Landowner to "inspect" ground where I hack?!

Why do some horse riders seem to go out of their way to piss off farmers?

What will it cost to write a nice letter agreeing with everything the man wants? A second class postage stamp? And what harm will that do?

OK, so he seems a bit eccentric -- most of us need to be or we wouldn't farm!

It is not free access, by the way, but free responsible access with conditions attached.

As my old boss, a big land owner, used to say, "You'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar". I expect his gamekeeper or the wind farm operators have raised objections which he wants to counter. Why give them ammunition to stop you? (Don't worry, they can make life very difficult if they want to!).
 
I don't think many go out of their way to be nasty to the farmers but when you have farmers discharging weapons at you for daring to ride on a designated core path/right of way for no reason other than he doesn't like horses then I don't think it's the riders that have a problem.

Most riders I know are pleasant to the local farmers and respect the land, Ive had very few run in as the watch you first few times then once they see you doing no damage they leave you in peace, there are the few however who cannot change their views and to them I say take what you dish out.
 
OP has not gone out of her way to be nasty, she does not need to ask permission, if she wants to she can just reply,, "any time after today or some such". We don't always know who landowner is and have no way to contact them, its supposed to be open access.
I was told by a livery owner that I could not use their new windfarm access path, and for which they got compensation, which is on their land, but should always use the road, also in spite of the fact their livery yard is in the middle of nowhere that there would never be any kind of assistance, I did not take my horse there.
That is typical attitude, give me your money but don't expect me to do anything [she laid a manege for her own horse and thought I would pay for it I suppose.
 
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Dry Rot said:
Why do some horse riders seem to go out of their way to piss off farmers?

What will it cost to write a nice letter agreeing with everything the man wants? A second class postage stamp? And what harm will that do?

OK, so he seems a bit eccentric -- most of us need to be or we wouldn't farm!

It is not free access, by the way, but free responsible access with conditions attached.

As my old boss, a big land owner, used to say, "You'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar". I expect his gamekeeper or the wind farm operators have raised objections which he wants to counter. Why give them ammunition to stop you? (Don't worry, they can make life very difficult if they want to!).
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I don't know what the wind farm operators can object to, all this would be sorted out at the planning stage.
 
Do scottish farmers not have the set aside payments issue with riders using headlands like down here?
 
I haven't read all the posts, so please forgive me if I am repeating something, but could it be that he is risk adverse and doesn't want you to sue him if say your horses puts a foot down a hole? Some insurance companies have clauses that say that if an accident happens on their land due to bad maintenance their public liability if nullified.
 
Black Beastie said:
I don't think many go out of their way to be nasty to the farmers but when you have farmers discharging weapons at you for daring to ride on a designated core path/right of way for no reason other than he doesn't like horses then I don't think it's the riders that have a problem.
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Sorry are you saying you've had a farmer shoot a gun at you? And indeed you say farmers so I can only presume you mean more than one. Attempted murder is a serious charge so I presume all those farmers are in jail.

Or alternatively, I suspect there is another, very different, version of events to yours!
 
Rapidash said:
Sorry are you saying you've had a farmer shoot a gun at you? And indeed you say farmers so I can only presume you mean more than one. Attempted murder is a serious charge so I presume all those farmers are in jail.

Or alternatively, I suspect there is another, very different, version of events to yours!
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Did I state it was at me? It was done to common knowledge and police follow up to someone whilst she was hacking her horse around a local resovior and forestry on a core path. It is only murder or attempted should you be hit or proof shown, apparently saying you happened to be shooting foxes, since the only way to ensure a hit is to shoot into the air, gets you off with discharging a firearm on a farm in Scotland.

The farmer is well known for being malicious.

I myself have bee shot at whilst riding by youths with air rifles whilst out hacking, wish I still had the hat with the pellet mark on it, again police follow up but no leads.
 
canteron said:
I haven't read all the posts, so please forgive me if I am repeating something, but could it be that he is risk adverse and doesn't want you to sue him if say your horses puts a foot down a hole? Some insurance companies have clauses that say that if an accident happens on their land due to bad maintenance their public liability if nullified.
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I think it would be difficult for farmers and estate owners to inspect thousands of hectares of land, there must be an onus on the rider to take care, but this is one reason why I think that anyone charging for access steps in to a grey area.
 
As regards charging for access, I think an owner would have good reason to charge if multiple riders (for example, from a trekking centre) regularly used a track and caused damage to the surface.

People's rights are subject to interpretation which is why I always think it is best to involve the authorities and follow their advice. There is usually a welfare officer, the council (and local councillors), and the BHS (though I agree they are pretty useless!), before deliberately confronting an owner and excising your rights just because you can, as some on here are suggesting.

On a farming forum there was a thread on what to do with horse riders who were riding on what appeared to be stubble. In fact, it was not just stubble but a new crop that had been direct drilled into stubble and unauthorised horse riding was causing significant damage and loss. If the farmer had simply been asked, he could have told them about the crop and directed the riders to where they could ride. It is a simple matter of respect.
 
Black Beastie said:
Did I state it was at me? It was done to common knowledge and police follow up to someone whilst she was hacking her horse around a local resovior and forestry on a core path. It is only murder or attempted should you be hit or proof shown, apparently saying you happened to be shooting foxes, since the only way to ensure a hit is to shoot into the air, gets you off with discharging a firearm on a farm in Scotland.

The farmer is well known for being malicious.

