Lane horse immediately after passing vetting

[[149293]]

Advice wanted. I purchased a horse from a dealer (horse was on sales livery) Booked vetting had to be done with dealers vet as no suitable hard standing at dealers also given two vets to use from dealer.
Horse was vetted I offered x rays if anything came up that was concerning.
horse had a slight dish on one foreleg. I was told this wasn’t an issue. I didn’t see the lunge element because of COVID but was invited to see the ridden element.
Told horse had mildly flat heels but nothing that couldn’t be sorted by good farrier and nothing to worry about. I specifically asked if x rays were needed and I was told no.
Got horse home and lunged and straight away didn’t look right. Much easier to see on lunge than when rider holding horse together. Agreed by physio. Every time he is shod he goes very lame. Although looked like this before my farrier re shod him (Very good farrier used for all vet cases by local practice)
The horse is very toed in on the lame leg and this was not pointed out at vetting. My vets think foot issue so
waiting for MRI. Bute makes no difference.
Any advice ? I feel like I wasn’t given the full picture at the vetting. The vets were also asked specifically to obtain clinical history and they relied upon sellers word it was clear. Sadly when my vets got the history it wasn’t. When I booked the vetting I specifically asked them to check this and they said we know the dealer we will sort it. This wasn’t done.
the vet certificate also didn’t arrive for two weeks.
looks like the wonky foot is causing the lameness and this was pre existing. Any advice? I previously walked away from two other horses as lameness was not something I wanted! Having two already with issues. I wanted a thorough vetting. Having played the sales video of the horse in very slow motion I can see something there from before I brought him. If the scans prove this was pre existing what recourse do I have?

 

[Dyllymoo]

Unfortunately I don't think you have any come back. You used the dealers vet which is unfortunately something that is a big no no when buying a horse (I learnt the hard way on this).

You are really going to struggle to prove that the dealer knew there was an issue with the horse unfortunately. Can you speak to the vet who did the vetting, or at least ask your vet to contact them to discuss it.

When did you buy the horse?

if within a certain timeframe (I cant remember if its 14 days or 30 days you will need to check that) you can send the horse back.

 

[IrishMilo]

Welcome to the world of horses... on a serious note, you have 30 days to send it back. But it's not always easy.

 

[TPO]

When was the vetting done and how long have you had the horse?

Was it 5 stage? I'm assuming so therefore it might be worth getting the bloods ran by your vet?

I had a horse pass a vetting that then went very lame within a week or two. My (then) vet said it was pre existing and told me to report the vetting vet etc. I had a good relationship with the seller and didnt believe this at all. It turned out to be a new and seperate issue that, after investigative surgery, transpired to be a puncture wound that grit got it. Anyway my point is that there was a reporting process via RVCS ombusman type thing. Google will be your friend.

If you are a BHS gold member might also be worth contacting their legal helpline.

Do you have a paper trail with the vetting vets, any emails or texts?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Put a post up on Dodgy Horse Dealers and Sellers asking for advice. They are very good at advising you on your conusmer rights and that particular group does not allow buyer bashing either.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

ETA from my limted understanding, a dealer has to take a horse back if unfit for purpose even if they did not know. A private sale is only not allowed to knowingly mis-sell a horse. Plus your post does not make it clear, but if there is a pre-existing condition, and you specifically asked about it, and they did not tell you, that might make a difference? But you need advice from people who truly understand your rights.

 

[ihatework]

Actually you may have some recourse depending on when the horse was purchased. From both the vet and the seller.

First step is legal advice though. And don’t hang around, go in hard. Limit your spend short term (ie consider if MRI really needed), ultimately your goal is to presumably return horse for refund.

 

[[149293]]

Actually you may have some recourse depending on when the horse was purchased. From both the vet and the seller.

First step is legal advice though. And don’t hang around, go in hard. Limit your spend short term (ie consider if MRI really needed), ultimately your goal is to presumably return horse for refund.

I have videos from the vetting and the sales videos and when watched closely I can actually see the lameness..
currently waiting on an MRI for a full diagnosis.

 

[[149293]]

Unfortunately I don't think you have any come back. You used the dealers vet which is unfortunately something that is a big no no when buying a horse (I learnt the hard way on this).

You are really going to struggle to prove that the dealer knew there was an issue with the horse unfortunately. Can you speak to the vet who did the vetting, or at least ask your vet to contact them to discuss it.

When did you buy the horse?

if within a certain timeframe (I cant remember if its 14 days or 30 days you will need to check that) you can send the horse back.

