Landowner to "inspect" ground where I hack?!

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MagicMelon

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So I'm in Scotland, where it is legal to go anywhere on foot/horseback etc. Near me is a very large wind farm with a sign at the bottom stating "no horses without permission" which I believe isn't even allowed... So being nice, I wrote the landowner a letter asking if I could ride there and that of course I would respect the usual rules like closing gates etc. He wrote back saying that he knows legally I'm allowed to therefore he has no problem with it however he wants me to tell him by letter when I begin riding up there so he can begin "regularly inspecting" the tracks! Now, I am ONE person with ONE horse - I am not going to be tearing around these tracks like a group of kids on a heap of ponies cutting them up. The tracks are reguarly used by 4x4 trucks to maintain the turbines as it is. My worry is that he will find one horseprint and then send me a request for money to help maintain the tracks or something (yes, he's that sort of person who will do anything for money so I'm told). I also worry that as soon as people see me going up there riding, nearby riders will begin going up there too (I've never seen anyone up there yet but the sign may have put them off) which will result in me getting the blame if they cause any damage. It hard to know what 'damage' he would consider unacceptable. Could he legally ask me to pay or ban me from riding up there (given that I will not cause anything other than some hoof prints (and my horse is unshod!))?
 
I would say he can't without your permission ask you to pay, he admits you are legally allowed to ride, I would say yes of course, starting now and leave it there
 
Given that anyone can ride on it, without telling him, how could he ever prove any damage was caused by you anyway?

I think he is just trying to put you off.
 
I agree with the above, to send you a bill he would have to prove 1) damage and 2) that it was you and not anyone of 1000 other horse riders in the area. I assume there must be some sort of president in the area for land owners charging users of the land for 'damage'
 
Is there a chance he wants to regularly inspect tracks to make sure they are safe for you to hack on?
Maybe he's worried you are going to try and blame him for your horse getting spooked/hurt whilst on these tracks and is protecting himself.
Why assume the worst? Write back and ask why he needs to inspect, in the politest way.
 
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Britestar said:
Is there a chance he wants to regularly inspect tracks to make sure they are safe for you to hack on?
Maybe he's worried you are going to try and blame him for your horse getting spooked/hurt whilst on these tracks and is protecting himself.
Why assume the worst? Write back and ask why he needs to inspect, in the politest way.
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That would bemy assumption.
 
I would just let it drop: they get huge funds and the tracks are there for maintenance he won't take you to court, he just wants to make a point, point being he is a PIA.
 
Bonkers2 said:
I would just let it drop: they get huge funds and the tracks are there for maintenance he won't take you to court, he just wants to make a point, point being he is a PIA.
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The local ones here are padlocked and cattle gridded and almost impossible to enter except with a shetland pony. [kissing gate thing]
 
Dubsie said:
I think he's more likely to fear you will sue him for poorly maintained fence or whatever if you/your horse gets injured. Hence inspecting.
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This was my first thought too. If he wants to inspect it for whatever reason that's up to him. I live in Scotland too & although it is the law, I respect others wishes in respect to their property.
 
I would write him a letter in the sweetest tone you can muster thanking him for his letter and saying you will continue exercising your right as you have done before.
 
I would play ball for now. Unless you are galloping a clydesdale across his land three times a day, you are unlikely to be doing too much damage. I would explain roughly how often you expect to use his land (eg twice a week, once a month) and that you will not be causing any damage.
 
majors said:
Can I just ask are you saying you have the right to ride on any privately owned land/fields etc?
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Yup, we can. I don't though, I always ask as I don't want to fall out with my neighbours! One farmer immediately beside me said I could ride round his stubble fields before he ploughed them, was brilliant. I wouldn't ask the other farmers though, they aren't so approachable and I know they'll say no! The landowner who has the windfarm owns probably 90% of the land round me (I own my field and one farmer owns some, rest are tenants), so he has a huge monopoly. I doubt it's because he cares less about making sure the tracks are safe enough for me to ride round them, he's very wealthy and I don't believe he's that way inclined from all I've heard about him. He refuses to this day to believe the well we get our water from is located in one of his fields saying that if it was he'd be billing me for it - even though its in my deeds that I have every right to it (for free!) and it IS on his land as the council proved, very odd!