I myself have bee shot at whilst riding by youths with air rifles whilst out hacking, wish I still had the hat with the pellet mark on it, again police follow up but no leads.
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Oh so it was only one farmer shooting vermin near a horse rider as I thought it was probably going to be. Not farmerS "discharging a firearm at you". Even nasty people are innocent until proven guilty.
 
I think if you have neighbouring farmland you'd like to ride on it is only good manners to let your neighbours know that you'd like to. They'll tell you the places they need you to avoid and their reasons will be good ones, in my experience.
Access rights and the 'freedom of the hills' that Scots are brought up to know make Scotland the country that it is - good friends and neighbours are just as valuable! Treasure and respect them both.
 
Rapidash said:
Oh so it was only one farmer shooting vermin near a horse rider as I thought it was probably going to be. Not farmerS "discharging a firearm at you". Even nasty people are innocent until proven guilty.
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I wouldn't normally put in my two sense but wind your neck in.
Farmer or not, there is no excuse to be using a firearm to scare someone or "shut vermin" near them, as you put it.

Although not riding, I was walking the family dog when I was 14 years old. I'd got a bit lost on a track down a field after going too far and found myself confronted with a farmer holding a shotgun telling me & my dog to get off his land. He wasn't holding it at me, but certainly made sure I knew he was holding it. I was terrified, said sorry and quickly ran off.

Again, I was 14.

There is no excuse for such behavior.
 
gembear said:
I wouldn't normally put in my two sense but wind your neck in.
Farmer or not, there is no excuse to be using a firearm to scare someone or "shut vermin" near them, as you put it.

Although not riding, I was walking the family dog when I was 14 years old. I'd got a bit lost on a track down a field after going too far and found myself confronted with a farmer holding a shotgun telling me & my dog to get off his land. He wasn't holding it at me, but certainly made sure I knew he was holding it. I was terrified, said sorry and quickly ran off.

Again, I was 14.

There is no excuse for such behavior.
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I'm taking issue with someone spinning a farmer shooting on his land into farmers taking aim at horse riders. If you fire knowingly near a rider/ dog walker then that is obviously out of order, but not the same thing!

And I'm sorry you were scared but what was he supposed to do with the gun other than point it away from you as you say he did? You say he made sure you knew he had it but it's not like he could have holstered it or something. There is no unthreatening way to hold a gun, especially when someone is having to be unfriendly and order someone to leave.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
no I know, but it would have made my life very difficult if I had refused to pay (next door neighbour) and there was really only me and his wife that rode there.
I went to an access meeting about 18 months ago, I was told the BHS no longer has access officers up here-this was a local group (S Lanarkshire) that pre-dated the BHS.
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I assume you come under BHS Strathclyde and we certainly do have an Access Officer:
http://www.bhs.org.uk/bhs-in-your-area/scotland/strathclyde/strathclyde-committee
 
EventingMum said:
I assume you come under BHS Strathclyde and we certainly do have an Access Officer:
http://www.bhs.org.uk/bhs-in-your-area/scotland/strathclyde/strathclyde-committee
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yes I do, how weird-the access group were adamant the BHS did not have them in Scotland any more (this was 2013, just before I moved this side). tbh the whole meeting was so depressing, I've not been back. I was told I would be refused access to a number of places that I wasn't once I asked politely.
 
Rapidash said:
I'm taking issue with someone spinning a farmer shooting on his land into farmers taking aim at horse riders. If you fire knowingly near a rider/ dog walker then that is obviously out of order, but not the same thing!

And I'm sorry you were scared but what was he supposed to do with the gun other than point it away from you as you say he did? You say he made sure you knew he had it but it's not like he could have holstered it or something. There is no unthreatening way to hold a gun, especially when someone is having to be unfriendly and order someone to leave.
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This farmer is known to police and council access officers as being violent and willingness to discharge his gun around people. There is a case file as thick as you like against him.

Being of a farming background myself I'm well aware of shotgun use so yes wind your neck in rapidash you have no need to have gone off like you have unless you find it acceptable for a farmer to discharge firearms within range of a horse and rider deliberately to scare. This incident was genuine and happened to another poster on here and is well known within the area.
 
Its a health and safety thing, its classed as a work environment, the tracks are used to move equipment and people about and sometimes the tracks can be damaged by the weather, heavy rain etc, the turbines can become damaged in high winds with bits falling off them and they can hold a charge for 30 mins if hit by lightning.
Theyll be worried something happens and you sue, its probably all to minimise risk not keep you out or make you pay but rather find a way to make things work to keep you safe and them having shown theyve done everything practicable to minimise the risk to you.
I think Rhoda McVey is a BHS person who has been involved with access and wind farms, she might be able to steer you in the right direction as to who to speak to and how to work with them
 
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Black Beastie said:
This farmer is known to police and council access officers as being violent and willingness to discharge his gun around people. There is a case file as thick as you like against him.

Being of a farming background myself I'm well aware of shotgun use so yes wind your neck in rapidash you have no need to have gone off like you have unless you find it acceptable for a farmer to discharge firearms within range of a horse and rider deliberately to scare. This incident was genuine and happened to another poster on here and is well known within the area.
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Yet the police let him keep a gun even though they know he's violent? How unusual. Again, you'll excuse me if something still doesn't quite ring true. I've also said above knowingly firing near someone is not acceptable. But you said they were firing at, which is on a whole other level. I've done nothing but be sceptical- which appears to have got under your skin somewhat!
 
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