Even though the videos taken on the day of the vetting show the lameness?

 

[[149293]]

Put a post up on Dodgy Horse Dealers and Sellers asking for advice. They are very good at advising you on your conusmer rights and that particular group does not allow buyer bashing either.

Thank you, good idea but I would rather remain anonymous at the moment

 

[[149293]]

Even though the videos taken on the day of the vetting show the lameness? It’s more the vet I have the issue with. I feel they were not thorough and not entirely straight due to getting lots of work from the dealer

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Thank you, good idea but I would rather remain anonymous at the moment

You can message the admins with your post and ask them to post it on your behalf so you remain anonymous. Alternatively pop the dealers name into the search bar on the dodgy dealer page to see if anyone has had any previous dealings

 

[[149293]]

You can message the admins with your post and ask them to post it on your behalf so you remain anonymous. Alternatively pop the dealers name into the search bar on the dodgy dealer page to see if anyone has had any previous dealings

Brilliant thank you I may just do that !

 

[[149293]]

When was the vetting done and how long have you had the horse?

Was it 5 stage? I'm assuming so therefore it might be worth getting the bloods ran by your vet?

I had a horse pass a vetting that then went very lame within a week or two. My (then) vet said it was pre existing and told me to report the vetting vet etc. I had a good relationship with the seller and didnt believe this at all. It turned out to be a new and seperate issue that, after investigative surgery, transpired to be a puncture wound that grit got it. Anyway my point is that there was a reporting process via RVCS ombusman type thing. Google will be your friend.

If you are a BHS gold member might also be worth contacting their legal helpline.

Do you have a paper trail with the vetting vets, any emails or texts?

5 stage but I don’t think the horse was buted, the lameness doesn’t respond to bute and it was on sales livery. My issue was this was missed at vetting I have the horse on video at the vetting and can now having studied the videos can see the lameness. The vet also admitted after on the phone he was suspicious about that leg! But failed to take me up on the offer of x rays or bother to mention he was suspicious but passed the horse. Since June but this has been going back and forth for a while. It was raised immediately and is with the VDS

 

[Equi]

One issue you may find is that the dealer can now say you have messed with the horse (by shoeing him) but I’m not sure. It will be interesting to see the mri result.

 

[ycbm]

You have a problem. If the dealer did not own the horse, then legally you would normally need to sue the owner, not the dealer, and the sale of goods act does not necessarily apply.

You need proper legal advice pronto.
.

 

[TPO]

Surely if it's a pre-existing condition then the issue is with the vet who did the vetting?

 

[ycbm]

Surely if it's a pre-existing condition then the issue is with the vet who did the vetting?

There are issues with untruths by the seller and possible incompetence by the vet. The OP already has a VDS claim in against the vet and is asking for advice what else to do. If she wants to take any more action, then she needs legal advice. Agency sales are complicated.

 

[[149293]]

Surely if it's a pre-existing condition then the issue is with the vet who did the vetting?

Yes I don’t believe the actual old owner knew to be honest, I think the dealer did, and I think the vetting wasn’t entirely working on my behalf. Too many things went wrong. I guess my question is if I can prove the horse was lame during the vetting even subtlety do I have a case? The vetting was caught on video!

 

[ycbm]

Yes I don’t believe the actual old owner knew to be honest, I think the dealer did, and I think the vetting wasn’t entirely working on my behalf. Too many things went wrong. I guess my question is if I can prove the horse was lame during the vetting even subtlety do I have a case? The vetting was caught on video!

You've already taken a case up with the VDS, you said. So you'll soon know if the VDS thinks you have a valid claim. Obviously of you have video of an indisputably lame horse at the vetting you have a case. Will you update us, please?

 

[[149293]]

You've already taken a case up with the VDS, you said. So you'll soon know if the VDS thinks you have a valid claim. Obviously of you have video of an indisputably lame horse at the vetting you have a case. Will you update us, please?

Yes of course I will

 

[onemoretime]

Hi Horseygirl do you have any news on the outcome of the horse you bought. I hope you can get it sorted, its such a terrible situation to find yourself in, I know Ive been there.

 

[[149293]]

Hi Horseygirl do you have any news on the outcome of the horse you bought. I hope you can get it sorted, its such a terrible situation to find yourself in, I know Ive been there.

So the horse has now had an mri turns out the sidebone is the main culprit.
also turns out this can be seen and felt as it’s big. Horse should have never passed vetting for eventing. Sidebone was never mentioned to me at the vetting either.
It’s been there a while from the mri report and several professionals have said I should be getting all my money back so let’s see. Still heartbreaking as this is a sittuation I set out to avoid having two other lame horses. I am also now attached to him. So cross at the vets that vetted him it’s unreal they sure were not working for me!!

