Land Management for Horses with Dr Lisa Schofield..

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Well I guess out of sheer curiosity I've joined the group.

You had to answer some questions first - which I have to say felt a bit slanted i.e. there was an are-you-prepared-to-think-outside-the-box sort of question ....... but I'll see how I feel about it.

Joined earlier today, still waiting for Admin approval. Well let you all know how it goes!

 

[Lady Jane]

I'm not 100% sure I agree on even the 2 hours argument.

I listened to a well thought out obesity talk at our local vets and the vet there suggested we all went home, got two carrier bags and scissors and went into 2 fields.

We had to spend 10 mins cutting grass into the bag in a long grass field and then 10 mins cutting grass on a short grass field into the bag.
Then compared. We all agree totally that per gram there is less sugar in the longer grass - but her point was, look how much more they can shovel in - in the same amount of time in long vs. short grass.

Unless your grazing is on Shetland or the new forest and totally unimproved with heather, gorse, scrub, weeds, rocks, lichen etc. etc. it can't be 'natural' enough to let them have free range at easy shovelling length.

I also think most of us would wobble at the skinniness of free range horses in say USA at the end of the winter.

I'm not entirely convinced on the long and short for 2 hours either but I think it depends how old and chewy the long grass is - and that's the point - too many variables to risk it. I do agree with all your comments. I have a small paddock with long grass and I occassionally put him in there while I muck out if I'm going somewhere for the day and he has been in over night. No science but I count 30mins of shovelling long grass = 1.5hrs of short

 

[Lady Jane]

Well I guess out of sheer curiosity I've joined the group.

You had to answer some questions first - which I have to say felt a bit slanted i.e. there was an are-you-prepared-to-think-outside-the-box sort of question ....... but I'll see how I feel about it.

Joined earlier today, still waiting for Admin approval. Well let you all know how it goes!

I read and say nothing - it is interesting but many of her followers are a bit sycophantic and she is dictatorial!

 

[Nudibranch]

I am not saying it's not helpful to add organic matter, I am replying to "The very basic principle of any kind of land management [...] is that you must put organic matter back onto the land to replenish what is taken" as a science based statement.


Not saying it's good or bad, but some crops are grown without soil at all.

I think the gradual turn towards soil health in farming (and elsewhere) is just the tip of the iceberg. Soil health is critical whether you want old pasture for natives or super sugary sward for dairy cattle. We've seen what happened on the American prairies when the soil was abused. Current thinking is that many UK farmed soils have about 50 years left before they are no longer productive, as a direct result of chemical fertiliser use but little or no organic matter. I believe, although I'd need to check, that a lot of hydroponic fruit and veg is lacking in trace minerals.

My own grazing is a good example. South facing hillside. Meadow grass and lots of wildflowers. Thin soil, currently burnt to a crisp in many places. We moved here last year and one of my projects is to increase the organic matter on the fields to try and improve them (not too much as I like the orchids and mini beasts but when even natives are struggling you know your grazing is sh***) . According to my neighbour, years ago these fields were ploughed and grew hay and maize. Absolutely no way they could now.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Do you mean in forests?


I am not saying it's not helpful to add organic matter, I am replying to "The very basic principle of any kind of land management [...] is that you must put organic matter back onto the land to replenish what is taken" as a science based statement.


Not saying it's good or bad, but some crops are grown without soil at all.

On any uncultivated land (which there isn't much left of in this country)

 

[HollyWoozle]

Ours live out 24/7 on relatively poor, short grazing, not a huge field and it works great for us. We feed a little hay all year round to ensure they get enough forage and they get a balancer. We find this much easier than worrying about how fat they are. We don’t fertilise (but we do harrow instead of poo-pick) or analyse or do anything sensible with it.

The grass is very short but my mare has been in the same field 14 years and seems in good form. I like the idea of managing the land in a sensible manner but since it works how it is maybe it’s better not to worry about it.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Re. the FB group. I "joined" (or rather submitted a membership request) when I first saw this thread. Answered the questions. Have heard nowt since. Ohh well.

 

[dominobrown]

A lot of the advice that people have found useful sounds a bit like the old 80 year old farmer neighbour next me goes on about... he is on about muck spreading etc, and sheep have help my land no end.
I am giving up livery but never had a case of laminitis the whole time as I have my native pony paddock, which is big, probably around 5 acres? It's the last field before it turns to 'fell', it has a boggy bit at the bottom but most if it is very very steep, had trees etc in it too and a wide variety of plants. It is too steep for tractors, to spray fertilise etc etc but as much as I had liveries moan their little natives where always sound and never got grossly fat even being out 24/7.

