horses on short grazing and if they are given enough things to do they will not gorge - is todays debate
She's clearly never met mine.

Same, a few of mine in the past took it as a challenge!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Horses are designed to eat many different species of plants to encourage a wide range of healthy hind gut bacteria. Spraying is not a great idea at all unless it is spot treatment of poisonous plants.

Those of us in the know are adding more diversity to our horse's diets by adding dried oily and hedgerow herbs, not eradicating diversity by spraying .

Anyhoo, if she boots people out who ask polite questions then that tells you all you need to know about her!

 

[FlyingCircus]

I could put out endless enrichment opportunities for my ponies and they would still prefer to eat...Unless I'm involved in the enrichment by walking in hand etc, which I don't have time to do for several hours each day...then they will ignore the "things" and just eat the grass.

 

[Burnttoast]

Making 'good' grass for horses also fails to take into account that modern horses are hardly ever living in normal social groups (entire males, females usually pregnant/lactating, and youngsters) that require more calories because of their biology and that do engage in social behaviours (some of which we often discourage because they look scary to us) that take up some time/energy each day.

 

[Polos Mum]

I do think very short grass is an issue but I'm not sure that access to unlimited quantities of grass is the answer.

"If they have enough to do"? Mine weren't very good at jigsaws and I didn't want to ride for 10 hours.
.

The environmental enrichment is in the form of companionship and varied terrain for them to explore, move around and seek other ways to get their stimulation. Think trees and bushes, shade and logs. And some of the wonderful varied terrain and stimulation provided by those doing tracks well and for a living.

I honestly can't think of what I could put in my fields that would distract them away from food for any meaningful length of time - maybe a 'not that hungry' wolf or something to prowl around and keep them on their toes.

The day a 3 foot high No.6 birthday balloon landed in their field the snorting did burn a calorie or two I suspect.

 

[Peglo]

This part wasn't the bit I struggled with. It was more the encouraging of grazing on long grasses for good doers. There was a long post about how grazing short grass is bad for good doers and long grass is better. Then many comments about how horses would end up eating more calories in long grass due to amount consumed vs short grass....it was all quite confusing and I think could be quite damaging if people took it at face value and threw their fatties out on long (longer than beer bottle) grass to graze

Hence the wanting to understand the qualifications and background of those posting, so I could understand if I should be letting my fatties onto the grass or not. Muzzled or not. Track or not. Etc. I'm defo not an expert and don't pretend to be, but I'd like to make sure those I'm taking advice from are experts if it is something as serious as my horses health at stake.

My TB escaped into the very long winter field through the summer months a few times. Even after being trashed through the winter it grows back lush and green. Fortunately she was always easy to keep and never fat but there was no way I’d ever catch her in the winter field except for the fact she’d eat herself into a grass coma. She wasn’t a greedy horse so goodness knows what state the fatties would get themselves into if they had the option of unlimited grass.

 

[Burnttoast]

The environmental enrichment is in the form of companionship and varied terrain for them to explore, move around and seek other ways to get their stimulation. Think trees and bushes, shade and logs. And some of the wonderful varied terrain and stimulation provided by those doing tracks well and for a living.

I honestly can't think of what I could put in my fields that would distract them away from food for any meaningful length of time - maybe a 'not that hungry' wolf or something to prowl around and keep them on their toes.

The day a 3 foot high No.6 birthday balloon landed in their field the snorting did burn a calorie or two I suspect.

Tracks by their nature mean no or limited grass, hence the need for enrichment. But head-down chewing is a programmed behaviour in horses so if there's lovely beer-bottle-length grass available, horses will spend their time eating it.

 

[ycbm]

The environmental enrichment is in the form of companionship and varied terrain for them to explore, move around and seek other ways to get their stimulation. Think trees and bushes, shade and logs.

I don't know any horse with a propensity to be fat whose weight could be controlled by those things when unlimited quantities of grass were available.

I had something akin to that when I had horses at home, yet I still had several horses which had to be very carefully managed in order not to get raised pulses.
.

 

[tda]

I was on that fb page for a while and it gave me some good info about improving pasture. She doesn't like spraying things either but there are a lot of posts from people who want to spray to give them a good start, so the Dr will advise which to use.

Like others have said, I could not have 6inch grass and leave my lot to it. I'll stick to my track and hay feeding stations.

I left because she kept getting angry with people asking the same questions day after day.......Use the search too!!!.........i couldn't find the search tool on my phone screen so possibly others having same issue