 

[brighteyes]

So the horse has now had an mri turns out the sidebone is the main culprit.
also turns out this can be seen and felt as it’s big. Horse should have never passed vetting for eventing. Sidebone was never mentioned to me at the vetting either.
It’s been there a while from the mri report and several professionals have said I should be getting all my money back so let’s see. Still heartbreaking as this is a sittuation I set out to avoid having two other lame horses. I am also now attached to him. So cross at the vets that vetted him it’s unreal they sure were not working for me!!

Wow - and so...? What happens now? If this was June where do you stand for return and refund? MRI's are jolly expensive aren't they? I hope the VDS come down on your side but the being attached is rubbish. You will feel very torn about casting him out to take his chances.

 

[ycbm]

I've never heard of needing an MRI to spot sidebone which could be felt, surely it should have shown up show on an x ray?
.

 

[Red-1]

I think this may be quite complicated. The horse wasn't purchased from a dealer, it was a private sale through selling livery. It means that you have to prove they lied to you rather than that the horse was simply not able to do the job.

Did you run bloods from the vetting? Presumably the horse was sound in the ridden portion of the vetting, and when you rode the horse to initially try him? Even if a skilled rider had been able to 'ride sound' the horse, you would have felt any lameness?

Do you think the vet was lying, negligent, or could the horse have presented sound at vetting? He did tell you about the dishing, and you pay for their opinion as to whether X rays are needed. If the horse was sound when you rode to try, and looked sound with a rider, then proving it was not sound on the lunge is going to be tough.

An MRI 6 months on, that is a long time after purchase. What did the initial X rays show when you investigated? I also know a lot of horses with sidebone who are sound. Or at least they are sound until the sidebone is huge.

I know how heartbreaking it is when one isn't what you hoped, and I wish you all the luck.

 

[shamrock2021]

It going to be very tricky returning the horse and getting a refund considering it technically a private sale you will have to proof that the issue existed before you bought the horse and that they lied to you. They probably give the horse painkiller. Also how long have you owned the horse the less time the better . I would also be making a complaint to the vet that did the vetting

 

[[149293]]

I've never heard of needing an MRI to spot sidebone which could be felt, surely it should have shown up show on an x ray?
.

The horse had x rays first and it was clear then mri was advised to see if ligaments were involved

 

[[149293]]

It going to be very tricky returning the horse and getting a refund considering it technically a private sale you will have to proof that the issue existed before you bought the horse and that they lied to you. They probably give the horse painkiller. Also how long have you owned the horse the less time the better . I would also be making a complaint to the vet that did the vetting

It’s not a private sale I transferred money to the dealer. Also this is back to the vets that vetted the horse not the dealer as he passed a vetting when he shouldn’t have done
Yes already made the complaint it’s well under way! The extent of the sidebone proves it was here before I brought the horse they don’t appear over night

 

[[149293]]

I think this may be quite complicated. The horse wasn't purchased from a dealer, it was a private sale through selling livery. It means that you have to prove they lied to you rather than that the horse was simply not able to do the job.

Did you run bloods from the vetting? Presumably the horse was sound in the ridden portion of the vetting, and when you rode the horse to initially try him? Even if a skilled rider had been able to 'ride sound' the horse, you would have felt any lameness?

Do you think the vet was lying, negligent, or could the horse have presented sound at vetting? He did tell you about the dishing, and you pay for their opinion as to whether X rays are needed. If the horse was sound when you rode to try, and looked sound with a rider, then proving it was not sound on the lunge is going to be tough.

An MRI 6 months on, that is a long time after purchase. What did the initial X rays show when you investigated? I also know a lot of horses with sidebone who are sound. Or at least they are sound until the sidebone is huge.

I know how heartbreaking it is when one isn't what you hoped, and I wish you all the luck.

i have videos from the vetting and a skilled eye can see it intermittently. Other signs of pain opening mouth tense neck.
The sidebone can be seen in photos from July (now I know what I’m looking for) this didn’t appear over night.
I genuinely feel this vet was not really working for me, but more the seller. The sidebone can clearly be felt too.
the mri shows the extent of the sidebone and that it’s not new. (Not like an injury that could have occurred at any point)

initial x rays show sidebone same as it is now. Yes bloods done but I don’t believe anything was used to cover this up. The horse has the same odd movement on nsaids now