 

[SEL]

Ours live out 24/7 on relatively poor, short grazing, not a huge field and it works great for us. We feed a little hay all year round to ensure they get enough forage and they get a balancer. We find this much easier than worrying about how fat they are. We don’t fertilise (but we do harrow instead of poo-pick) or analyse or do anything sensible with it.

The grass is very short but my mare has been in the same field 14 years and seems in good form. I like the idea of managing the land in a sensible manner but since it works how it is maybe it’s better not to worry about it.

Putting the poo back is what the group encourages - Lisa discourages chemical fertilizers unless there's a serious imbalance.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Sorry to bump old post but I'm curious on this one. I'm reading lots of the info on there and it is very contrary to anything I've been taught before RE keeping horses.

Does anyone know Dr Lisa's credentials?

I don't know a great deal about this particular person but I'd be very careful. It reminds me (a lot) of a regenerative cattle grazing multi-level marketing scheme that I know about. The leader of that started his career as a recruiter for an Indian cult and has no agricultural experience or science training of any kind. Apparently if you pay him for courses on grazing management you can save the planet and get richer. A neighbour spent thousands with him.
Beware of anything that sound scientific if you are not being given links to the sources. Real scientists share everything, publish everything, constantly check each other's work.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I don't know a great deal about this particular person but I'd be very careful. It reminds me (a lot) of a regenerative cattle grazing multi-level marketing scheme that I know about. The leader of that started his career as a recruiter for an Indian cult and has no agricultural experience or science training of any kind. Apparently if you pay him for courses on grazing management you can save the planet and get richer. A neighbour spent thousands with him.
Beware of anything that sound scientific if you are not being given links to the sources. Real scientists share everything, publish everything, constantly check each other's work.

it is NOTHING like that. And there are lots of genuine links to other sources, research and other forms of data e.g. Agricultural grass analyis etc. being shared in the group.

 

[Ali27]

I’m in the group and find it does give some useful information! However I can’t bring myself to put horse muck back on the field! I’m ocd poo picking twice a day and to me, it defeats the object!

 

[Art Nouveau]

I’m in the group and find it does give some useful information! However I can’t bring myself to put horse muck back on the field! I’m ocd poo picking twice a day and to me, it defeats the object!

But the main object of poo picking is to reduce the worm burden on the land, so adding composted manure back doesn't defeat that. What it will do is ensure you maintain organic matter in your soil rather than depleting it.

This next comment isn't targeted at you specifically, but I do wonder when the environmental lobby will catch up with how much damage horse keeping does to the land, especially those kept on heavily overgrazed paddocks.

 

[Lady Jane]

I’m in the group and find it does give some useful information! However I can’t bring myself to put horse muck back on the field! I’m ocd poo picking twice a day and to me, it defeats the object!

I must say having removed it once to rot I don't often rev myself up to put it back. If I had the machinery I would

 

[Glitter's fun]

I’m in the group and find it does give some useful information! However I can’t bring myself to put horse muck back on the field! I’m ocd poo picking twice a day and to me, it defeats the object!

But the main object of poo picking is to reduce the worm burden on the land, so adding composted manure back doesn't defeat that. What it will do is ensure you maintain organic matter in your soil rather than depleting it.

Do bear in mind you have to compost the manure before it goes back on. It needs to get hot to kill worm eggs. There is a difference between composting and just letting it rot.
In uk, especially in winter a muck heap will rot slowly & without getting particularly hot . This manure is great for the garden or hay field but may contain parasite eggs. The size of the pile, siting (in sun or shade), whether you turn it periodically to introduce air, water content, & poo to bedding ratio will all determine if enough heat is generated to kill the eggs.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Do bear in mind you have to compost the manure before it goes back on. It needs to get hot to kill worm eggs. There is a difference between composting and just letting it rot.
In uk, especially in winter a muck heap will rot slowly & without getting particularly hot . This manure is great for the garden or hay field but may contain parasite eggs. The size of the pile, siting (in sun or shade), whether you turn it periodically to introduce air, water content, & poo to bedding ratio will all determine if enough heat is generated to kill the eggs.