Thanks all, I guess I'll write back being nicey nicey and perhaps be slightly patronising in a non-obvious way by saying I'll keep an eye on his tenants livestock and his turbines for him, he he ;) I have to look at the awful turbines all day from my house therefore I feel I definately have a right to get some benefit from them (he doesn't, he lives a few miles away!).
 
Just write back saying ' thank you SO much for being so concerned about my and my horse's safety that you are willing to go to the trouble of inspecting the tracks. I am really touched by your thoughtfulness '
 
majors said:
Can I just ask are you saying you have the right to ride on any privately owned land/fields etc?
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we do in Scotland although its not as cool/horrific (depending on your pov) or as clearcut as it sounds.

I approached a local forestry for the lock combination and was seriously asked if I could not just 'jump' the fence/gate into it. Given that the fence is a double height motorway barrier I declined-they were just worried I would leave the gate open as they'd had some trouble with quads up there.

Another local estate owner would charge us £60 pa to ride there-he didn't have the legal right but he argued that he kept the tracks rideable (he would mow one of them once a summer for his wife). tbh to ride off road on tracks like that on a beautiful estate full of beech woods, burns, hardcore tracks and a 2 mile canter track along a river was more than worth that to me so I paid it no questions.
 
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I also took it as he wants to make sure it's safe and there's no hazards about that you could sue him if you injured yourself on. Also until you have proven you're NOT going to charge about and make a mess of his land I can totally understand why he may wish to keep an eye on things
 
MotherOfChickens said:
we do in Scotland although its not as cool/horrific (depending on your pov) or as clearcut as it sounds.

I approached a local forestry for the lock combination and was seriously asked if I could not just 'jump' the fence/gate into it. Given that the fence is a double height motorway barrier I declined-they were just worried I would leave the gate open as they'd had some trouble with quads up there.

Another local estate owner would charge us £60 pa to ride there-he didn't have the legal right but he argued that he kept the tracks rideable (he would mow one of them once a summer for his wife). tbh to ride off road on tracks like that on a beautiful estate full of beech woods, burns, hardcore tracks and a 2 mile canter track along a river was more than worth that to me so I paid it no questions.
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They can't charge you unless some sort of entry fee was established before the law came in, I don't know if that has been challenged in court yet, it would depend on individual cases. I would probably have paid the money, but protested his right to do so. The BHS should have sorted this out years ago, but they are useless.
 
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Personally I wouldn't respond.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on as long. I go where I wish as long as there isn't lambing/calving going on, I close gates, I don't gallop in pasture, I don't chase livestock and I don't ride up the middle of arable before Harvest so farmers really have no reason to complain.

I have had one farmer be nasty and threaten to get the police and I calmly told him to go ahead. I was on a public right of way at this point, he had wired the gate shut, which is illegal, and said it was private land. Pointed out the green rights of ways sign and told him I'd happily sit here with him and wait on the police. All sorts of noise was made before he drove off. Never heard about it again.

Coming from a Farming background I understand the protectiveness of their livelihoods but some are just cantankerous old men who have refused to join the right century. One round here claims to own a stretch of the Clyde river, he doesn't but anyone with a permit who tries to fish he threatens to shoot or tries to drive over with his range rover. Bat***** crazy some of them lol
 
LJR said:
In Scotland, this is the case - there are exclusions such as lawns etc :)
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So in Scotland a horse rider can enter any farm gate onto any type of land and ride, I am astounded. Do the farmers just hope the riders don't thrash through new planting or standing crops ? I am totally bemused !
 
AdorableAlice said:
So in Scotland a horse rider can enter any farm gate onto any type of land and ride, I am astounded. Do the farmers just hope the riders don't thrash through new planting or standing crops ? I am totally bemused !
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No, you have to respect the countryside and not damage the crop, so no schooling in a field other than a canter round the margins, obviously no damage to crops, and very often the gates are tricky to open anyway, I'd much rather have proper bridleways but apart from old drove roads I don't think there are things like that. Even though riders do have rights of way, it is not easy if farmers lock the gates or fasten so tight only a knife would cut thru, perhaps they should n't but they do. And if your face fits it helps otherwise they may claim "curtilage" to prevent you walking or riding down a track near a house [I have had the local access officer complain to me that I am walking on foot down such a track [said house was empty], obviously my face does not fit.
 
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AdorableAlice said:
So in Scotland a horse rider can enter any farm gate onto any type of land and ride, I am astounded. Do the farmers just hope the riders don't thrash through new planting or standing crops ? I am totally bemused !
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No it is laid out in the access code that you don't do things like that and for instance, avoid ground which is getting churned up / crops etc.

We are lucky in the main in Scotland that there is plenty of suitable ground to ride on. I don't enter any field with stock in unless it has a right of way through it and I don't go on any field except stubble I've specifically checked that it's ok to ride on with the farmer. Courtesy but they cannot stop you (within reason).
 
AdorableAlice said:
So in Scotland a horse rider can enter any farm gate onto any type of land and ride, I am astounded. Do the farmers just hope the riders don't thrash through new planting or standing crops ? I am totally bemused !
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well, not many crops round my way-its all cattle/sheep and forestry. Forestry you can only ride on the tracks anyway as ground will be too dodgy off them (most will have been replanted many times so ground is deep, rutted, full of roots and stumps). Almost all cattle are kept in over winter (and have only just gone out) and only sheep out on the hill-so that opens up both dog walking and horse riding routes but I would never dream of riding anywhere I didn't have permission as these people are my neighbours. Lambing is in full swing atm and some lamb in, some out and again-wouldn't dream of riding through fields of heavily pregnant ewes. The hills are different-they are always there and there's room for all.

A lot of established walks/bike rides won't have horse access anyway-kissing gates etc. Farmers/estate owners are entitled to padlock gates/routes where they are carrying out work and a local estate owner keeps everyone out of everywhere claiming willow harvesting and forestry works all year round.

Anywhere I've stayed up here we've had excellent riding, we do have to share though with walkers/cyclists so there's no being precious about that. The right to roam does not extend to motorised vehicles though.
 
The farmers round here are quite easy going with horse riders so long as we respect their boundaries and their crops. If they tie or padlock a gate it's because the crop is too valuable to risk or they have put bird scarers in there but they will always have other fields open to you. Most leave a horse width strip along the edge for us to keep us off the roads, they are nice like that!

Dog walkers on the other hand have absolutely no respect! I stopped a guy the other day who was playing fetch with 2 collies right across the middle of a freshly sown crop. I explained to him just how much damage he was doing and said that there is the cow pasture field next door that the cows have now vacated for the next 3 months and to use that instead. To be fair to him he was shocked that his 2 dogs could cause so much damage skidding and sliding - bloomin townies! But at least know he has a bit more knowledge to not use freshly sown or crop fields!
 
Bonkers2 said:
They can't charge you unless some sort of entry fee was established before the law came in, I don't know if that has been challenged in court yet, it would depend on individual cases. I would probably have paid the money, but protested his right to do so. The BHS should have sorted this out years ago, but they are useless.
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no I know, but it would have made my life very difficult if I had refused to pay (next door neighbour) and there was really only me and his wife that rode there.
I went to an access meeting about 18 months ago, I was told the BHS no longer has access officers up here-this was a local group (S Lanarkshire) that pre-dated the BHS.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
no I know, but it would have made my life very difficult if I had refused to pay (next door neighbour) and there was really only me and his wife that rode there.
I went to an access meeting about 18 months ago, I was told the BHS no longer has access officers up here-this was a local group (S Lanarkshire) that pre-dated the BHS.
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I think he should be careful, by charging you he might have some legal duty of care, say horse got tangled in wire for example, or something like that. His insurance might well deny responsibility, I think it is very mean of him as well, if he comes to ask for a bale of savings one day be sure to charge cost plus carriage!
The BHS volunteers were probably too scared to commit, it not an easy thing to stand up to farmers or estate owners in one's own area. Certainly seemed like chocolate teapots, the two I have met have done nothing that I am aware of, I was told by the access officer who I had a stable with for a few weeks that there was little hacking locally, yet found some forestry with some degree of access just 200 yards away and another huge area a mile away.
 
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