This is true but in a stable population with targeted worming and worm counts that come back very low, the risks of spreading poo aren’t high. You can monitor impact with worm counts

 

[YourValentine]

This next comment isn't targeted at you specifically, but I do wonder when the environmental lobby will catch up with how much damage horse keeping does to the land, especially those kept on heavily overgrazed paddocks.

Absolutely this. We talk about the social license to ride etc but the equine industry is SO far behind the curve on land management.

As part of the "environmental lobby" actively working with farmers and kand mangers to improve sustainability of their farms and incorporate nature, I dispear as I drive past horse properties.

 

[Lady Jane]

Has anyone looked at the Land Management FB page (Lisa Schofield) recently? It appears to have vanished? Or have I been banned?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Has anyone looked at the Land Management FB page (Lisa Schofield) recently? It appears to have vanished? Or have I been banned?

Just looked, It's still there...... have you said the wrong thing? (I'd forgotten a friend added me to it 2 yrs ago as she thought I'd find it interesting, I turned off notifications after a quick read!)

 

[expanding_horizon]

Has anyone looked at the Land Management FB page (Lisa Schofield) recently? It appears to have vanished? Or have I been banned?

She does remove inactive accounts I think. I also think is currently closed to new joiners.

 

[Lady Jane]

Just looked, It's still there...... have you said the wrong thing? (I'd forgotten a friend added me to it 2 yrs ago as she thought I'd find it interesting, I turned off notifications after a quick read!)

I say very little on the FB site - maybe that was it. Or did she identify me from this thread and chuck me off? I can't see it at all - I thought you could see that a group existed but just not see its contents if it was a closed group. Hey ho, I'll cope! I noticed as I used to have loads of their stuff on my feed and realised a few days ago I hadn't seen anything

 

[SEL]

Has anyone looked at the Land Management FB page (Lisa Schofield) recently? It appears to have vanished? Or have I been banned?

It's still there! She did say a week or so ago she was kicking off anyone who had an inactive account or who had been bitching..... I've no idea if you fit into either of those categories though!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm not a member but I can find the group on FB if I search for it. As a non member I can't access any posts, but that's weird if you can't even see the group.

The more I hear of her the less I'm inclined to join it anyway

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I say very little on the FB site - maybe that was it. Or did she identify me from this thread and chuck me off? I can't see it at all - I thought you could see that a group existed but just not see its contents if it was a closed group. Hey ho, I'll cope! I noticed as I used to have loads of their stuff on my feed and realised a few days ago I hadn't seen anything

Maybe she's banned you, if so then you wont find the group as it's a private group.

 

[Lady Jane]

I conclude I have been banned - the group is invisible to me. I did make a comment a on 12/6 (no idea what?). I reckon someone on this thread split on me - and you would be able to find me via my avatar.
Its my first FB group ban! I did have a thread deleted once for getting into an argument as to whether it was OK to traffic proof your yearling by tying it to a cart and and driving down the road.......

 

[meleeka]

I conclude I have been banned - the group is invisible to me. I did make a comment a on 12/6 (no idea what?). I reckon someone on this thread split on me - and you would be able to find me via my avatar.
Its my first FB group ban! I did have a thread deleted once for getting into an argument as to whether it was OK to traffic proof your yearling by tying it to a cart and and driving down the road.......

Congratulations!

 

[rextherobber]

Has anyone looked at the Land Management FB page (Lisa Schofield) recently? It appears to have vanished? Or have I been banned?

This has happened to me too - assume we just didn't contribute enough? I thought I was there to learn...

 

[millikins]

I'm still on it and hardly ever say anything I do like seeing how other people manage small acreages and keep horses.

 

[claracanter]

I joined this group when we got our own land and I needed information on all sorts of land management issues as a first timer. I don’t think it’s as draconian as some people are saying and who knew that you don’t have to agree with everything you read on the internet !!! Everyone is able to comment on the members posts so some who reply are experienced and some aren’t, some are interesting and some not. It’s a useful resource which has some practical advice. Among other things, I’ve discovered mud mats and a topper I can tow behind my Range Rover (Jeremy clarkson, eat your heart out). I would love to put rotted muck back on my fields but I don’t have the right equipment. A wheel barrow and 10 acres is a bit challenging!!. I think the group is a good resource and with any forum , just like here you will get a variety of opinions that you can take or leave.

 

[Lady Jane]

It's still there! She did say a week or so ago she was kicking off anyone who had an inactive account or who had been bitching..... I've no idea if you fit into either of those categories though!

I don't say much but my only bitch was here